August 2003
- A potential best-seller? Richard A. Bartle
- Identifying Players Scion Altera
- Identifying Players Crosbie Fitch
- Metrics for assessing game design David Kennerly
- ADMIN: Crunch thread J C Lawrence
- Mapping real money into MUD money Alex Chacha
- Mapping real money into MUD money Katie Lukas
- Mapping real money into MUD money David Kennerly
- Mapping real money into MUD money Kent Peterson
- Mapping real money into MUD money Peter Tyson
- Mapping real money into MUD money Matt Mihaly
- Mapping real money into MUD money Paul Canniff
- Research in the Gaming Industry Damion Schubert
- Research in the Gaming Industry Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- Research in the Gaming Industry Richard A. Bartle
- Research in the Gaming Industry Matthew S. Ayres
- Mapping real money into MUD-Money Henrik Johansson
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Ben Chambers
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Ammon Lauritzen
- Java or LPC (DGD)? T. Alexander Popiel
- Java or LPC (DGD)? ceo
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Lars Duening
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Torgny Bjers
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Ryan Underwood
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation J C Lawrence
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation david.l.smith@mail-x-change.com
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Andrew L. Tepper
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Matt Mihaly
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Vincent Archer
- Reputation systems Castronova, Edward
- Reputation systems J C Lawrence
- Mapping real money into MUD-Money Ren Reynolds
- MudDev Faq - part 2 Marian Griffith
- PHP muds Peter Harkins
- PHP muds Torgny Bjers
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Christer Enfors XW {TN/PAC}
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Dave Rickey
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Evan Harper
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Richard A. Bartle
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Tamzen Cannoy
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Richard A. Bartle
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Dave Rickey
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Marc Bowden
- The lack of Creativity and Beauty a game user james_nesfield@nesfieldcapital.com
- Artists and Copyrights Derek Licciardi
- Artists and Copyrights Paolo Piselli
- Artists and Copyrights Marian Griffith
- Artists and Copyrights Paul Dahlke
- Using Windows Scripting Host Owen Matt
- Using Windows Scripting Host F. Randall Farmer
- Using Windows Scripting Host Karl Dyson
- Using Windows Scripting Host Tess Lowe
- Better Game Design through Data Mining David Kennerly
- Better Game Design through Data Mining Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? vladimir cole
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? Martin Bassie
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? Craig H Fry
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? Matt Mihaly
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature ofPersistent Worlds? Michael Tresca
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature ofPersistent Worlds? Baar - Lord of the Seven Suns
- [Fwd: Metrics for assessing game design] ceo
- Examine/Look Elia Morling
- Examine/Look Ammon Lauritzen
- Examine/Look Marc Bowden
- Examine/Look Lars Duening
- Examine/Look Eamonn O'Brien
- [BUS] Account-management systems ceo
- [BUS] Account-management systems Rayzam
- [BUS] Account-management systems Christopher Allen
- Job opportunity on Star Wars Galaxies Koster, Raph
- NCSoft yearly report Mathieu Castelli
- MUD using the .net framework Norman Beresford
- MUD using the .net framework John Buehler
- MUD using the .net framework James F. Bellinger
- MUD using the .net framework Linder Support Team
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Koster, Raph
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Nicolai Hansen
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Daniel Anderson
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Vladimir Cole
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Ren Reynolds
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Nicolai Hansen
- Virtual property lawsuit in China ren@aldermangroup.com
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeff Cole
- Expected value and standard deviation. Scion Altera
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeremy Hill
- Expected value and standard deviation. katie@stickydata.com
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ben Chambers
- Expected value and standard deviation. Zach Collins {Siege}
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ben Chambers
- Expected value and standard deviation. Robert Zubek
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Eamonn O'Brien
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Freeman, Jeff
- Expected value and standard deviation. Zach Collins {Siege}
- Expected value and standard deviation. Bernard Graham
- Expected value and standard deviation. Freeman, Jeff
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeff Cole
- Expected value and standard deviation. Koster, Raph
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Fidelio Gwaihir
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Martin Bassie
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Paul Schwanz
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Koster, Raph
- Expected value and standard deviation. Paul Schwanz
- Expected value and standard deviation. Amanda Walker
- Expected value and standard deviation. John Buehler
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeff Cole
- Expected value and standard deviation. Paul Schwanz
- Expected value and standard deviation. Dr. Cat
- Expected value and standard deviation. David Loving
- Expected value and standard deviation. Pat Ditterline
- Expected value and standard deviation. Michael Chui
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Chanur Silvarian
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Expected value and standard deviation. Oliver Smith
- Expected value and standard deviation. Daniel Anderson
- Expected value and standard deviation. Koster, Raph
- Expected value and standard deviation. Nicolai Hansen
- Expected value and standard deviation. Dark Lamenth
- Expected value and standard deviation. Fidelio Gwaihir
<EdNote: Quoting and attribution fixed>
On Thu, 04 Sep 2003 20:27:12 +0000
Dark Lamenth <lamenth@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Raph Koster writes:
> Players who wish to measure themselves against other players will
> invariably take the fastest road to their objective within the
> reasonable limits of tedium. An environment where PvP conflict
> occurs or frankly any environment where players mainly measure
> themselves against other players is likely to strongly support
> Mr. Koster’s assertions above.
> Example: We all play pac-man. I have a high-score of 2 million
> points, you have a score of 1 million point. You discover that if
> you shuffle between 2 close-by points in pac-man the ghosts will
> never get you. You then shuffle between these 2 points over and
> over for 12 hours to achieve a score of 30 million points. Thus
> advancing in game levels beyond where anyone else has, despite
> your lack of actually experiencing the game.
Excellent analogies. Neither of these methods are not boring. In
the case of the first example, yes I believe this to be the case
.. but ONLY to achieve the goal of competiting with peers that they
wish to compete with, for the purpose of a better gameplay
experience.
In the second example .. well .. this is really more like a
pole-sitting contest. He who hath the greatest endurance, wins. Of
course, it would be BETTER to get that 30 million points the hard
way, which was knowing all of those patterns to the mazes of 99
levels, and having the reflexes to react accordingly.
Advancement is a driving factor in ALL games, but it is NOT
gameplay. Gameplay is the experience itself while you are
advancing, and all advancement should be for the purpose of making
the gameplay more intense, and not easier or more boring.
I was going to cite examples from Everquest .. but I think we all
(mostly anyway) know that one, so I'm not going to beat that horse.
Out of courtesy to Mr. Koster, nor am I going to cite what I
personally think is good or bad gameplay in SWG.
I think at its core, good gameplay is a puzzle .. or puzzle's in
general. Whether they be mental excercises that require few steps
to complete or reaction excercises, because I think they are really
all the same.
The problem with puzzles, is that once solved .. or one cheats and
buys a book for .. they become extremely boring, unless they are
more action based that have variables thrown in to keep the gameplay
fresh. Like .. what do you do when you get 'trained' on the Plane
of Valor? In a sense, the moves that the team executes to de-rail
that train (unless they run like dogs), is a puzzle. Certain moves
will do certain things almost every single time, but the fact that
events such as these are random and unexpected (or so they seem),
make them interesting .. and potentially frustrating. Ah hell, I
cited Everquest.
But even frustrating things can be a part of good gameplay design.
Death's are great at building stress. Losing items is often
regarded as excessive. Corpse runs tick you off .. but they make
you want to get even .. which is .. is that advancement? or is that
problem solving?
I guess really the whole problem with "Advancement" is that it is
being laid out to the game as "THE" problem, in which gamers find
easy solutions for, especially on level or points based systems.
-SGT
- Expected value and standard deviation. Fidelio Gwaihir
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Expected value and standard deviation. gbtmud
- Expected value and standard deviation. Tom "cro" Gordon
- Expected value and standard deviation. Sheela Caur'Lir
- Expected value and standard deviation. Roger Hicks
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Expected value and standard deviation. Freeman, Jeff
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Tom "cro" Gordon