# August 2003

- A potential best-seller?
*Richard A. Bartle* - Identifying Players
*Scion Altera* - Identifying Players
*Crosbie Fitch*

- Identifying Players
- Metrics for assessing game design
*David Kennerly* - ADMIN: Crunch thread
*J C Lawrence* - Mapping real money into MUD money
*Alex Chacha* - Mapping real money into MUD money
*Katie Lukas* - Mapping real money into MUD money
*David Kennerly*

- Mapping real money into MUD money
- Mapping real money into MUD money
*Kent Peterson* - Mapping real money into MUD money
*Peter Tyson*

- Mapping real money into MUD money
- Mapping real money into MUD money
*Matt Mihaly* - Mapping real money into MUD money
*Paul Canniff*

- Mapping real money into MUD money
- Research in the Gaming Industry
*Damion Schubert* - Research in the Gaming Industry
*Kerry Fraser-Robinson* - Research in the Gaming Industry
*Richard A. Bartle* - Research in the Gaming Industry
*Matthew S. Ayres*

- Research in the Gaming Industry

- Research in the Gaming Industry
- Mapping real money into MUD-Money
*Henrik Johansson* - Java or LPC (DGD)?
*Ben Chambers* - Java or LPC (DGD)?
*Ammon Lauritzen* - Java or LPC (DGD)?
*T. Alexander Popiel* - Java or LPC (DGD)?
*ceo* - Java or LPC (DGD)?
*Lars Duening* - Java or LPC (DGD)?
*Torgny Bjers* - Java or LPC (DGD)?
*Ryan Underwood*

- Java or LPC (DGD)?

- Java or LPC (DGD)?
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation
*J C Lawrence* - Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation
*david.l.smith@mail-x-change.com* - Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation
*Brian 'Psychochild' Green* - Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation
*Andrew L. Tepper* - Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation
*Matt Mihaly* - Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation
*Vincent Archer*

- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation

- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation
- Reputation systems
*Castronova, Edward* - Reputation systems
*J C Lawrence*

- Reputation systems
- Mapping real money into MUD-Money
*Ren Reynolds* - MudDev Faq - part 2
*Marian Griffith* - PHP muds
*Peter Harkins* - PHP muds
*Torgny Bjers*

- PHP muds
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
*Christer Enfors XW {TN/PAC}* - Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
*Dave Rickey* - Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
*Evan Harper* - Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
*Richard A. Bartle* - Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
*Tamzen Cannoy* - Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
*Kerry Fraser-Robinson* - Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
*Richard A. Bartle*

- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
*Dave Rickey* - Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
*Marc Bowden*

- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book

- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book
- The lack of Creativity and Beauty a game user
*james_nesfield@nesfieldcapital.com* - Artists and Copyrights
*Derek Licciardi* - Artists and Copyrights
*Paolo Piselli* - Artists and Copyrights
*Marian Griffith* - Artists and Copyrights
*Paul Dahlke*

- Artists and Copyrights
- Using Windows Scripting Host
*Owen Matt* - Using Windows Scripting Host
*F. Randall Farmer* - Using Windows Scripting Host
*Karl Dyson* - Using Windows Scripting Host
*Tess Lowe*

- Using Windows Scripting Host
- Better Game Design through Data Mining
*David Kennerly* - Better Game Design through Data Mining
*Chris "Diamonds" Stewart*

- Better Game Design through Data Mining
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds?
*vladimir cole* - When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds?
*Martin Bassie* - When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds?
*Craig H Fry* - When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds?
*Matt Mihaly* - When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature ofPersistent Worlds?
*Michael Tresca*vladimir cole [mailto:vladimir_cole@yahoo.com] Sent: Saturday,

August 16, 2003 6:00 PM

> When will players be able to expect other players to act with the

> same level of integrity that they would act with out of game?

See my thesis, "The Impact of Anonymity on Disinhibitive Behavior

Through Computer-Mediated Communication":

http://www.msu.edu/user/trescami/thesis.htm

Anonymity is part of the issue. And the fact that it's a game.

Quite simply, not everyone wants to be responsible for their

actions. Indeed, some level of play, down to wolf cubs batting each

other with their paws, is the understanding that no permanent damage

will be done. This is necessary for learning without killing off

our young.

On the other extreme, lack of a real penalty -- a direct way to be

harmed by one's actions -- is an entropic effect on societies. If

there's no repercussions, if at base I will not be imprisoned and

thus physically retained from doing whatever the hell I feel like,

there is eventually anarchy. If a game's society can't influence

you when you log off, it's ability to influence you ends when you

flip the switch. Period.

Somewhere between those two extremes are people with very strong

'Net presences. These folks have, for all intents and purposes, the

"cross-game Avatar" you're looking for. Certainly, "Talien" is as

much an identity of what I do online as Michael Tresca. I have a

vested interested in maintaining some level of that personality's

integrity. Thus, I'm less likely to be a persistently offensive

jerk (opinions vary >:) ) without regard for the online social

repercussions that would come about as a result of my behavior.

> Think about the cottage industries that would spring up around the

> idea of persistant, cross-world avatars. Numerous companies would

> jockey for the opportunity to provide an online reputation system

> modelled on the ebay seller feedback system.

> Would this ever happen?

No. Cross MUD compatibility has been around forever. If it was

such a great idea, all MUDs would be connected in one massive

network of intergame functionality right now.

RetroMUD doesn't do it. Why? Because we don't TRUST the other guy.

It's that simple. We don't trust they have the same ethics, game

development techniques, belief system, etc. No game company wants

to dilute its brand with another developer that spawns a legion of

twinked "avatars" from CrapMUD, where they give out equipment for

free.

> Is the population of players who want a solid reputation system

> that they can trust of greater monetary value to game designers

> than the segment of players who want simply to escape their

> dullard real-world personnas and act out their psycho-griefer

> fantasies online? (That's harsh -- I know -- so to put it another

> way, would a game developer's support for a persistent avatar

> standard net more accounts than it would lose?)

No. Because lack of respect for anonymity is often derived from

lack of understanding of one's anonymity of self and others. In

other words, sometimes I act like a jerk because I don't know who

YOU are and sometimes I act like a jerk because you don't know who

*I* am. Two very different groups.

In short, I don't think the majority of gamers share your view. If

the majority doesn't share your view, it's not worth spending money

on.

> When will the first MMOG launch that mandates biometric

> identification in order to control and use an avatar?

I guess this is a rhetorical question because you took a pretty big

leap from the last question to this one. Who says biometrics are

good? Who says personal identification for a character that's a

"bad guy" -- hell, even a "gray guy" -- is good?

To put it another way -- if my character kills Chewbacca on Star

Wars Online, should I have to fear for my life (i.e., real life

repercussions) for doing so? Did you know that R.A. Salvatore got

DEATH THREATS because he killed off Chewbacca in one of the Star

Wars books?

Are you going to ensure that if I PK a guy tomorrow, it won't affect

my job standing in my company? Will it show up in my next

interview?

Anonymity is a deal with the devil. Too much, and you have anarchy.

Too little, and you are accountable in ways that aren't very fun.

> Biometric verification seems to be a natural choice to quash the

> deleterious effects of ebay on informal, in-game trust

> systems. I'm guessing early 2007 on this just to throw out a date.

Biometrics exist now. IBM uses them for their laptops, if I

remember correctly.

> When will the first MMOG launch that supports avatar names that

> were created in a different MMOG system? (2015 is my guess.)

I have no idea. But there must be incentive to do so. I don't see

that incentive coming about any time soon.

> And when will people feel that it's the right thing to do MORALLY

> to behave in these worlds in the same way that they behave outside

> of virtual worlds?

What's the right way to morally behave? Your way? My way? The

majority's way? Or the people who have the power -- the coding

staff, the guild leaders, etc.?

It comes down to this: games, right or wrong, have a particular way

that the maximum enjoyment will be experienced by the majority of

people. To achieve this balance, they need people intent on playing

the GAME, not PLAYING the game.

Right now, the ONLY filter to indicate that you want to play a game

is the ability to pay. This patently does not stop children from

playing, who are often (but certainly not always) griefers. Until

MMORPGs stop accepting anybody with a credit card, the amount of

griefing and immaturity will never change. When developers

recognize that they are responsible not just for the game's creation

but the formative stages of its social structure, when they realize

you can't just code it into the system but must cultivate it with

the "right" players, then you'll see less griefing.

> Are virtual worlds doomed to this level of disconnection forever?

By definition, a virtual world IS disconnected. If it's not

disconnected, it's no longer virtual.

Doomed? No. Likely to be disconnected forever? Yes, at least in

the way you're defining it. Anonymity is part of the fun, despite

its abuse.

Should you be playing in what amounts to a huge sandbox with a

million strangers crammed into it? That's probably not compatible

with your style of play. You may want to find another game.

Mike "Talien" Tresca

RetroMUD Administrator

http://michael.tresca.net - When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature ofPersistent Worlds?
*Baar - Lord of the Seven Suns*

- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature ofPersistent Worlds?

- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds?
- [Fwd: Metrics for assessing game design]
*ceo* - Examine/Look
*Elia Morling* - Examine/Look
*Ammon Lauritzen* - Examine/Look
*Marc Bowden*

- Examine/Look
- Examine/Look
*Lars Duening* - Examine/Look
*Eamonn O'Brien*

- Examine/Look
- [BUS] Account-management systems
*ceo* - [BUS] Account-management systems
*Rayzam* - [BUS] Account-management systems
*Christopher Allen*

- [BUS] Account-management systems
- Job opportunity on Star Wars Galaxies
*Koster, Raph* - NCSoft yearly report
*Mathieu Castelli* - MUD using the .net framework
*Norman Beresford* - MUD using the .net framework
*John Buehler* - MUD using the .net framework
*James F. Bellinger* - MUD using the .net framework
*Linder Support Team*

- MUD using the .net framework
- Virtual property lawsuit in China
*Koster, Raph* - Virtual property lawsuit in China
*Nicolai Hansen* - Virtual property lawsuit in China
*Daniel Anderson* - Virtual property lawsuit in China
*Kerry Fraser-Robinson*

- Virtual property lawsuit in China
- Virtual property lawsuit in China
*Vladimir Cole* - Virtual property lawsuit in China
*Ren Reynolds* - Virtual property lawsuit in China
*Nicolai Hansen* - Virtual property lawsuit in China
*ren@aldermangroup.com*

- Virtual property lawsuit in China

- Virtual property lawsuit in China

- Virtual property lawsuit in China
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Jeff Cole* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Scion Altera* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Jeremy Hill*

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*katie@stickydata.com* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Ben Chambers* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Zach Collins {Siege}* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Ben Chambers* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Robert Zubek* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Kwon J. Ekstrom* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Eamonn O'Brien* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Kwon J. Ekstrom*

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Freeman, Jeff* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Zach Collins {Siege}*

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Bernard Graham* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Freeman, Jeff* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Jeff Cole* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Koster, Raph* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Katie Lukas* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Fidelio Gwaihir* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Katie Lukas*

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Matt Mihaly* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Martin Bassie* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Katie Lukas* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Matt Mihaly* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Paul Schwanz* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Matt Mihaly*

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Koster, Raph* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Paul Schwanz* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Amanda Walker* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*John Buehler*

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Kwon J. Ekstrom* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Jeff Cole* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Paul Schwanz*

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Dr. Cat* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*David Loving* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Pat Ditterline* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Michael Chui* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Matt Mihaly*

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Kwon J. Ekstrom*

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Chanur Silvarian* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Katie Lukas* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com*

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Oliver Smith*

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Daniel Anderson* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Koster, Raph* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Nicolai Hansen*

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Dark Lamenth* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Fidelio Gwaihir*

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Ola Fosheim GrĂ¸stad* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*gbtmud* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Tom "cro" Gordon* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Sheela Caur'Lir* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Roger Hicks* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Ola Fosheim GrĂ¸stad*

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Freeman, Jeff*

- Expected value and standard deviation.

- Expected value and standard deviation.
- Expected value and standard deviation.
*Matt Mihaly* - Expected value and standard deviation.
*Tom "cro" Gordon*

- Expected value and standard deviation.