August 2003
- A potential best-seller? Richard A. Bartle
- Identifying Players Scion Altera
- Identifying Players Crosbie Fitch
- Metrics for assessing game design David Kennerly
- ADMIN: Crunch thread J C Lawrence
- Mapping real money into MUD money Alex Chacha
- Mapping real money into MUD money Katie Lukas
- Mapping real money into MUD money David Kennerly
- Mapping real money into MUD money Kent Peterson
- Mapping real money into MUD money Peter Tyson
- Mapping real money into MUD money Matt Mihaly
- Mapping real money into MUD money Paul Canniff
- Research in the Gaming Industry Damion Schubert
- Research in the Gaming Industry Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- Research in the Gaming Industry Richard A. Bartle
- Research in the Gaming Industry Matthew S. Ayres
- Mapping real money into MUD-Money Henrik Johansson
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Ben Chambers
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Ammon Lauritzen
- Java or LPC (DGD)? T. Alexander Popiel
- Java or LPC (DGD)? ceo
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Lars Duening
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Torgny Bjers
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Ryan Underwood
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation J C Lawrence
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation david.l.smith@mail-x-change.com
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Andrew L. Tepper
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Matt Mihaly
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Vincent Archer
- Reputation systems Castronova, Edward
- Reputation systems J C Lawrence
- Mapping real money into MUD-Money Ren Reynolds
- MudDev Faq - part 2 Marian Griffith
- PHP muds Peter Harkins
- PHP muds Torgny Bjers
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Christer Enfors XW {TN/PAC}
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Dave Rickey
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Evan Harper
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Richard A. Bartle
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Tamzen Cannoy
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Richard A. Bartle
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Dave Rickey
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Marc Bowden
- The lack of Creativity and Beauty a game user james_nesfield@nesfieldcapital.com
- Artists and Copyrights Derek Licciardi
- Artists and Copyrights Paolo Piselli
- Artists and Copyrights Marian Griffith
- Artists and Copyrights Paul Dahlke
- Using Windows Scripting Host Owen Matt
- Using Windows Scripting Host F. Randall Farmer
- Using Windows Scripting Host Karl Dyson
- Using Windows Scripting Host Tess Lowe
- Better Game Design through Data Mining David Kennerly
- Better Game Design through Data Mining Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? vladimir cole
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? Martin Bassie
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? Craig H Fry
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? Matt Mihaly
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature ofPersistent Worlds? Michael Tresca
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature ofPersistent Worlds? Baar - Lord of the Seven Suns
- [Fwd: Metrics for assessing game design] ceo
- Examine/Look Elia Morling
- Examine/Look Ammon Lauritzen
- Examine/Look Marc Bowden
- Examine/Look Lars Duening
- Examine/Look Eamonn O'Brien
- [BUS] Account-management systems ceo
- [BUS] Account-management systems Rayzam
- [BUS] Account-management systems Christopher Allen
- Job opportunity on Star Wars Galaxies Koster, Raph
- NCSoft yearly report Mathieu Castelli
- MUD using the .net framework Norman Beresford
- MUD using the .net framework John Buehler
- MUD using the .net framework James F. Bellinger
- MUD using the .net framework Linder Support Team
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Koster, Raph
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Nicolai Hansen
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Daniel Anderson
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Vladimir Cole
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Ren Reynolds
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Nicolai Hansen
- Virtual property lawsuit in China ren@aldermangroup.com
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeff Cole
- Expected value and standard deviation. Scion Altera
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeremy Hill
- Expected value and standard deviation. katie@stickydata.com
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ben Chambers
- Expected value and standard deviation. Zach Collins {Siege}
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ben Chambers
- Expected value and standard deviation. Robert Zubek
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Eamonn O'Brien
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Freeman, Jeff
- Expected value and standard deviation. Zach Collins {Siege}
- Expected value and standard deviation. Bernard Graham
- Expected value and standard deviation. Freeman, Jeff
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeff Cole
- Expected value and standard deviation. Koster, Raph
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Fidelio Gwaihir
From: Katie Lukas <katie@stickydata.com>
> And Raph Koster wrote:
>> Jeff Cole wrote:
>> I don't think it's in the Laws, but I've always treated it as a
>> Law:
>> Players will do the boring thing rather than the fun thing,
>> if they advance faster that way.
>> As a corollary:
>> There's no way to get rid of the "boring" way to play your
>> game. Players can always choose to play conservatively to
>> maximize return while minimizing risk.
...
> When the players themselves focus solely on the details, game
> designers have failed. When the players are unable to see the
> game as a holistic idea, one that either appeals or does not, the
> designers have failed. When the questions and answers involve
> mathematical equations rather than what is honestly interesting
> about a game, the designers have *especially* failed. Are most
> current games derived from D&D-style play? Yes, of course. But
> why do we not use the technology and the talent at hand to
> abstract those concepts? Why do we have gamers behaving as if the
> game is actually rolling dice rather than immersing themselves in
> the world?
> "No way to get rid of the 'boring' way." If I believed that, I
> would be neither playing nor designing games - what could the
> reason to do so possibly be?
Hello everyone. Well, I really wanted to be left alone in a quiet
little corner and digest some of these nuggets of wisdom to gain
some insight into the world of game design .. but this thread
started off as being somewhat disturbing to me, as a player, when it
was inferred that mathematics is a property of good 'gameplay'
design.
Please, feel free to slap me back into my corner. I do not wish to
offend or anything, as I am only a novice and a consumer and not a
devloper. My experience, however, derives from spending lots of
time in arcades when I was 10 years old .. when pinball machines
were 25 cents a game, and you got 5 balls for that quarter .. and
'video games' didn't exist quite yet. From there through Pong,
Advent, AD&D and everything in between regardless of platform to my
latest drug of choice, which is SWG.
In anycase. I've always felt that psycology was a more appropriate
science to serve as a foundation of good 'gameplay'.
Advancement is the 'point' or the goal that is meant to be achieved
through good gameplay but advancement in of itself is not the single
most deciding factor in what constitutes good gameplay.
Now, granted, 'advancement' can take many forms .. it can be points
racked up on a pinball machine, getting to stage 99 in Pac Man, or
even becomming a Master Bounty Hunter in SWG .. but the 'gameplay'
itself is something entirely different.
The way I look at it is to describe it as stress over time. An
appropriate amount of stress over an appropriate amount of time, but
the longer times making for more compelling and addictive gameplay.
Especially if the stress levels can rise over time approprately
without causing undue frustration to the player (too often).
Complexity of the moves needed to negotiate an encounter is also a
factor, but in reality this is more of a function of the 'stress'
but I felt worthwhile mentioning because repetitive tasks that yield
sparsely awarded advancements that are appropriate enough to make
the player want to continue in order to get the next advancement, is
not good gameplay design.
I don't know, maybe its me. But then again I'm one of those folks
that consider himself to be a 'real gamer' and not some d00d.
d00d's are about power and image, gamers are about the challenge and
the skill. I'm old school arcade, and having to be 'twitchy' also
constitutes a good game in my opinion.
Personally, my favorite designer is Shigeru Miyamoto .. and if ya
can figure out how he does it, then I'd say you have about the best
grasp you can get on what contitutes good gameplay.
-SGT - Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Martin Bassie
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Paul Schwanz
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Koster, Raph
- Expected value and standard deviation. Paul Schwanz
- Expected value and standard deviation. Amanda Walker
- Expected value and standard deviation. John Buehler
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeff Cole
- Expected value and standard deviation. Paul Schwanz
- Expected value and standard deviation. Dr. Cat
- Expected value and standard deviation. David Loving
- Expected value and standard deviation. Pat Ditterline
- Expected value and standard deviation. Michael Chui
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Chanur Silvarian
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Expected value and standard deviation. Oliver Smith
- Expected value and standard deviation. Fidelio Gwaihir
- Expected value and standard deviation. Daniel Anderson
- Expected value and standard deviation. Koster, Raph
- Expected value and standard deviation. Nicolai Hansen
- Expected value and standard deviation. Dark Lamenth
- Expected value and standard deviation. Fidelio Gwaihir
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Expected value and standard deviation. gbtmud
- Expected value and standard deviation. Tom "cro" Gordon
- Expected value and standard deviation. Sheela Caur'Lir
- Expected value and standard deviation. Roger Hicks
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Expected value and standard deviation. Freeman, Jeff
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Tom "cro" Gordon