August 2003
- A potential best-seller? Richard A. Bartle
- Identifying Players Scion Altera
- Identifying Players Crosbie Fitch
- Metrics for assessing game design David Kennerly
- ADMIN: Crunch thread J C Lawrence
- Mapping real money into MUD money Alex Chacha
- Mapping real money into MUD money Katie Lukas
- Mapping real money into MUD money David Kennerly
- Mapping real money into MUD money Kent Peterson
- Mapping real money into MUD money Peter Tyson
- Mapping real money into MUD money Matt Mihaly
- Mapping real money into MUD money Paul Canniff
- Research in the Gaming Industry Damion Schubert
- Research in the Gaming Industry Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- Research in the Gaming Industry Richard A. Bartle
- Research in the Gaming Industry Matthew S. Ayres
- Mapping real money into MUD-Money Henrik Johansson
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Ben Chambers
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Ammon Lauritzen
- Java or LPC (DGD)? T. Alexander Popiel
- Java or LPC (DGD)? ceo
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Lars Duening
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Torgny Bjers
- Java or LPC (DGD)? Ryan Underwood
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation J C Lawrence
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation david.l.smith@mail-x-change.com
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Andrew L. Tepper
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Matt Mihaly
- Reputation systems: a possible path for investigation Vincent Archer
- Reputation systems Castronova, Edward
- Reputation systems J C Lawrence
- Mapping real money into MUD-Money Ren Reynolds
- MudDev Faq - part 2 Marian Griffith
- PHP muds Peter Harkins
- PHP muds Torgny Bjers
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Christer Enfors XW {TN/PAC}
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Dave Rickey
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Evan Harper
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Richard A. Bartle
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Tamzen Cannoy
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Richard A. Bartle
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Dave Rickey
- Slashdot story about review of Bartle's new book Marc Bowden
- The lack of Creativity and Beauty a game user james_nesfield@nesfieldcapital.com
- Artists and Copyrights Derek Licciardi
- Artists and Copyrights Paolo Piselli
- Artists and Copyrights Marian Griffith
- Artists and Copyrights Paul Dahlke
- Using Windows Scripting Host Owen Matt
- Using Windows Scripting Host F. Randall Farmer
- Using Windows Scripting Host Karl Dyson
- Using Windows Scripting Host Tess Lowe
- Better Game Design through Data Mining David Kennerly
- Better Game Design through Data Mining Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? vladimir cole
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? Martin Bassie
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? Craig H Fry
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature of Persistent Worlds? Matt Mihaly
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature ofPersistent Worlds? Michael Tresca
- When Will Player-Avatar Integrity Be a Feature ofPersistent Worlds? Baar - Lord of the Seven Suns
- [Fwd: Metrics for assessing game design] ceo
- Examine/Look Elia Morling
- Examine/Look Ammon Lauritzen
- Examine/Look Marc Bowden
- Examine/Look Lars Duening
- Examine/Look Eamonn O'Brien
- [BUS] Account-management systems ceo
- [BUS] Account-management systems Rayzam
- [BUS] Account-management systems Christopher Allen
- Job opportunity on Star Wars Galaxies Koster, Raph
- NCSoft yearly report Mathieu Castelli
- MUD using the .net framework Norman Beresford
- MUD using the .net framework John Buehler
- MUD using the .net framework James F. Bellinger
- MUD using the .net framework Linder Support Team
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Koster, Raph
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Nicolai Hansen
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Daniel Anderson
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Kerry Fraser-Robinson
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Vladimir Cole
- Virtual property lawsuit in China Ren Reynolds
On 28 August 2003 at 01:59 Daniel Anderson wrote:
> Is this the first time this has happened?
I'm not aware of any other cases. There was the start of a suit
against SOE over EverQuest sales, but as far as I am aware it never
went anywhere, and I have not tracked down who actually started it.
On 26 August 2003 18:37 Nicolai Hansen wrote:
> But with all this ebay trading of online characters, virtual
> equipment are getting close to having a real money value. So in
> one way the Red Moon company made this poor guy lose money. They
> can probably hide behind an EULA though ;)
Virtually all virtual items are not legally property. So the value
that they have in practice has an odd status. Certainly under
Western law a player could not take action against a games company
for the destruction of items and the consequential financial loss
that they the player would suffer. This is because the player does
not actually own the items in the first place even though others may
be prepared to give them money for them, so legally speaking there
is no loss.
Though I'd be interested in seeing the transcript of the 'trial'
that Ted Castranova reported on though to see the views express
there.
The EULA point is very interesting and one where the law might
apply. In my view most of the words about ownership of stuff in many
EULAs are at best meaningless, Though in some cases I suspect that
under US law some EULA sections represent 'misuse of copyright' and
would be actionable by a player against a games company. Though
while such an action might in theory work (note the player would not
have to demonstrate harm just that the legal principle of trying to
restrict certain actions through extent of copyright had been
violated) I guess that such an action would be economically
untenable.
Lastly I've just started looking at item sales, with the following
perspective: If virtual items are not owned - then isn't selling
something that you do not have legal title to called fraud ?
On 26 August 2003 18:37 Nicolai Hansen wrote:
> Got me thinking ;) It was on this list there was some debate about
> taxation of online values, wasn't it?
Yes. I think it was concluded that like stocks and shares the
taxable value only has meaning when items are realized - though as I
noted above I'm not sure about the legal status of such a
realization.
Ren
www.renreynolds.com - Virtual property lawsuit in China Nicolai Hansen
- Virtual property lawsuit in China ren@aldermangroup.com
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeff Cole
- Expected value and standard deviation. Scion Altera
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeremy Hill
- Expected value and standard deviation. katie@stickydata.com
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ben Chambers
- Expected value and standard deviation. Zach Collins {Siege}
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ben Chambers
- Expected value and standard deviation. Robert Zubek
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Eamonn O'Brien
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Freeman, Jeff
- Expected value and standard deviation. Zach Collins {Siege}
- Expected value and standard deviation. Bernard Graham
- Expected value and standard deviation. Freeman, Jeff
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeff Cole
- Expected value and standard deviation. Koster, Raph
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Fidelio Gwaihir
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Martin Bassie
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Paul Schwanz
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Koster, Raph
- Expected value and standard deviation. Paul Schwanz
- Expected value and standard deviation. Amanda Walker
- Expected value and standard deviation. John Buehler
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Jeff Cole
- Expected value and standard deviation. Paul Schwanz
- Expected value and standard deviation. Dr. Cat
- Expected value and standard deviation. David Loving
- Expected value and standard deviation. Pat Ditterline
- Expected value and standard deviation. Michael Chui
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Expected value and standard deviation. Chanur Silvarian
- Expected value and standard deviation. Katie Lukas
- Expected value and standard deviation. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Expected value and standard deviation. Oliver Smith
- Expected value and standard deviation. Daniel Anderson
- Expected value and standard deviation. Koster, Raph
- Expected value and standard deviation. Nicolai Hansen
- Expected value and standard deviation. Dark Lamenth
- Expected value and standard deviation. Fidelio Gwaihir
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Expected value and standard deviation. gbtmud
- Expected value and standard deviation. Tom "cro" Gordon
- Expected value and standard deviation. Sheela Caur'Lir
- Expected value and standard deviation. Roger Hicks
- Expected value and standard deviation. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Expected value and standard deviation. Freeman, Jeff
- Expected value and standard deviation. Matt Mihaly
- Expected value and standard deviation. Tom "cro" Gordon