February 1998
- OT: Following in the footsteps of JCL Alex Oren
- OT: Following in the footsteps of JCL Nathan Yospe
- OT: Following in the footsteps of JCL Richard Woolcock
- OT: Following in the footsteps of JCL Chris Gray
- OT: Following in the footsteps of JCL coder@ibm.net
- OT: Following in the footsteps of JCL Marc Eyrignoux
- Ada? Andrew C.M. McClintock
- Monthly FAQ posting Koster, Raph
- Monthly FAQ posting Adam Wiggins
- Monthly FAQ posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Chris Gray
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting J C Lawrence
- Monthly FAQ Posting J C Lawrence
- Monthly FAQ Posting Alex Oren
- Monthly FAQ Posting Greg Miller
- Monthly FAQ Posting s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling Lo
- Monthly FAQ Posting Koster, Raph
- Monthly FAQ Posting Ling Lo
- Monthly FAQ Posting Greg Miller
- Monthly FAQ Posting Marian Griffith
- Monthly FAQ Posting Greg Miller
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- Databases Shawn Halpenny
- Databases coder@ibm.net
- Databases T. Alexander Popiel
- Databases Dream Weaver at home
- Databases Laurent Bossavit
- Databases Kevin Littlejohn
- Databases J C Lawrence
On Tue, 18 Jan 2000 13:28:02 +1100
Kevin Littlejohn <darius@connect.com.au> wrote:
> Others: gadfly (python-based, if you know the layout of your
> tables it's probably fastest, but equates out to having all data
> in memory at all times), mSQL (dunno, haven't looked at it for a
> long time), Oracle (overblown, slower than MySQL, but by $DIETY it
> does everything, including 'connected by', which would be a _joy_
> to use - provides for object hierarchies really nicely),
> PostgreSQL (which _does_ look nice, and has some nifty tricks that
> may help on the OO side... But which I couldn't fathom large
> object/blob support for, so I gave up early). The list goes on,
> of course... ;)
FYI there are various links in the Library at Kanga.Nu ot DB and
storage mechanisms. The Free DB list is also referenced (it's been
the food for a variety of threads here for such things as persistent
stores ala Texas, transactional models ala TDBM etc.
> There _are_ OO-specific databases out there - Oracle have recently
> (with 8i, I think) started adding an OO layer to their stuff, so
> you can treat things as 'objects' inside the db, and let oracle
> work out how to map that best. That's hackish, I suspect, but
> presumably works into their XML support as well. Would not the
> OODBMS's of this world put you a good way toward this?
Direct representation of objects and object heriarchies in a DB is
only part of the problem, and in my case one of the smaller and
simpler parts of the problem. The problem for me, and for several
of the other OO oriented servers on the list, is that none of the
OODMBSes support runtime morphism of the object heirarchy. Its a
large and non-trivial problem. I'm aware of efforts being made in
academia in the area, but nothing that I consider is actually usable
at this point.
> My attitude is still that databases do some things really well -
> storing data, and for relationals, working out what links to what
> - and while they may not be _ideal_ for muds, the chance of any
> given mud thrashing any given database is still pretty slim at the
> moment. It seems as though db's are generally a win over flat
> text files, so even if you use them as a strange sort of disk
> space, they're a win - let alone abstracting and playing with some
> of the other tricks they'd allow.
I agree. While an RDBMS ala SQL is arguably not optimal for the
runtime support of a MUD DB, it offers direct and useful advantages
for world analysis, game balance maintenance, and other back-end
operations.
Consider the advantages from an admin perspective if you could query
your MUD ala:
Of those characters that have killed Bubba, what were the most
frequent spells and weapons as compared to the most effective
used in total damage to Bubba?
How many players have attempted quest XYZ, and what was the
average distribution of times required for them to solve it?
How many characters encountered object XYZ and then were found in
location QRS within T time later?
How does player motion in terms of routes across the game world
vary by time of day?
Given sufficient logging trails in an RDBMS (and SQL as a well known
framework to access it), you can both answer queries like these, and
attempt to do useful things with the results.
--
J C Lawrence Home: claw@kanga.nu
----------(*) Other: coder@kanga.nu
--=| A man is as sane as he is dangerous to his environment |=--
- Databases J C Lawrence
- OT: This is a test coder@ibm.net
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- Moore's Law sucks (was: 3D graphics) Brandon J. Rickman
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- Moore's Law sucks (was: 3D graphics) Alex Oren
- Version Control (was: DBs and Events) Vadim Tkachenko
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- Version Control (was: DBs and Events) Vadim Tkachenko
- Version Control (was: DBs and Events) coder@ibm.net
- Version Control (was: DBs and Events) coder@ibm.net
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- Version Control (was: DBs and Events) Raph & Kristen Koster
- Version Control (was: DBs and Events) coder@ibm.net
- Version Control (was: DBs and Events) Felix A. Croes
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Jon Leonard
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) coder@ibm.net
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Vadim Tkachenko
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Chris Gray
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) J C Lawrence
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) J C Lawrence
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Adam Wiggins
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Chris Gray
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Vadim Tkachenko
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Chris Gray
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Vadim Tkachenko
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Chris Gray
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Adam Wiggins
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Chris Gray
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) J C Lawrence
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Chris Gray
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Adam Wiggins
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Ben Greear
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Adam Wiggins
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) Jon A. Lambert
- Net protocols for MUDing (was: Moore's Law sucks) J C Lawrence
- VEIL (was: Clients) Brandon Gillespie
- LDMs (large dynamic maps) was Unique items Mike Sellers
- Describing the environment Stephen Zepp
- Describing the environment Richard Woolcock
- Back on the list Niklas Elmqvist
- Back on the list Chris Gray
- Back on the list coder@ibm.net
- Unique items The Eternal City
- Unique items coder@ibm.net
- Position sorting Adam Wiggins
- Position sorting coder@ibm.net
- Unique items coder@ibm.net
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- BOOK: Myer's Silverlock coder@ibm.net
- BOOK: Myer's Silverlock Chris Gray
- BOOK: Myer's Silverlock Adam Wiggins
- Dynamic Loading of Modules (was: Back on the list) Niklas Elmqvist
- Dynamic Loading of Modules (was: Back on the list) Vadim Tkachenko
- Dynamic Loading of Modules (was: Back on the list) J C Lawrence
- Dynamic Loading of Modules (was: Back on the list Jon A. Lambert
- Net protocols for MUDing s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Net protocols for MUDing Stephen Zepp
- Net protocols for MUDing Chris Gray
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- Dynamic Loading of Modules Niklas Elmqvist
- Senses (was: The MLI Project) s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- bar-time (was The MLI Project) Mike Sellers
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- 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project) J C Lawrence
- 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project) Michael Hohensee
- 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project) Miroslav Silovic
- 3D engines for MUDs (was: The MLI Project) Michael Hohensee
- Why not compile java into object code? Ben Greear
- Why not compile java into object code? Cynbe ru Taren
- Why not compile java into object code? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Why not compile java into object code? Nathan F Yospe
- Why not compile java into object code? Niklas Elmqvist
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- Why not compile java into object code? Jon A. Lambert
- Why not compile java into object code? Travis Casey
- Why not compile java into object code? Chris Gray
- Tutorial: Comments on Hand-crafting a compiler Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part I: Introduction Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part II: Expression Parsing Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part I: Introductio Chris Gray
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part I: Introductio s001gmu@nova.wright.edu
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part I: Introductio coder@ibm.net
- MUD Development Digest Dr. Cat
- MUD Development Digest Koster, Raph
- MUD Development Digest Mike Sellers
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part III: More Expressions Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part IV: Interpreters Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part V: Control Constructs Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part VI: Boolean Expressions Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Comments Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part VII: Lexical Scanning Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part VIII: A Little Philosophy Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part IX: A Top View Jon A. Lambert
- Tutorial: Let's build a Compiler! - Part X: Introducing TINY Jon A. Lambert
- Compilers: Toy available for ftp Chris Gray