August 2004
- What is an MMOG? ceo
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Mike Rozak
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Otis Viles
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Richard A. Bartle
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Scott Tengelin
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Dana V. Baldwin
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series David Kennerly
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Ghilardi Filippo
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series zgj22@drexel.edu
- Books on Virtual Worlds Matt Cruikshank
- DGN: Requesting feedback on a "concept document" (somewhat related to Better Combat) Craig Huber
- The Casual-Player Killer: Time? (was MMO Communities) Will Jennings
- The Casual-Player Killer: Time? (was MMO Communities) Amanda Walker
- The Casual-Player Killer: Time? (was MMO Communities) Michael Sellers
- [BIZ] CoH subscribers numbers Ghilardi Filippo
- [DGN] Socialization against the fun [was: MMO Communities] HRose
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Fwd: Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) kennerly@finegamedesign.com
- Time debt Stephen McDonald
- Fwd: Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) kennerly@finegamedesign.com
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) David Kennerly
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) David Kennerly
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) David Kennerly
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paul Schwanz
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) cruise
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) ceo
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) ceo
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) cruise
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) ceo
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) cruise
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paul Schwanz
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) KaVir@t-online.de (Richard Woolcock)
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Derek Larson
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (keyword: archetypes) Eric Random
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (keyword: archetypes) Paolo Piselli
- ADMIN: Effective progress methods for MUD-Dev (was Better Combat (long)) J C Lawrence
- FW: Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPGavatar[was:Long-Term Rewards] vladimir cole
- Asynchronous Event Execution & Localizing Brian Lindahl
- database design Lazarus
- database design Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- database design Lazarus
- database design
- [DGN] database design Steven King
- database design Erik Bethke
- database design Sean Kelly
- database design Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Artur Biesiadowski
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Vladimir Cole
- PVP and perma-death Vladimir Cole
- PVP and perma-death Artur Biesiadowski
- PVP and perma-death Steven King
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Steven King
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Douglas Goodall
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death [NEW THEME] After Deployment Tiago Carita
- PVP and perma-death Paul Schwanz
- PVP and perma-death J C Lawrence
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Koster, Raph
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death ceo
- PVP and perma-death Michael Sellers
- PVP and perma-death Matt Mihaly
- PVP and perma-death Douglas Goodall
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Derek Licciardi
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death J C Lawrence
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Michael Sellers
- PVP and perma-death Byron Ellacott
- PVP and perma-death J C Lawrence
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] William Leader
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Stephen McDonald
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] David Kennerly
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] J C Lawrence
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] David Kennerly
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Koster, Raph
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] J C Lawrence
- ADMIN: Effective progress methods for MUD-Dev Jim Purbrick
- The Great Scam J C Lawrence
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG J C Lawrence
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG Koster, Raph
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG Douglas Goodall
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG J C Lawrence
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG David Kennerly
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG Megan Fox
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Matthew Rick
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Brian Hook
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations ceo
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Sean Middleditch
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Paul Schwanz
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Jason Lai
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations J C Lawrence
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations HRose
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations J C Lawrence
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Megan Fox
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations J C Lawrence
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations HRose
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Brian Miller
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Michael Sellers
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Michael Hartman
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Brian Miller
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Chris Duesing
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Douglas Goodall
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations J C Lawrence
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] William Leader
- On balance and reality Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On balance and reality William Leader
- On balance and reality Koster, Raph
- On balance and reality Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On balance and reality HRose
- On balance and reality Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On balance and reality Vladimir Cole
- On balance and reality William Leader
- On balance and reality William Leader
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Koster, Raph
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Gedanken
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Koster, Raph
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] HRose
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Koster, Raph
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Matthew Dobervich
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Mike Rozak
- text based MUD Codebases, which one to pick? mirjam.eladhari@interactiveinstitute.se
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Douglas Goodall
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Steven King
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Michael Hartman
- Complexity and Accessibility (was: Better Combat (long)) Will Jennings
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system Matthew Rick
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system cruise
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system Artur Biesiadowski
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system HRose
- "a nicer species" (from today's Chronicle) (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Davion Kalhen
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Alex Arnon
- Distributed State Systems Davion Kalhen
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Alex Arnon
- Distributed State Systems Alex Arnon
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Bruce Mitchener
- Distributed State Systems Michael Hartman
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Thomas Tomiczek
- Distributed State Systems Brian Lindahl
- Complexity and Accessibility Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Paolo Piselli
- wherefor in-game artists? Richard A. Bartle
- wherefor in-game artists? Sean Howard
- wherefor in-game artists? David Kennerly
Sean Howard wrote:
> "Richard A. Bartle" <richard@mud.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 01 September 2004, Paolo Piselli wrote:
>>> Where, if anywhere, do creative types fall in Bartle's player
>>> types
>> It depends why they are creating. It's possible to conceive of
>> people creating for reasons that fit into any of the player
>> types.
> The problem with your player types is that you describe results,
> rather than motivations. People can have the same effective
> behaviors but for very different reasons.
I think all four can be, too, but, for an odd, or at least
long-winded reason, which is based on semi-motivation model.
I have had a curiosity with Bartle types that led to a weird
opinion. I failed overcome the laziness, so have not disproven my
faulty opinion. Certainly not enough to study of psychology.
Instead, maybe I can just find a psychologist to beat it out of my
head with much less work. :)
My curiosity began with the title: "Hearts, Clubs, Diamonds, Spades:
Players Who Suit MUDs" (http://www.mud.co.uk/richard/hcds.htm).
These, of course, are four suits of cards. These four suits of
playing cards were derived from the four suits of the Tarot deck.
Correspondences being:
Tarot :: Suit
Cups :: Hearts
Wands :: Clubs
Disks :: Diamonds
Swords :: Spades
The Tarot deck was, among many things, a lexicon of medieval
alchemy. These alchemists studied how to transform a leaden
personality into a golden personality. That is, how to adjust the
four elements in the persona, or the three alchemical essences of
Sulphur, Salt, and Mercury, in order to change their motivation and
improve character. Turn lead into gold, or as Foucault might call
it, the technologies of the self.
Some alchemy included a theory of personal relationships, in which
the ancient four elements were ascribed correspondences to
personality types. These alchemical elementary personalities are:
Element :: Alchemical personality
Water :: Entertaining and emotionally subtle.
Fire :: Energetic and party-loving and emotionally dominant.
Earth :: Traditional, and intellectually subtle.
Air :: Investigative, thought-provocative, and intellectually dominant.
There is also a correspondence from the elements to the Greek Gods,
which the Greeks believed were origins of mortal personality. A
Greek might say Apollo speaks through me, etc.
Element :: Greek god
Water :: Apollo
Fire :: Dionysus
Earth :: Epimetheus
Air :: Prometheus
Which gives the correspondence to personality as:
Greek god :: Alchemical personality
Apollo :: Entertaining and emotionally subtle.
Dionysus :: Energetic and party-loving and emotionally dominant.
Epimetheus :: Traditional, and intellectually subtle.
Prometheus :: Investigative, thought-provocative, and intellectually dominant.
Much of their utility comes in seeing how various elements interact,
as tendencies for social and/or sexual chemistry. These were
encoded into the Tarot deck, which gives us three columns of
correspondences:
Element :: Tarot :: Suit :: Greek god
Water :: Cups :: Hearts :: Apollo
Fire :: Wands :: Clubs :: Dionysus
Earth :: Disks :: Diamonds :: Epimetheus
Air :: Swords :: Spades :: Prometheus
Carl Jung studied alchemy. From them he refined some proposals of
personality attitudes and functions. From Jung, Myers-Briggs based
the Myers-Briggs Type Indicator (MBTI), which retains some
correspondences from alchemical elements:
Element :: Myers-Briggs (MBTI)
Water :: Intuitive-Feeling (NF)
Fire :: Sensing-Perceiving (SP)
Earth :: Sensing-Judging (SJ)
Air :: Intuitive-Thinking (NT)
Keirsey (http://www.keirsey.com/) designated four temperaments of
the sixteen in MBTI. These corresponsences continue:
Element :: Myers-Briggs (MBTI) :: Keirsey
Water :: Intuitive-Feeling :: Idealists
Fire :: Sensing-Perceiving :: Artisans
Earth :: Sensing-Judging :: Guardians
Air :: Intuitive-Thinking :: Rationals
By knowing the origin and the original meaning of the tarot to the suit of a
playing card, one may further correspond the tarot to the MBTI:
Element :: Tarot :: MBTI :: Suit
Water :: Cups :: NF :: Hearts
Fire :: Wands :: SP :: Clubs
Earth :: Disks :: SJ :: Diamonds
Air :: Swords :: NT :: Spades
Rearranging suits to alchemical personality thus:
Suit :: Alchemical personality
Hearts :: Entertaining and emotionally subtle.
Clubs :: Energetic and party-loving and emotionally dominant.
Diamonds :: Traditional, and intellectually subtle.
Spades :: Investigative, thought-provocative, and intellectually dominant.
This then is not a far cry from a correspondence between Bartle
types and personalities:
Bartle :: Alchemical personality
Socializers :: Entertaining and emotionally subtle.
Killers :: Energetic and party-loving and emotionally dominant.
Achievers :: Traditional, and intellectually subtle.
Explorers :: Investigative, thought-provocative, and intellectually dominant.
So, this would imply the following correspondences:
MBTI :: Bartle
NF :: Socializer
SP :: Killer
SJ :: Achiever
NT :: Explorer
A few years ago, I asked Erwin Andreasen about this correspondence
(http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2001Q3/msg00794.php). He
tabulated several results from an informal quiz on a Bartle Quotient
(http://www.andreasen.org/bartle/nstats.cgi). Aggregating these
four temperaments and doing correspondences yields:
MBTI Total Achvr Kllr Explrr Sclzr
NF 34% 27% 24% 31% 46%
SP 08% 09% 10% 07% 08%
SJ 13% 17% 15% 12% 12%
NT 45% 47% 51% 50% 35%
Sum 100% 100% 100% 100% 100%
Normalizing from the total in each Myers-Briggs Type, we see the
modal correspondences are:
MBTI :: Bartle
NF :: Socializer (1.36)
SP :: Killer (1.29)
SJ :: Achiever (1.31)
NT :: Killer (1.12), Explorer (1.09)
The correspondence suggests isomorphism, except for the NT
temperament, Rationals. All but one match, and the one that does
not is the least statistically significant, it is a difference of
1%. This shows bias in my opinion, the self-selected respondents,
or the mapping of the questions. Probably my opinion.
A couple other interesting third conjecture comes to mind. That is
that being online, which is dominated by NT in this test (46% !),
which has a tendency for intellectual domination, could express this
through cleverness online, which the test might detect any form of
domination as killer tendency. Another is that some players may
have a tendency to embody a separate online personality than
offline. And another conjecture is that killers have more fun (Amy
Jo Kim).
The conclusion of this weird belief, is my tendency to substitute
(NT, SJ, NF, SP) instead of (E, A, S, K), since I'm more familiar
with its use, history, and the relationships between MBTI
personalities. Of course, any stone, with enough stock, can be
turned into soup. I'm just pitching one more pebble in. :)
All that was a long-winding road to get to an answer of the question
"wherefor in-game artists?": Therefore, a player could create art to
entertain, dominate, trade, or provoke.
That's all in theory. In practice, I'm not sure what the
distribution of artist personalities are in a computer-mediated
community. I haven't encountered evidence to disprove the opinion,
but haven't encountered evidence to prove it either. In editing a
library of player art and literature
(http://www.darkages.com/community/body_library.html), I felt that
various artists were doing it for different reasons and that their
art, or literature, was intended to have these different effects:
entertainment, domination, trade, provoke.
David
(INTP, SEA) - wherefor in-game artists? ceo
- wherefor in-game artists? David Kennerly
- wherefor in-game artists? Richard A. Bartle
- wherefor in-game artists? Paolo Piselli
- wherefor in-game artists? Richard A. Bartle
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Richard A. Bartle
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? David Kennerly
- wherefor in-game artists? Robert Zubek
- wherefor in-game artists? Matt Mihaly
- wherefor in-game artists? Christopher Allen
- wherefor in-game artists? Matt Mihaly
- wherefor in-game artists? Christopher Allen
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Douglas Goodall
- wherefor in-game artists? Christopher Allen
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Christopher Allen
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Koster, Raph
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Koster, Raph
- wherefor in-game artists? Douglas Goodall