August 2004
- What is an MMOG? ceo
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Mike Rozak
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Otis Viles
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Richard A. Bartle
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Scott Tengelin
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Dana V. Baldwin
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series David Kennerly
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Ghilardi Filippo
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MEDIA: .hack//SIGN Japanise animated series zgj22@drexel.edu
- Books on Virtual Worlds Matt Cruikshank
- DGN: Requesting feedback on a "concept document" (somewhat related to Better Combat) Craig Huber
- The Casual-Player Killer: Time? (was MMO Communities) Will Jennings
- The Casual-Player Killer: Time? (was MMO Communities) Amanda Walker
- The Casual-Player Killer: Time? (was MMO Communities) Michael Sellers
- [BIZ] CoH subscribers numbers Ghilardi Filippo
- [DGN] Socialization against the fun [was: MMO Communities] HRose
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Fwd: Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) kennerly@finegamedesign.com
- Time debt Stephen McDonald
- Time debt Eva Lapáèková
- Time debt Gin and tonic
- Time debt OWEN, Matt, FM
- Time debt (keywords: automation, contract systems) Eric Random
I've read the posts on time-debt so far, and I think it should be
pointed out that it seems Steve's original post was attempting to
solve the problem of managing excessive downtime, or perhaps even
mundane time (given its reference to training and repetitive
crafting), by shifting it off-line. My initial understanding is that
I don't think he's necessarily attempting to manage excessive
character progress, although that's what could ultimately occur with
his sytem. As Cruise and Lai point out, perhaps the best way of
handling excessive character progress (as opposed to excessive
on-line time) is with a long-term endurance attribute. I would
agree, and I have a specific implementation I could discuss, but it
may be diverging from the original idea.
When I read Steve's post, I saw mainly two points: off-line
automation and a contract system.
Many actions in an RPG have time costs associated with them. Some of
these actions are mundane and repetitive. One could take these
actions off-line or automate them on-line. If taken off-line, the
character can continue the automation, or if the game engine has no
automation capability, log-off in a particular location which
converts off-line time into the desired action, had it been
automated (for example, log off in a school to accrue learning a new
skill). I think on- and off-line automation is a discussion of it's
own. I think this is what Steve is getting at. Automated or not
automated, it's a mundane action that takes time to accomplish. This
time cost, is, ultimately, what Steve views as a time debt, but
instead of actually doing the action, it's time cost is abstracted
down into an absolute duration of the action which is implemented as
a time-debt.
I've explored this before, and as a design element, I would agree
with aspects of Steve's time-debt in games where automation does not
exist. For example, a character wants to learn a new skill. Like
learning all things, it requires time for instruction, instead of
simply saying I want this or that skill, spending some abstract
skill points, and "acquiring" a skill, which is, perhaps, less
fictionally consistent. Exploring fictional consistency in learning
new skills is actually how I wound up at this example. There is a
reasonably simple skill I want to learn which requires 1 hr of
instruction and I could accrue an hour of instruction in one of two
ways: I could sit in the instruction room for one hour, chatting
away with other people, or I could log off in that room for one
hour. Although Steve was more focused specifically on off-line
accrual, I don't know if he meant online as well. Concerning this
specific example, do you think players will spend that time on-line
in some mundane activity, or choose to off-line it? How will this
affect fundamental design goals, like fostering socialization? I'm
just trying to clarify here so I won't get into this aspect because
that's a post in itself!
Further, Steve discusses not just learning, or crafting, but
training as well. I see this as pick a skill, pick a skill level,
log off for x amount of time, and ding! character's ready for
go-go-go! In my perspective, the go-go-go -is- the training. Getting
from one skill level, or simply gaining experience (ie. training) is
often the driving force of go-go-go. Spending your time crafting
something for experience is the same as heading out to the forest
and slaying orcs. I think perhaps the issue here is that crafting is
seen as more mundane than battle. Perhaps the solution is not
avoiding mundane forms of training, but perhaps making it more
engaging. Avoidance is certainly an option, as some RPG's get rid of
crafting altogether and push the workload onto NPC's, which I think,
is continuing along the lines of fictional inconsistency, but that's
my opinion. That's not a "bad" thing, though, as you focus on what
your are attempting to achieve, and in some RPG's, crafting is not
apart of the overall design goal.
The contract system, on the other hand, is perhaps from an
extrapolation of the automation, and this is where I see Steve's
post discuss more, perhaps, towards on-line automation. For example,
one type of simple on-line automation is a store clerk. I need
someone to stand here in this same spot and sell my wares. Pretty
mundane. Easily automated. But it's work, and I'll pay that person
for their service (in comes a contract system). This same thing
could be applied to non-interactive off-line "automation" such as
construction, as is Steve's example. I've explored contract systems
and they can get quite complex. I'd love to discuss contract systems
more, but that's another post.
- Time debt (keywords: automation, contract systems) Eric Random
- Time debt cruise
- Fwd: Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) kennerly@finegamedesign.com
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) David Kennerly
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) David Kennerly
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) David Kennerly
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paul Schwanz
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paolo Piselli
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) cruise
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) ceo
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) ceo
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) cruise
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) ceo
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) cruise
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) Paul Schwanz
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (was Better Combat) KaVir@t-online.de (Richard Woolcock)
- Cognitively Interesting Combat Derek Larson
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (keyword: archetypes) Eric Random
- Cognitively Interesting Combat (keyword: archetypes) Paolo Piselli
- ADMIN: Effective progress methods for MUD-Dev (was Better Combat (long)) J C Lawrence
- FW: Deriving Self Esteem from one's MMORPGavatar[was:Long-Term Rewards] vladimir cole
- Asynchronous Event Execution & Localizing Brian Lindahl
- database design Lazarus
- database design Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- database design Lazarus
- database design
- [DGN] database design Steven King
- database design Erik Bethke
- database design Sean Kelly
- database design Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Artur Biesiadowski
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Vladimir Cole
- PVP and perma-death Vladimir Cole
- PVP and perma-death Artur Biesiadowski
- PVP and perma-death Steven King
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Steven King
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Douglas Goodall
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death [NEW THEME] After Deployment Tiago Carita
- PVP and perma-death Paul Schwanz
- PVP and perma-death J C Lawrence
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death Koster, Raph
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death ceo
- PVP and perma-death Michael Sellers
- PVP and perma-death Matt Mihaly
- PVP and perma-death Douglas Goodall
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Derek Licciardi
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death J C Lawrence
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PVP and perma-death HRose
- PVP and perma-death Michael Sellers
- PVP and perma-death Byron Ellacott
- PVP and perma-death J C Lawrence
- PVP and perma-death Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] William Leader
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Stephen McDonald
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] David Kennerly
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] J C Lawrence
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] David Kennerly
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Koster, Raph
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] J C Lawrence
- ADMIN: Effective progress methods for MUD-Dev Jim Purbrick
- The Great Scam J C Lawrence
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG J C Lawrence
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG Koster, Raph
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG Douglas Goodall
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG J C Lawrence
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG David Kennerly
- [MEDIA] Finding an Interesting Middle Path in the RPG Megan Fox
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Matthew Rick
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Brian Hook
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations ceo
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Sean Middleditch
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Paul Schwanz
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Jason Lai
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations J C Lawrence
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations HRose
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations J C Lawrence
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Megan Fox
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations J C Lawrence
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations HRose
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Brian Miller
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Michael Sellers
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Michael Hartman
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Brian Miller
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Chris Duesing
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations Douglas Goodall
- SOC DGN - Spawn locations J C Lawrence
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] William Leader
- On balance and reality Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On balance and reality William Leader
- On balance and reality Koster, Raph
- On balance and reality Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On balance and reality HRose
- On balance and reality Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- On balance and reality Vladimir Cole
- On balance and reality William Leader
- On balance and reality William Leader
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Koster, Raph
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Gedanken
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Koster, Raph
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] HRose
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Koster, Raph
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Matthew Dobervich
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Mike Rozak
- text based MUD Codebases, which one to pick? mirjam.eladhari@interactiveinstitute.se
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Douglas Goodall
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Steven King
- Casual Crowd vs.Time Rich Crowd [was: Time Debt] Michael Hartman
- Complexity and Accessibility (was: Better Combat (long)) Will Jennings
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system Matthew Rick
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system cruise
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system Artur Biesiadowski
- SOC DGN: AC like alligiance system HRose
- "a nicer species" (from today's Chronicle) (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Davion Kalhen
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Alex Arnon
- Distributed State Systems Davion Kalhen
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Alex Arnon
- Distributed State Systems Alex Arnon
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Bruce Mitchener
- Distributed State Systems Michael Hartman
- Distributed State Systems Michael Tindal
- Distributed State Systems Thomas Tomiczek
- Distributed State Systems Brian Lindahl
- Complexity and Accessibility Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Paolo Piselli
- wherefor in-game artists? Richard A. Bartle
- wherefor in-game artists? Sean Howard
- wherefor in-game artists? David Kennerly
- wherefor in-game artists? ceo
- wherefor in-game artists? David Kennerly
- wherefor in-game artists? Richard A. Bartle
- wherefor in-game artists? Paolo Piselli
- wherefor in-game artists? Richard A. Bartle
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Richard A. Bartle
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Robert Zubek
- wherefor in-game artists? Matt Mihaly
- wherefor in-game artists? Christopher Allen
- wherefor in-game artists? Matt Mihaly
- wherefor in-game artists? Christopher Allen
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Douglas Goodall
- wherefor in-game artists? Christopher Allen
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Christopher Allen
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Koster, Raph
- wherefor in-game artists? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- wherefor in-game artists? Koster, Raph
- wherefor in-game artists? Douglas Goodall