August 1997
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Koster, Raph
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Martin Keegan
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Richard Woolcock
- New Topic: Butthead features Martin Keegan
- New Topic: Butthead features coder@ibm.net
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Brandon Cline
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Koster, Raph
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Martin Keegan
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Adam Wiggins
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- PirateMUD and CSL Niklas Elmqvist
- PirateMUD and CSL Chris Gray
- PirateMUD and CSL Koster, Raph
- PirateMUD and CSL clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- PirateMUD and CSL Jon A. Lambert
- PirateMUD and CSL clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- PirateMUD and CSL clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Michael Hohensee
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Cynbe ru Taren
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Michael Hohensee
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Shawn Halpenny
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/perspectives Koster, Raph
- Ultima Online/Generalized AI Koster, Raph
- Reputation, was butthead features Koster, Raph
- Reputation, was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- Reputation, was butthead features Koster, Kristen
- Reputation, was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- Reputation, was butthead features Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/perspectives Jeff Kesselman
- Generalized AI Resend Koster, Raph
- Generalized AI Resend clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Interview with Richard Bartle clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Generalized AI last try! Koster, Raph
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Chris Gray
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Michael Hohensee
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Michael Hohensee
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Jon Leonard
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Jeff Kesselman
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Chris Gray
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Michael Hohensee
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Cynbe ru Taren
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Richard Woolcock
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Nathan Yospe
- Mud Languages Greg Munt
- MUD languages Chris Gray
- MUD languages clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Mud Languages Nathan Yospe
- Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Mud Languages Greg Munt
- Mud Languages Captain Burrito
- Mud Languages Miroslav Silovic
- Mud Languages Cynbe ru Taren
- Mud Languages Jeff Kesselman
- Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Mud Languages clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mud Languages coder@ibm.net
- Mud Languages Jeff Kesselman
- Mud Languages clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- sorry, cut off, was PirateMUD and CSL Koster, Raph
- Introduction Dan Armstrong
- Introduction clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Introduction John G.
- Introduction clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Introduction Dan Armstrong
- Introduction clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Introduction Michael Hohensee
- Mud Languages (Introesque) ##Make Nylander
- Mud Languages (Introesque) ##Make Nylander
- Mud Languages (Introesque) Nathan Yospe
- Quad-trees/Oct-trees Michael Hohensee
- Quad-trees/Oct-trees Dan Armstrong
- node-based 3D coord systems Nathan Yospe
- Signing off... Brandon Van Every
- The 'Socialiser' problem Greg Munt
- The 'Socialiser' problem Nathan Yospe
- The 'Socialiser' problem Greg Munt
- The 'Socialiser' problem Nathan Yospe
- The 'Socialiser' problem Greg Munt
- The 'Socialiser' problem Nathan Yospe
- The 'Socialiser' problem Matt Chatterley
- The 'Socialiser' problem Chris Gray
- The 'Socialiser' problem Jeff Kesselman
- The 'Socialiser' problem Miroslav Silovic
- The 'Socialiser' problem Martin Keegan
- The 'Socialiser' problem Matt Chatterley
- The 'Socialiser' problem clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Release out! Chris Gray
- Dots in a name? Martin Keegan
- Dots in a name? Chris Gray
- Dots in a name? Matt Chatterley
- Dots in a name? Martin Keegan
- Dots in a name? Matt Chatterley
- Dots in a name? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Languages: "strong" vs "weak" Chris Gray
- porting question Chris Gray
- New to this mailing list Richard Woolcock
- New to this mailing list Chris Gray
- New to this mailing list Matt Chatterley
- New to this mailing list Richard Woolcock
- New to this mailing list Chris Gray
- New to this mailing list Marian Griffith
- New to this mailing list Martin Keegan
- New to this mailing list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New to this mailing list Jeff Kesselman
- New to this mailing list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New to this mailing list Jon A. Lambert
- New to this mailing list Jeff Kesselman
- New to this mailing list Jon A. Lambert
- NPC Ecologies [was 'New to this mailing list'] Greg Munt
- DemonScape clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Evolution of The Mud Tree Greg Munt
- OT: Invite Batzing? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Finding Space Michael Hohensee
- Finding Space Shawn Halpenny
- Finding Space Nathan Yospe
- Finding Space Chris Gray
- Finding Space Ned Lovely
- Finding Space Ned Lovely
- Finding Space Chris Gray
- Finding Space Nathan Yospe
- Finding Space Michael Hohensee
- Finding Space clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: test Odysseus Laertes
- Fuzion - RPG game system Jon Lambert
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution Dan Shiovitz
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Koster, Raph
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- OT: test Jon A. Lambert
- Fuzion Jon A. Lambert
- (subject missing) Maddog Worlds
- Fuzion - Game System Jon A. Lambert
- Fuzion - Game System Frank Crowell
- Fuzion - Game System Jeff Kesselman
- Fuzion - Game System Jeff Kesselman
- Fuzion - Game System Jon A. Lambert
- Fuzion - Game System Jeff Kesselman
- legal mumbo jumbo Jeff Kesselman
- Bladder Control Jeff Kesselman
- Bladder Control Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Collision Detection Cynbe ru Taren
- Looking for books... Greg Munt
- Looking for books... Jeff Kesselman
- Looking for books... Cynbe ru Taren
- Looking for books... Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Looking for books... Jeff Kesselman
- Looking for books... Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Looking for books... Jeff Kesselman
- Looking for books... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Looking for books... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Looking for books... coder@ibm.net
- Looking for books... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Looking for books... coder@ibm.net
- Looking for books... Jon A. Lambert
- Looking for books... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Re: Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Felix A. Croes
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Chris Gray
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution ##Make Nylander
- Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Character evolution Chris Gray
- Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Maddy
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Ned Lovely
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Chris Gray
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution The Eternal City
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution The Eternal City
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Brian Price
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Shawn Halpenny
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment Richard Woolcock
- Alignment Jeff Kesselman
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment Matt Chatterley
- Alignment Jeff Kesselman
- Alignment Matt Chatterley
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
On 8 Sep 97 at 10:25, clawrenc@cup.hp.com wrote:
> In <199709050330.WAA27771@dfw-ix12.ix.netcom.com>, on 09/04/97
> at 09:51 PM, "Jon A. Lambert" <jlsysinc@ix.netcom.com> said:
>
> It started life as a polemic against Good necessarily being the winner
> in the initially referenced election.
I see. The assumption of my election was that of a RP environment.
I also see good and evil as relative issues here. The reverse could
be true, Evil might be predisposed to win in certain races.
> Spooky? I had not expected my posts to haunt the place. <fading
> scream>
There were many fleeting shades of ideas that lurked within that
post. You have given these wraiths more solid forms this time
around. Now I can attempt to make grisly sport of these former
ghosts.
> Yep, I'm heading for several items:
>
> 1) There has been much discussion here of social and political
> systems which attempt thru game-internal mechanisms to shadow or
> emulate their counterparts in RL. I now strongly doubt if this will
> work with a GOP player base as the motivation is so massively
> different from the motivation of the players in the RL structures.
Is it? This depends on your views of how the RL counterparts
operate. I'm cynical enough to view both as gameplay with similar
motivations. You might be correct in assuming some parody of RL will
result in a such a game. If you throw in the RP aspect, maybe
not. There is an amount of gamesplay or showmanship aspect to RPing
also. Many RPers (no not all) have strong desires for "visibility"
or "lead roles". Both player types are human after all. Considering
that an RPer has to depend on game simulations to cooperate with them
in my system, they will of necessity have to adopt gameplay
strategies to achieve positions their character's desire. The
strategies that are most in character for the position will be most
productive.
Surely one can tie GOP into a realistic economic game. It's been
done outside of muddom. Object of the game is to make the most
money. How about "Tradewars" for example? It's simplistic but could
be made more realistic and complex. In a political game the goal
becomes king/emperor/master of the universe. Remove the concept of
killing monsters. Make it a game of pure political power. Are you
really sure a game of just politics could not resemble RL in any
satisfying degree? If one assumes we can get a reasonable facsimile
of realistic combat in a traditional HNS mud in a GOP game, why not
other arenas?
> 2) For the RP tainted, Evil would seem a heck of a lot more fun to
> play with than Good. As I mentioned, who remembers Keaton in Batman?
> Who remembers Jack in the same movie? Who ware more "fun"? This has
> some interesting extensions even if you move away from Good/Evil
> contructs. Deconstructionalists are a *lot* more enjoyable to play
> with than contructionists -- same principle at heart as Good/Evil. In
> the game Lemmings, in a lot of ways it was a lot more fun obliterating
> the poor wee beasties, and putting them thru terrible trials and
> intricate traps than it was hauling their sorry arses to the door to
> get to the next level.
Definitely. Destruction can be fun. My RPing experience is about
50/50 on both sides. Although I know dozens of players who won't
even consider this side of RP. I suspect with the anonymity of the
net the players willing to play evil for the thrill or fun is MUCH
larger than ftf play. Perhaps this parallels the netsex phenomenon;
this explicit activity was rare in ftf play. I don't try to prevent
it (unnaturally that is). In certain areas/cities traditional "evil"
has the advantage of great but short-term gratification and short
lifespan, while good has the less but more long-term gratification
and longer lifespan. The essence of traditional evil is selfishness.
This eventually tends to piss off other players socially including
other evil ones. Eventually these are reflected in game play.
Is it not realistic to expect the masses of simpeeps to be "good" or
follow the ideals of "good" especially in civilized areas?
> 3) Games atttempt to define goals. This is implicit in the
> definition of a game as consisting of goals, barriers, and freedoms.
> Its tough to ensure that the goals you attempt to design as a
> game-designer in a MUD are really going to be the goals your players
> assign themselves. Bartle approached this area in his MUD survey with
> his panning and dimissing of the Tiny-* clan as not games but merely
> over-designed telephones.
I will reread Bartle. I don't remember disagreement with much of
what he said on the tactical design level. However, his
generalizations were based on a userbase that was "typical" net
population. Both of us are performing a bit of "pruning" on
prospective playerbases.
[snipped Chris "abusing" Tron]
I've certainly used and abused Civilization and other games in other
ways. Calculating the shortest path to nuclear weapons, building as
many as possible, nuking every city on the map including my own, and
then rebuilding from nuclear winter. Not that I consider any of this
abuse, it's just playing with the system. Discovering ways to beat
the system or conquering boredom of an already conquered game.
> The implication here is that you may define "collect lotsa money",
> or "collect biggo weapons", or whatever as your game goals. but its
> quite likely that your players are going to pick on doing something
> else entirely *IF* they consider it more fun. Add in the strong
> social element implicit in MUDs, and once one finds that "other goal",
> its quite likely he'll drag the rest of the player base in that
> direction as well.
Certainly. If it's something I'm interested in developing into an
fully fleshed out subsystem, it will become so. If it's an
activity that goes in a direction that is deeply disturbing to my
concept of the game and sense of fun, it will be toasted and groked.
If its exploitation of a design weakness and I find it amusing and
enjoyable so be it. Players have little power in this regard unlike
a commercial environment. I think we may have touched upon this
before in USENET(?). The notion that the mud exists for the sole
enjoyment of the players and they have certain inalienable rights.
My conclusion, if I didn't state it explicitly, was the mud exists
for MY amusement and when that ceases so goes the mud.
> 4) Historically, MUD aministrators and IMMs have been asked to play
> the Good Guys. Per r.g.m.admin they should be kind and caring and
> considerate, and willing to restore player accounts and lost EQ at a
> whim, should be happy, and should offer mental salve and an endless
> ear for all those times the big mean nasty monsters somehow,
> freakishly, win and slaughter the poor unassuming over-armoured
> behmouth players with +d10 accoutrement.
Stop it. You're making me nauseous. ;)
> Of course r.g.m.admin also suggests that this is not quite always
> true in practice. Lorry (MIST IMM and Admin) clearly proposes that
> admins should be capricious, evel-minded, nasty, profane, easily
> provoked, cruel and petty only at the best of times. The rest of the
> time they should be much much worse/(better). Bartle implicitly seems
> to support this with his comments on creating wizard heirarchies,
> ensuring annoying or incompetant mortals were perma-deathed before
> they got too far, etc.
I feel better now.
For Ancient Greece, do you think I would implement deities any
other way? ;)
We must also acknowledge my RP aspect here though. The types of
players that would be considered annoying or incompetent may be quite
different from traditional HNS muds. In addition the
deities/immortals punishments/rewards further the "story" while
providing the requisite fear and capriciousness element.
> This echoes #2, but extends the argument to the challenge of the
> game. MUDs are inherently mechanical. Mechanical systems are
> implicitly easy to beat once one has learned the "trick". There's
> always some sort of basic formulae which can be followed to "success"
> within a mechanical system. If you don't want this, a major portion
> of your system must then be non-mechanical -- ie heavily influenced by
> players or the Admins.
>
> Unfortunately players can't really be trsuted to do this. Their
> goals allign with their "success" in the game. Therefore *not*
> permuting the game away from their assumed basic formulae is to their
> advantage. Even if you add various forms of feedback into the system
> (XX wins big therefore some YY must lose big to maintain equilibirum),
> all you've really done is added some oscillations to the steady state
> that already exists, and added a competitive edge to the already
> present basic formulae.
>
> Thus, it is left to the admins. They have no vested interest in the
> game mechanics or their impacts on player's and accomplishment of
> in-game goals. They can freely be rogue elephants, or the looney
> bearing the steel football on Airforce One. They can, with a little
> imagination, inject real randomity into the system. They are utterly
> unpredictable at base within the game as they have no interest in
> winning the game.
An immortal in my game has the controls or adminstration of the
mechanical systems imbedded within the character. A deity is both
game mechanics and player in one being. Quite possibly this is
a contrived solution to the above problems. Important game resources
must be logged. I fully expect bugs or holes to develop in the
system. I note in the Habitat treatises that they were able to
measure the amount of gold in the world and tracking it over time led
to discovery of discrepancies in prices in different locations. You
also mention your desire to be able to run queries into how many of X
where killed by means of Y, etc. I've always wondered how
effectively one could administrate a mud without any notion of what's
actually going one inside the world, especially these critical
resources. Muds as world simulations _must_ have administration
tools for game balance. Otherwise you are completely dependent on
player rumours, random snooping and logging. I see a new thread
here!
[snipped shoebox analogy]
I find this quite useful. Simcity represents to my mind a very
similar shoebox. It's very difficult to deviate from the state of
stasis, the more sims introduced into the mix (each building a
sim). The fuller the shoebox becomes and motion (change) is reduced.
> >Hmm, back to popularity campaigns. The question is, what value sets
> >are used to achieve rank and just what game effects are felt when
> >one achieves the goal of a rank or position?
>
> A more telling question:
>
> You have 50 rank points you can freely assign.
>
> There is a position (whatever) up for grabs within the game.
>
> Bubba has a very perverse imagination and has some ideas for what
> he'd like to do if he got the position. His activities will result in
> demolishing many other game structures, causing bankruptcy, starvation
> etc etc. But the ride up to the fall looks like being a real hair
> raiser, full of interesting twists and clever features.
>
> Boffo is much more staid and promises to coninue things largely
> unchanged and in a predictably "positive" and constructive manner.
>
> Who do you give your RP's to? Why?
>
You presume that Bubba's perversity is not ideal for the position.
Bubba may well be very good for Sparta. Perhaps he wishes to embark
on a campaign of conquest of the other city states destroying all
other game structures.
Let's assume what I'm sure you meant. Bubba wants to be king of
Sparta so he can destroy the Spartan game systems. Bubba wants to
destroy just for the sheer joy of it or because he's bored with
his "spartan" lifestyle.
Assume Bubba by GOPing manages to extract RPs from the many
mechanical AIs by playing each one like a fiddle. Also, we have
many Spartan players willing to go along with Bubba's explicitly
stated (through socials that is) goals. Bubba gets his position
destroys the economy (ruins many player businesses, naturally),
burns surrounding villages and starvation sets in (many players die,
naturally), reduction in trade effects other city states (other
players investments go bankrupt, naturally), etc.
Assume the gods are completely asleep at the wheel and noone in
their favor dies, suffers or makes last ditch appeals (not likely).
Assume simpeeps and NPCS are passive sheep (not likely).
How long will Bubba survive if even a small minority of disgruntled
players exists in the world. Not very long.
I would allow Bubba to exist and might even encourage the attempts.
But let the natural games systems handle it, naturally and
realistically.
> Now you are Bernie beer swillin' redneck, who do you give your RP's
> to? Why?
I would imagine many players including myself would give Bubba a go.
If Bubba's exploitation and perversion of game systems causes them to
fail, including life sustaining ones affecting other players and non
players alike. Do you think a second Bubba will be allowed to arise.
This is what I'd like to achieve. It's not necessarily a morality
play but a simulation of cascading effects.
--
Jon A. Lambert
Nature comprehends the visible and invisible Creatures of the Whole
universe. What we call Nature especially, is the universal fire or
Anima Mundi, filling the whole system of the Universe, and therefore
is a Universal Agent, omnipresent, and endowed with an unerring instinct,
and manifests itself in fire and Light. It is the First creature of
Divine Omnipotence.
-----
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment Jeff Kesselman
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Alignment Ling
- Alignment Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Alignment adam@treyarch.com
- Alignment Spin
- DESIGN: R-Trees (fwd) Greg Munt
- DESIGN: R-Trees (fwd) clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Alignment & Introductions lapsos
- Alignment & Introductions Travis Casey
- Alignment & Introductions Matt Chatterley
- Alignment & Introductions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Foods (was Character evolution) Marian Griffith
- Foods (was Character evolution) Matt Chatterley
- Foods (was Character evolution) clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Foods (was Character evolution) Matt Chatterley
- Comments on MUDs from Shadists clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Inebriation Jon A. Lambert
- Language design Greg Munt
- Language design Jeff Kesselman
- Language design Chris Gray
- Language design clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Language design Chris Gray
- {rape] lets drop it Jeff Kesselman
- {rape] lets drop it Alex Oren
- {rape] lets drop it Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Invitations coder@ibm.net
- Invitations coder@ibm.net
- Poisons (was Foods) Koster, Kristen
- Poisons (was Foods) Travis Casey
- Poisons (was Foods) Matt Chatterley
- Poisons (was Foods) Jon A. Lambert
- META: Attributions and Eudora clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Attributions and Eudora Jon A. Lambert
- Free DB list coder@ibm.net
- New topic: AI and NPCs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New topic: AI and NPCs Travis Casey
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Travis Casey
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Travis Casey
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ned Lovely
- New topic: AI and NPCs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New topic: AI and NPCs Nathan Yospe
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Nathan Yospe
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs Nathan Yospe
- New topic: AI and NPCs Alex Oren
- New topic: AI and NPCs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs coder@ibm.net
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs coder@ibm.net
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- Re: clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Rape Threads Nathan Yospe
- Rape Threads Jon A. Lambert
- Rape Threads Nathan Yospe
- Rape Threads Robin Carey
- Rape Threads Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- "Social control", was butthead features Koster, Raph
- "Social control", was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- "Social control", was butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- "Social control", was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution [off topic] Alex Oren
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world Brandon Gillespie
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world coder@ibm.net
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD universe Chris Gray
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- MUD universe Nathan Yospe
- MUD Universe S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- MUD Universe Nathan Yospe
- MUD Universe S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- MUD Universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe coder@ibm.net
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD Universe Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD universe Maddy
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Brian Price
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals(Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals(Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals(Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Miroslav Silovic
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- Re: Adam Wiggins
- Re: Marian Griffith
- Users want sexy muds, not rape... (Re:) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- OT: Mortality coder@ibm.net
- Re:) Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution [off topic] coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution [off topic] Miroslav Silovic
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Jeff Kesselman
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Jeff Kesselman
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Jeff Kesselman
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Re:) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- World full of heros Jeff Kesselman
- World full of heros Marian Griffith
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books. Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- OT: Re:) Jon A. Lambert
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Miroslav Silovic
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Travis Casey
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Travis Casey
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Nathan Yospe
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Shawn Halpenny
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Brian Price
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Brian Price
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Brian Price
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Michael Hohensee
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Matt Chatterley
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Dan Shiovitz
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jon A. Lambert
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Shawn Halpenny
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Maddy
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Shawn Halpenny
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Adam Wiggins
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis S. Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis S. Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Nathan Yospe
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jon A. Lambert
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Dan Shiovitz
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com