August 1997
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Koster, Raph
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Martin Keegan
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Richard Woolcock
- New Topic: Butthead features Martin Keegan
- New Topic: Butthead features coder@ibm.net
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Brandon Cline
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Koster, Raph
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Martin Keegan
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Adam Wiggins
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- PirateMUD and CSL Niklas Elmqvist
- PirateMUD and CSL Chris Gray
- PirateMUD and CSL Koster, Raph
- PirateMUD and CSL clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- PirateMUD and CSL Jon A. Lambert
- PirateMUD and CSL clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- PirateMUD and CSL clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Michael Hohensee
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Cynbe ru Taren
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Michael Hohensee
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Shawn Halpenny
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/perspectives Koster, Raph
- Ultima Online/Generalized AI Koster, Raph
- Reputation, was butthead features Koster, Raph
- Reputation, was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- Reputation, was butthead features Koster, Kristen
- Reputation, was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- Reputation, was butthead features Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/perspectives Jeff Kesselman
- Generalized AI Resend Koster, Raph
- Generalized AI Resend clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Interview with Richard Bartle clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Generalized AI last try! Koster, Raph
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Chris Gray
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Michael Hohensee
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Michael Hohensee
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Jon Leonard
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Jeff Kesselman
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Chris Gray
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Michael Hohensee
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Cynbe ru Taren
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Richard Woolcock
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Nathan Yospe
- Mud Languages Greg Munt
- MUD languages Chris Gray
- MUD languages clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Mud Languages Nathan Yospe
- Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Mud Languages Greg Munt
- Mud Languages Captain Burrito
- Mud Languages Miroslav Silovic
- Mud Languages Cynbe ru Taren
- Mud Languages Jeff Kesselman
- Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Mud Languages clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mud Languages coder@ibm.net
- Mud Languages Jeff Kesselman
- Mud Languages clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- sorry, cut off, was PirateMUD and CSL Koster, Raph
- Introduction Dan Armstrong
- Introduction clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Introduction John G.
- Introduction clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Introduction Dan Armstrong
- Introduction clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Introduction Michael Hohensee
- Mud Languages (Introesque) ##Make Nylander
- Mud Languages (Introesque) ##Make Nylander
- Mud Languages (Introesque) Nathan Yospe
- Quad-trees/Oct-trees Michael Hohensee
- Quad-trees/Oct-trees Dan Armstrong
- node-based 3D coord systems Nathan Yospe
- Signing off... Brandon Van Every
- The 'Socialiser' problem Greg Munt
- The 'Socialiser' problem Nathan Yospe
- The 'Socialiser' problem Greg Munt
- The 'Socialiser' problem Nathan Yospe
- The 'Socialiser' problem Greg Munt
- The 'Socialiser' problem Nathan Yospe
- The 'Socialiser' problem Matt Chatterley
- The 'Socialiser' problem Chris Gray
- The 'Socialiser' problem Jeff Kesselman
- The 'Socialiser' problem Miroslav Silovic
- The 'Socialiser' problem Martin Keegan
- The 'Socialiser' problem Matt Chatterley
- The 'Socialiser' problem clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Release out! Chris Gray
- Dots in a name? Martin Keegan
- Dots in a name? Chris Gray
- Dots in a name? Matt Chatterley
- Dots in a name? Martin Keegan
- Dots in a name? Matt Chatterley
- Dots in a name? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Languages: "strong" vs "weak" Chris Gray
- porting question Chris Gray
- New to this mailing list Richard Woolcock
- New to this mailing list Chris Gray
- New to this mailing list Matt Chatterley
- New to this mailing list Richard Woolcock
- New to this mailing list Chris Gray
- New to this mailing list Marian Griffith
- New to this mailing list Martin Keegan
- New to this mailing list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New to this mailing list Jeff Kesselman
- New to this mailing list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New to this mailing list Jon A. Lambert
- New to this mailing list Jeff Kesselman
- New to this mailing list Jon A. Lambert
- NPC Ecologies [was 'New to this mailing list'] Greg Munt
- DemonScape clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Evolution of The Mud Tree Greg Munt
- OT: Invite Batzing? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Finding Space Michael Hohensee
- Finding Space Shawn Halpenny
- Finding Space Nathan Yospe
- Finding Space Chris Gray
- Finding Space Ned Lovely
- Finding Space Ned Lovely
- Finding Space Chris Gray
- Finding Space Nathan Yospe
- Finding Space Michael Hohensee
- Finding Space clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: test Odysseus Laertes
- Fuzion - RPG game system Jon Lambert
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution Dan Shiovitz
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Koster, Raph
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- OT: test Jon A. Lambert
- Fuzion Jon A. Lambert
- (subject missing) Maddog Worlds
- Fuzion - Game System Jon A. Lambert
- Fuzion - Game System Frank Crowell
- Fuzion - Game System Jeff Kesselman
- Fuzion - Game System Jeff Kesselman
- Fuzion - Game System Jon A. Lambert
- Fuzion - Game System Jeff Kesselman
- legal mumbo jumbo Jeff Kesselman
- Bladder Control Jeff Kesselman
- Bladder Control Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Collision Detection Cynbe ru Taren
- Looking for books... Greg Munt
- Looking for books... Jeff Kesselman
- Looking for books... Cynbe ru Taren
- Looking for books... Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Looking for books... Jeff Kesselman
- Looking for books... Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Looking for books... Jeff Kesselman
- Looking for books... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Looking for books... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Looking for books... coder@ibm.net
- Looking for books... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Looking for books... coder@ibm.net
- Looking for books... Jon A. Lambert
- Looking for books... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Re: Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Felix A. Croes
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Chris Gray
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution ##Make Nylander
- Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Character evolution Chris Gray
- Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Maddy
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Ned Lovely
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Chris Gray
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution The Eternal City
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution The Eternal City
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Brian Price
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Shawn Halpenny
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment Richard Woolcock
- Alignment Jeff Kesselman
- Alignment Jeff Kesselman
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Alignment Ling
- Alignment Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Alignment adam@treyarch.com
- Alignment Spin
- DESIGN: R-Trees (fwd) Greg Munt
- DESIGN: R-Trees (fwd) clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Alignment & Introductions lapsos
- Alignment & Introductions Travis Casey
- Alignment & Introductions Matt Chatterley
- Alignment & Introductions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Foods (was Character evolution) Marian Griffith
- Foods (was Character evolution) Matt Chatterley
- Foods (was Character evolution) clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Foods (was Character evolution) Matt Chatterley
- Comments on MUDs from Shadists clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Inebriation Jon A. Lambert
- Language design Greg Munt
- Language design Jeff Kesselman
- Language design Chris Gray
- Language design clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Language design Chris Gray
- {rape] lets drop it Jeff Kesselman
- {rape] lets drop it Alex Oren
- {rape] lets drop it Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Invitations coder@ibm.net
- Invitations coder@ibm.net
- Poisons (was Foods) Koster, Kristen
- Poisons (was Foods) Travis Casey
- Poisons (was Foods) Matt Chatterley
- Poisons (was Foods) Jon A. Lambert
- META: Attributions and Eudora clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Attributions and Eudora Jon A. Lambert
- Free DB list coder@ibm.net
- New topic: AI and NPCs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New topic: AI and NPCs Travis Casey
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Travis Casey
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Travis Casey
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ned Lovely
- New topic: AI and NPCs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New topic: AI and NPCs Nathan Yospe
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Nathan Yospe
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs Nathan Yospe
- New topic: AI and NPCs Alex Oren
- New topic: AI and NPCs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs coder@ibm.net
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs coder@ibm.net
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- Re: clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Rape Threads Nathan Yospe
- Rape Threads Jon A. Lambert
- Rape Threads Nathan Yospe
- Rape Threads Robin Carey
- Rape Threads Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- "Social control", was butthead features Koster, Raph
- "Social control", was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- "Social control", was butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- "Social control", was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution [off topic] Alex Oren
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world Brandon Gillespie
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world coder@ibm.net
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD universe Chris Gray
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- MUD universe Nathan Yospe
- MUD Universe S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- MUD Universe Nathan Yospe
- MUD Universe S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- MUD Universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe coder@ibm.net
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD Universe Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD universe Maddy
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Brian Price
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
>[Ola F:]
>
>: All textbased MUDs currently existing are higly discrete
>:and static in nature and would map nicely onto a traditional database
>:system, but the systems I am interested in would not. They are way to
>:iterative, dynamic and fluid-like in nature.
>
>I think you need to stop and hear about some of the systems that people
>in this list have implemented before you go making blanket statements
>like that.
So why don't you tell me?!
>
>: And the fact remains, if you change your
>:object-system (class-hierarchy if you like) you need a wipe if the data
>:stored in the internal structure is reflected on the secondary storage
>:device. (which it will if you use straight persistence)
>
>Nonsense.
>
> SetParent(AThing, NewParent)$
>
>Done.
????
>You are thinking only in terms of the C++ style of "objects". When all
>objects are indirectly referenced (what "objected oriented" meant before
>C++ came along and clouded the issue), such changes in the hierarcy are
>fairly trivial.
I think you need to pick up a book on computer language history. Simula67
has references much like C++, which is natural since Stroustrup is of
Simula breed. Indirect referencing won't help you much if you split
objects, does it? If you change your objectsystem there is trouble in
any conceivable efficient language. Some changes are easier to do in
some languages, but for the general case, you are in trouble. Indirect
referencing is of course great for a lot of things, and probably a
weakness in C++ compared to the languages you use. But not in this
case.
Of course, if you care about efficiency/compiler optimization then
dynamic resolving is shit. If you use C++ (which sucks) you better
care about efficiency. I would think most people using algol-type
languages care about performance.
>:Anyway, if realtime information is no problem, why don't you just use
>:plain core-dumping for saving your data between executions?? Tell me!
>:Core-dumping would be the most efficient and easy way to do persistence,
>:wouldn't it?
>
>Again, you need to hang around and read what people here are doing before
>jumping to conclusions. Several of our systems are disk based, with only
>a recently used subset of the data actually in memory at any time.
You know, diskbased systems is one of the traditional approaches to
MUDs... :)
But this won't work in a dynamic system where "the wind is blowing",
where you have global dynamics implemented by solving oversimplified
differential equations. What I was pointing at with coredumping was that
there is more to persistence than to freeze the systemstate, so in a
general programming language (OS-level) you somehow have to differentiate
between those things that are valid between runs and those that are not.
I personally cannot see why anyone would design a diskbased system when
RAM prices seems to be cut in half every 8 months or something, and
most UNIXes have decent virtual memory systems. In 4 years I'll probably
have 1GB of RAM and 3GB of swapspace, what bothers me is not lack of
memory, but memory accesstimes and distribution (multiple servers).
Then again, I am of course coloured by my own attitudes towards design
of virtual worlds.
>:No, it is not. If persistence is totally reliable and did what it should
>:ideally do, you would not need to store information in two ways.
>:Period.
>
>Depends on what you mean by "backup". For my system, a backup is a fully
>consistent copy of the MUD persistent store files, made in another
>directory. This protects against system crashes.
I wrote "backing up vital information like scenery and user attributes" or
something like that. The idea was to back up against datastructure bugs
that has remained in the system for a while, even from the start, hence
bugs that calls for a wipe.
>Agreement does indeed seem far away. However, having worked with a
>persistent store MUD system for about 5 years now, I come to value its
>persistent nature more and more as time goes by. There are so many
>things I just don't have to worry about.
But, I have nothing against a persistent store MUD system. What I warn
against is using persistent store general language support (OS-level)
without making separate load/save functions for the most vital information.
The only reason I pointed out some downs with a persistent object-store
is that I recommended someone on the list to look up a persistent
object-store library instead of building his own. Later I felt obliged
to warn against some downsides that this approach usually will bring
with it. Which I guess some die-hard persistence guys took personal.
I've used the persistence system in Beta, which was ok for
prototyping. I think their approach is fairly ok, as it doesn't affect
anything in your design, and it allows for sharing of objects among
servers (beyond remote function calls). It takes a snapshot, which is what
I want in a MUD system (not in a banking system though).
It doesn't hamper the language in any way either, but is an add-on (with
knowledge of language internals) that you can add to an exisiting system
with little effort. The main problem is that you have to tell it where
to stop and that it cannot save components (objects with their own
runtimestack) and that it is sensitive to class modifications due to a
simple implementation.
Ola. - MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals(Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals(Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals(Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Miroslav Silovic
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- Re: Adam Wiggins
- Re: Marian Griffith
- Users want sexy muds, not rape... (Re:) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- OT: Mortality coder@ibm.net
- Re:) Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution [off topic] coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution [off topic] Miroslav Silovic
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Jeff Kesselman
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Jeff Kesselman
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Jeff Kesselman
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Re:) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- World full of heros Jeff Kesselman
- World full of heros Marian Griffith
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books. Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- OT: Re:) Jon A. Lambert
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Miroslav Silovic
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Travis Casey
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Travis Casey
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Nathan Yospe
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Shawn Halpenny
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Brian Price
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Brian Price
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Brian Price
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Michael Hohensee
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Matt Chatterley
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Dan Shiovitz
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jon A. Lambert
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Shawn Halpenny
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Maddy
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Shawn Halpenny
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Adam Wiggins
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis S. Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis S. Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Nathan Yospe
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jon A. Lambert
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Dan Shiovitz
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com