August 1997
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Koster, Raph
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Jon A. Lambert
- New Topic: Butthead features Martin Keegan
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Richard Woolcock
- New Topic: Butthead features Martin Keegan
- New Topic: Butthead features coder@ibm.net
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Brandon Cline
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features Koster, Raph
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Matt Chatterley
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: Butthead features Martin Keegan
- New Topic: Butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: Butthead features Adam Wiggins
- New Topic: Butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- PirateMUD and CSL Niklas Elmqvist
- PirateMUD and CSL Chris Gray
- PirateMUD and CSL Koster, Raph
- PirateMUD and CSL clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- PirateMUD and CSL Jon A. Lambert
- PirateMUD and CSL clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- PirateMUD and CSL clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Michael Hohensee
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Cynbe ru Taren
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Michael Hohensee
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds Shawn Halpenny
- Sparse Arrays and co-ordinate based worlds clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Graphic MUDS/perspectives Koster, Raph
- Ultima Online/Generalized AI Koster, Raph
- Reputation, was butthead features Koster, Raph
- Reputation, was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- Reputation, was butthead features Koster, Kristen
- Reputation, was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- Reputation, was butthead features Adam Wiggins
- Graphic MUDS/perspectives Jeff Kesselman
- Generalized AI Resend Koster, Raph
- Generalized AI Resend clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Interview with Richard Bartle clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Generalized AI last try! Koster, Raph
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Chris Gray
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Michael Hohensee
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Michael Hohensee
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Jon Leonard
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Jeff Kesselman
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Chris Gray
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Michael Hohensee
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Cynbe ru Taren
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Richard Woolcock
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Spellcaster, or Waving Hands Nathan Yospe
- Mud Languages Greg Munt
- MUD languages Chris Gray
- MUD languages clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Mud Languages Nathan Yospe
- Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Mud Languages Greg Munt
- Mud Languages Captain Burrito
- Mud Languages Miroslav Silovic
- Mud Languages Cynbe ru Taren
- Mud Languages Jeff Kesselman
- Mud Languages Chris Gray
- Mud Languages clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Mud Languages coder@ibm.net
- Mud Languages Jeff Kesselman
- Mud Languages clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- sorry, cut off, was PirateMUD and CSL Koster, Raph
- Introduction Dan Armstrong
- Introduction clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Introduction John G.
- Introduction clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Introduction Dan Armstrong
- Introduction clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Introduction Michael Hohensee
- Mud Languages (Introesque) ##Make Nylander
- Mud Languages (Introesque) ##Make Nylander
- Mud Languages (Introesque) Nathan Yospe
- Quad-trees/Oct-trees Michael Hohensee
- Quad-trees/Oct-trees Dan Armstrong
- node-based 3D coord systems Nathan Yospe
- Signing off... Brandon Van Every
- The 'Socialiser' problem Greg Munt
- The 'Socialiser' problem Nathan Yospe
- The 'Socialiser' problem Greg Munt
- The 'Socialiser' problem Nathan Yospe
- The 'Socialiser' problem Greg Munt
- The 'Socialiser' problem Nathan Yospe
- The 'Socialiser' problem Matt Chatterley
- The 'Socialiser' problem Chris Gray
- The 'Socialiser' problem Jeff Kesselman
- The 'Socialiser' problem Miroslav Silovic
- The 'Socialiser' problem Martin Keegan
- The 'Socialiser' problem Matt Chatterley
- The 'Socialiser' problem clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Release out! Chris Gray
- Dots in a name? Martin Keegan
- Dots in a name? Chris Gray
- Dots in a name? Matt Chatterley
- Dots in a name? Martin Keegan
- Dots in a name? Matt Chatterley
- Dots in a name? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Languages: "strong" vs "weak" Chris Gray
- porting question Chris Gray
- New to this mailing list Richard Woolcock
- New to this mailing list Chris Gray
- New to this mailing list Matt Chatterley
- New to this mailing list Richard Woolcock
- New to this mailing list Chris Gray
- New to this mailing list Marian Griffith
- New to this mailing list Martin Keegan
- New to this mailing list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New to this mailing list Jeff Kesselman
- New to this mailing list Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New to this mailing list Jon A. Lambert
- New to this mailing list Jeff Kesselman
- New to this mailing list Jon A. Lambert
- NPC Ecologies [was 'New to this mailing list'] Greg Munt
- DemonScape clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Evolution of The Mud Tree Greg Munt
- OT: Invite Batzing? clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance Jeff Kesselman
- New Topic: ButtheadS and Jurisprudance clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Finding Space Michael Hohensee
- Finding Space Shawn Halpenny
- Finding Space Nathan Yospe
- Finding Space Chris Gray
- Finding Space Ned Lovely
- Finding Space Ned Lovely
- Finding Space Chris Gray
- Finding Space Nathan Yospe
- Finding Space Michael Hohensee
- Finding Space clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- OT: test Odysseus Laertes
- Fuzion - RPG game system Jon Lambert
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution Dan Shiovitz
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Koster, Raph
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Character evolution Richard Woolcock
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- OT: test Jon A. Lambert
- Fuzion Jon A. Lambert
- (subject missing) Maddog Worlds
- Fuzion - Game System Jon A. Lambert
- Fuzion - Game System Frank Crowell
- Fuzion - Game System Jeff Kesselman
- Fuzion - Game System Jeff Kesselman
- Fuzion - Game System Jon A. Lambert
- Fuzion - Game System Jeff Kesselman
- legal mumbo jumbo Jeff Kesselman
- Bladder Control Jeff Kesselman
- Bladder Control Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Collision Detection Cynbe ru Taren
- Looking for books... Greg Munt
- Looking for books... Jeff Kesselman
- Looking for books... Cynbe ru Taren
- Looking for books... Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Looking for books... Jeff Kesselman
- Looking for books... Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Looking for books... Jeff Kesselman
- Looking for books... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Looking for books... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Looking for books... coder@ibm.net
- Looking for books... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Looking for books... coder@ibm.net
- Looking for books... Jon A. Lambert
- Looking for books... clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Re: Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Felix A. Croes
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution Chris Gray
- Character evolution Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Character evolution ##Make Nylander
- Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Character evolution Chris Gray
- Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Maddy
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Marian Griffith
- Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Character evolution Ned Lovely
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Chris Gray
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution The Eternal City
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution The Eternal City
- Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Brian Price
- Character evolution Travis Casey
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Shawn Halpenny
- Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment Richard Woolcock
- Alignment Jeff Kesselman
- Alignment Jeff Kesselman
- Alignment Jon A. Lambert
- Alignment Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Alignment Ling
- Alignment Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Alignment adam@treyarch.com
- Alignment Spin
- DESIGN: R-Trees (fwd) Greg Munt
- DESIGN: R-Trees (fwd) clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Alignment & Introductions lapsos
- Alignment & Introductions Travis Casey
- Alignment & Introductions Matt Chatterley
- Alignment & Introductions clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Foods (was Character evolution) Marian Griffith
- Foods (was Character evolution) Matt Chatterley
- Foods (was Character evolution) clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Foods (was Character evolution) Matt Chatterley
- Comments on MUDs from Shadists clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Inebriation Jon A. Lambert
- Language design Greg Munt
- Language design Jeff Kesselman
- Language design Chris Gray
- Language design clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Language design Chris Gray
- {rape] lets drop it Jeff Kesselman
- {rape] lets drop it Alex Oren
- {rape] lets drop it Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Invitations coder@ibm.net
- Invitations coder@ibm.net
- Poisons (was Foods) Koster, Kristen
- Poisons (was Foods) Travis Casey
- Poisons (was Foods) Matt Chatterley
- Poisons (was Foods) Jon A. Lambert
- META: Attributions and Eudora clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- META: Attributions and Eudora Jon A. Lambert
- Free DB list coder@ibm.net
- New topic: AI and NPCs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New topic: AI and NPCs Travis Casey
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Travis Casey
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Travis Casey
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- New topic: AI and NPCs Matt Chatterley
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Ned Lovely
- New topic: AI and NPCs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New topic: AI and NPCs Nathan Yospe
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs Adam Wiggins
- New topic: AI and NPCs Nathan Yospe
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs Nathan Yospe
- New topic: AI and NPCs Alex Oren
- New topic: AI and NPCs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jon A. Lambert
- New topic: AI and NPCs coder@ibm.net
- New topic: AI and NPCs clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- New topic: AI and NPCs coder@ibm.net
- New topic: AI and NPCs Jeff Kesselman
- Re: clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Rape Threads Nathan Yospe
- Rape Threads Jon A. Lambert
- Rape Threads Nathan Yospe
- Rape Threads Robin Carey
- Rape Threads Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- "Social control", was butthead features Koster, Raph
- "Social control", was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- "Social control", was butthead features clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- "Social control", was butthead features Jeff Kesselman
- Character evolution [off topic] Alex Oren
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world Brandon Gillespie
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- (fwd) NEW: multi-user VRML world coder@ibm.net
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD universe Chris Gray
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- MUD universe Nathan Yospe
- MUD Universe S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- MUD Universe Nathan Yospe
- MUD Universe S001GMU@nova.wright.edu
- MUD Universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe coder@ibm.net
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD Universe Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD universe Maddy
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe Felix A. Croes
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD universe clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Chris Gray
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Adam Wiggins
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books...) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Brian Price
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
At 02:26 PM 8/29/97 PST8PDT, you wrote:
>Hello all,
>I'm new to this list so I'll include a short intro in this followup.
>I'm a 35 yr old computer technician/circuit designer turned programmer
A side note. The difference between your practical approach based on what
you've seen rdbms' do, and my theore5ical approach based o nthe
underpinning rdbms theory may be a differnece in training. My engineering
trainginw as software and so I've got a good deal of softare tehory to fall
back on. I approach circuit design by looking at what I can clearly see
and comprehend and then modify from tehre (my facvorite boosk in this
regard are the "engineers Notebooks' from Radi Shack). I ma not an
engineer, so while the underlying theory of what I'm lookign at may be much
more flexible, i don't knwo how.
To me this is the differnece between a programmer and a software engineer.
Jeff kesselman
>who's had an interest in wargames and rpgs since the age of 16 or so. As
>I have had a non-formal education, I may at times present concepts in
>unfamiliar ways. (the following will no doubt be an example of this)
>
>A persistance system is used to take a 'snapshot' of a system or
>sub-system state at a particular point in time. The persistance
>mechanism can then restore the system or sub-system to that earlier
>state. It consists of basically three layers; the system or
>sub-system to be 'persisted', a system to encode/decode the run-time
>state of the persistant system to a storage mechanism, and a storage
>mechanism to store that state info.
>
>A relational db corresponds to the store layer in a persistance model
>with one major difference, the store layer in a typical OO
>persistance model is unaware of the structure and type of stored
>data. A relational db can well be used as the store layer for a
>persistance model but you lose the structure and type ignorance.
>
>Thus if you change the type of a class data member you must make a
>corresponding change in the relational db structure. Although this
>violates some OO design goals (ability to isolate/encapsulate
>changes), it has the advantage that the store layer can be
>manipulated outside of the program that implements persistance.
>Another advantage is that the store layer incorporates functionality
>that you will not need to implement in the app.
>
>If your app is implemented in a langauge that supports runtime-binding,
>(Smalltalk, LPC?, etc) the dumb store would be more appropriate since
>you are more apt to need to make changes at only one place. However
>you may need to implement more sophisticated knowledge extraction
>mechanisms. If you find yourself in need of the ability to query
>the data, do updates, perform transactions you must provide those
>capabilities in your code.
>
>On the other hand, if you are implementing your app in an
>early-binding language (C,C++, etc) you might well consider using an
>rdbms as your persistance store. Primarily because you will need to
>write less code to achieve the same ends (data import/export,
>external data manipulation, queries, updates, transactios, etc.).
>The drawback is, of course, that you must keep your object model and
>your db model in sync.
>
>If your chosen rdbms supports meta-functions, you could perhaps
>design a persistance system that automatically updates
>the underlying db for changes in the object model. I'm not sure of
>the practical use of this, but it is quite possible to have a new
>class implementation check the db upon first instance creation and
>update its fields/tables as required. This would restore the
>encapsulation of changes feature of the dumb store at the expense of
>an increase in complexity of implementation.
>
>In closing, the persistance vs. rdbms argument is not necessarily an
>either-or question. In some situations it may prove profitable to
>combine the two approaches. I hope this helps to clarify the picture
>a bit.
>
>> At 03:47 AM 8/29/97 PST8PDT, Ola Fosheim Groestad wrote:
>> >Jeff Kesselman wrote:
>> >> engine ala Cold or Smalltalk. This is akign to the 'realtional databes"
>> >> oidea where everythitgn is stored as tables, ebven the sturucture of the
>> >> data itself.
>> >
>> >I don't think of this as persistence. By persitence I mean something
>> >like handing a reference to an object and tell the persistence system to
>> >save the object and everything that object refers to unless something
>> >else is specified. A database is something else, I may be wrong..
>>
>> A relational database really is jsuta way of organizing data on the disk
>> drive. The inetrface coudl be what you describe or a standard table-type
>> generic inetrface. In iether case a dataabse coudl be living under neath
>> to ragnize the data.
>>
>> An "object orinted database" is a lot mreo like what yo udescribe BUT the
>> problem qwith your descriptionj is that it make sa concious act of storing
>> and retrieving necessary. Many "inhearently p[ersistant" systems (such as
>> cold or Smalltalk) do NOT require such an active effort. In genral the
>> difference is in tehcnase of cold or Smalltalk the persistance is built
>> into the system, in the case of a C++ persistance library it is an add on.
>>
>> But ANY system that can store the values of obejcts and recreate them from
>> a secondary storage device ghas the quality of "persistance". Lieterally
>> persistance comes from the english verb "to persist" or to continue to
exist.
>>
>
>Brian Price aka Delver <blprice@bedford.net>
>
>
Jeff Kesselman
Snr. Game Integration Engineer
TEN -- The Total Entertainment Network -- www.ten.net
-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
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GCS/CC/E/IT/MC d+(++)@ s: a C++++$ ULSC+++(++++)$ P++(+++)$ L++
E--- W++$ N++$ o+ K--? w++(+++)$@>--- O+(++)>$ M+>$ !V PS++ PE+
Y+ PGP- t+ 5+ X- R+(++)$>+++* tv+ b+>++ DI+++ !D G e++ h r+++ y+++
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------
Speak Geek!
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- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Miroslav Silovic
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for coder@ibm.net
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for Jeff Kesselman
- Re: Adam Wiggins
- Re: Marian Griffith
- Users want sexy muds, not rape... (Re:) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- OT: Mortality coder@ibm.net
- Re:) Adam Wiggins
- Character evolution [off topic] coder@ibm.net
- Character evolution [off topic] Miroslav Silovic
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Jeff Kesselman
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Jeff Kesselman
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Jeff Kesselman
- **sigh** OOP wars and defining RDBMS Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Re:) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- World full of heros Jeff Kesselman
- World full of heros Marian Griffith
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books. Jon A. Lambert
- MUD Design Fundamentals (Was: Looking for books. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- OT: Re:) Jon A. Lambert
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Jeff Kesselman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Miroslav Silovic
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Travis Casey
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Travis Casey
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi Muds was Character Evolution Nathan Yospe
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Shawn Halpenny
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Nathan Yospe
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Jon A. Lambert
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brandon J. Rickman
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Adam Wiggins
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Matt Chatterley
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Brian Price
- Hard Sci-fi muds was Character evolution Chris Gray
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Brian Price
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Brian Price
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Brian Price
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Michael Hohensee
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jeff Kesselman
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Matt Chatterley
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Dan Shiovitz
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jon A. Lambert
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Shawn Halpenny
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Maddy
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Shawn Halpenny
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Adam Wiggins
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis S. Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Travis S. Casey
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Nathan Yospe
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Jon A. Lambert
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects Dan Shiovitz
- Modeling spells/skills as collections of affects clawrenc@cup.hp.com