February 2003
- Announcing Game Programming Gems 4 Andrew Kirmse
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Paul Schwanz
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Koster, Raph
- Secondary characters as a mechanic adam
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Ted L. Chen
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Rayzam
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Michael Tresca
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Serafina Pechan
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Damion Schubert
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Secondary characters as a mechanic John Buehler
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Edward Glowacki
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Wes Connell
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Harrok
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Adam
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Russ Whiteman
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Valerio Santinelli
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Adam Burr
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Valerio Santinelli
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Adam Burr
- Limited character lifespans Dan Shiovitz
- Limited character lifespans Richard Krush
- Limited character lifespans Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Limited character lifespans Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Limited character lifespans shren
- Limited character lifespans Paul Cobb
- Limited character lifespans Rayzam
- Limited character lifespans Sasha Hart
- Limited character lifespans Paul Schwanz
- Limited character lifespans Damion Schubert
- Limited character lifespans David H. Loeser Jr.
- How to Find a VC Michael Tresca
- How to Find a VC Koster, Raph
- How to Find a VC Amanda Walker
- How to Find a VC Marc Fielding
- Re:Secondary characters as a mechanic Thiago Moraes
- AP Wire story on activism in MMOG games Marc Fielding
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Chris
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Paul Schwanz
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Dave Rickey
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? John Buehler
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Damion Schubert
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? John Buehler
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? ceo
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Marian Griffith
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Dave Rickey
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Lee Sheldon
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Paul Schwanz
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Lee Sheldon
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Ron Gabbard
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Damion Schubert
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Paul Schwanz
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Zach Collins {Siege}
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Chris Holko
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Dave Rickey
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Koster, Raph
- Predictive models for churn in subscription based games Scott A. Farley
- Predictive models for churn in subscription based games Damion Schubert
- Mud Servers on RedHat Linux 7.2 Coyote
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Ron Gabbard
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Sasha Hart
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Paul Schwanz
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Damion Schubert
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Ron Gabbard
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Marc Fielding
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Serafina Pechan
- Asian markets research question Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev conference J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev conference J C Lawrence
- Re:Secondary characters as a mechanic Thiago Moraes
- Re:Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
To clarify, the > text in Thiago's original post (now >> text here)
should be attributed to me, not Paul (and some time ago)... Unless I
have begun mistaking someone else's writing for mine!
<EdNote: I researched the thread and corrected the attributions
as below. Thanks for the note.>
On Wed, 12 Feb 2003 07:11:51 GMT
Thiago Moraes <darienlkane@netzero.com> wrote:
> On Fri, 7 Feb 2003 01:54:38 -0800
> Sasha Hart <hart.s@attbi.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Feb 2003 09:51:47 -0500
>> Paul Schwanz <pschwanz@comcast.net> wrote:
>>> I've considered something similar to this idea with the addition
>>> that the extra characters would be family members. I think that
>>> having the same surname is a nice IC convention for explaining
>>> *why* faction is carried at the account level.
>> The family premise is attractive for the problem of players who
>> get themselves killed in-game, then make a new character to
>> retaliate. But having an excuse for this is not REALLY
>> necessary. After all,
> I agree, but the point of family linkage scratches on an almost
> mechanical issue. Look at it from this angle: by switching
> characters at will, you dodge most barriers that would prevent a
> player from illicitly spying on a faction. If each of your, say,
> four characters belonged to a powerful guild, you'd instantly gain
> access to intel from four distinct organizations without moving a
> finger to earn it.
You want to bind the characters together by faction. So you keep
them in a family, and the family as a whole is tied to a
faction. Except: What if someone switches over? They carry over
knowledge. How do you prevent that without making the whole thing
unreasonably rigid? Usuall you want to allow people to change
sometimes. If you ask me there is no 100% solution to this problem
that doesn't involve eviscerating the game.
Also, people can just make a new account/family and use that for
intelligence. I would say that this kind of secret should only have
RP-value, so that people can treat breaches of this kind as breaches
in etiquette, rather than destruction of how the game works. But I'm
sure there are other clever things to try, in addition to the usual,
fragile, brute force strategies (watching IPs, having GMs police
people, etc).
> UO's ghost system presented a similar quandary when players
> started mapping dungeons whilst out-of-body. I guess neither of
> these cases is really 'cheating', but they certainly warrant some
> form of liability instead of being merely dismissed.
I suppose they could have disallowed out of body exploration, but
then people could just do it with another character. This is a
uniform problem with any system where players can learn things. I
think it is worth struggling with because getting a point in
navigation is nowhere near as rewarding as knowing the layout and
getting good use out of your own knowledge. In the end, all the
information hiding you do manifests as a selective disadvantage for
not-exploiting.
In the same spirit as what I wrote on this before, I would be
tempted just to let people use their knowledge of this kind across
characters. Fiction breaks in many small ways in these games
already. It is impossible to enforce this as a rule, and as code it
is difficult to do it without making the game very dull (I think it
could be done if taken up as an explicit goal, though who knows
about consequences in other parts of design). Finally, often this
kind of knowledge (at least the maze) could be handled with any sane
policy toward what knowledge player characters are allowed. There is
no reason why two different people might both know how to navigate
through the caves of Sarrn. Maybe one even taught the other. Maybe
they were even in the same family. Maybe it was coincidental and
doesn't matter, since knowing how to navigate through the caves of
Sarrn should not be a game-breaking proposition, or because there's
really not much to do about it. Then the best you can do is design
the game for the worst case, e.g. make it so it works out even if
someone has very good information.
Where it gets really intractable is with plot secrets and the like.
But I am optimistic - (1) these are rare and (2) where I have seen
them, I have also seen players who were generally good enough to
keep it under their hats (or judges who were willing to retcon an
hour or two just to deal with a breach in this specific part of
plot-RP etiquette!)
> The family premise transcends the role of a cute fancy by
> providing ways through which account identity can be researched
> ("I've been told you are Lord Flaotf's cousin.. what exatly is
> your interest in the Knights of the Hour?"). Otherwise, we might
> find ourselves a step short from the disintegration of organized
> grouping.
I don't think there's anything wrong with it in general. In fact I
had tried it informally a year or two ago. It is a neat idea, and
adds some flavor, I imagine particularly where you are fleshing out
interesting cultural stuff like a nobility or a tribal society.
Multiple-character setups open up really cool possibilities, and are
also a sort of design approach to typical multiplaying woes. If the
game is made to be multiplayed, or provides a way to get all the
same goodies you get for multiplaying, then you can rest instead of
pulling your hair out over whether the same person is using proxies
etc. to fool your duplicate-catcher.
- Re:Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Gaming 'is good for you' Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Gaming 'is good for you' Daniel
- Skill vs Knowledge (was: Brand Loyalty) ceo
- Skill vs Knowledge (was: Brand Loyalty) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- FW: Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Damion Schubert
- Cultural impact on Muds Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Rudy Fink
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Damion Schubert
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Marc Fielding
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? eric
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? J C Lawrence
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? eric
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Zach Collins {Siege}
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? eric
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Steven J. Owens
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? chrep@hotmail.com
- New issue of the Daedalus Project Koster, Raph
- New issue of the Daedalus Project Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Movie-Making Games (Was Spam: Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server) Damion Schubert
- Movie-Making Games (Was Spam: Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server) Damion Schubert
- Threading and Queues (What Fun) Ben Chambers
- Threading and Queues (What Fun) Sean Miller
- Threading and Queues (What Fun) szii@sziisoft.com
- Threading and Queues (What Fun) lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Marian Griffith
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Scott Miller - Intelligent Life Games
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Thomas Tomiczek
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) J C Lawrence
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Scott Miller - Intelligent Life Games
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Travis Casey
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Weston Fryatt
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Edward Glowacki
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Edward Glowacki
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Thomas Tomiczek
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Bruce Mitchener
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Thomas Tomiczek
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design ceo
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Damion Schubert
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Jeremy Noetzelman
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Weston Fryatt
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Jeremy Noetzelman
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Weston Fryatt
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Weston Fryatt
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Damion Schubert
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design ceo
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Sean Kelly
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design John Buehler
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Sean Kelly
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Thomas Tomiczek
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Keith Brewer
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Mike Shaver
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Keith Brewer
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Mike Shaver
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Ted L. Chen
- Movie-Making Games (Was Spam: Star Wars Scott Jennings
- Movie-Making Games (Was Spam: Star Wars ceo
- Multithreading: AI, Sockets, Brains, Bodies, and Storage Brian Lindahl
- Multithreading: AI, Sockets, Brains, Bodies, and Storage J C Lawrence
- Multithreading: AI, Sockets, Brains, Bodies, and Storage J C Lawrence
- Multithreading: AI, Sockets, Brains, Bodies, and Storage Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Tom Sullivan
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? J C Lawrence
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Tom Sullivan
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? J C Lawrence
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Mark Cheverton
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Stephane Boisjoli
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Hourly usage Peter Tyson
- Hourly usage lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- Hourly usage Michael Tresca
- In this corner.representing SCS.The Tyrant! F. Randall Farmer
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Mike Shaver
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Travis Nixon
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Amanda Walker
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ted L. Chen
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ben Hoyt
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ben Hoyt
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ben Hoyt
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ben Hoyt
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- workload simulation (was: MMORPG/MMOG Server design) Mike Shaver
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design - intel-ligent choices of hardware ; ) ceo
- workload simulation (was: MMORPG/MMOG Server design) ceo
- Team management Peter Harkins
- Team management Tom Sullivan
- Team management Sanvean
- Team management Michael Tresca
- Virtual worlds meet LARPs Richard A. Bartle
- Virtual worlds meet LARPs Mark Cheverton
- Virtual worlds meet LARPs Richard A. Bartle
- Virtual worlds meet LARPs Lee Sheldon
- Skotos Kicks Off Associate Program Shannon Appelcline
- Infrastructure kat-Zygfryd