February 2003
- Announcing Game Programming Gems 4 Andrew Kirmse
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Paul Schwanz
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Koster, Raph
- Secondary characters as a mechanic adam
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Ted L. Chen
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Rayzam
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Michael Tresca
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Serafina Pechan
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Damion Schubert
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Secondary characters as a mechanic John Buehler
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Edward Glowacki
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Wes Connell
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Harrok
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Brian Hook
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Adam
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Russ Whiteman
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Valerio Santinelli
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Adam Burr
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Valerio Santinelli
- Secondary characters as a mechanic Adam Burr
- Limited character lifespans Dan Shiovitz
- Limited character lifespans Richard Krush
- Limited character lifespans Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Limited character lifespans Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Limited character lifespans shren
- Limited character lifespans Paul Cobb
- Limited character lifespans Rayzam
- Limited character lifespans Sasha Hart
- Limited character lifespans Paul Schwanz
- Limited character lifespans Damion Schubert
- Limited character lifespans David H. Loeser Jr.
- How to Find a VC Michael Tresca
- How to Find a VC Koster, Raph
- How to Find a VC Amanda Walker
- How to Find a VC Marc Fielding
- Re:Secondary characters as a mechanic Thiago Moraes
- AP Wire story on activism in MMOG games Marc Fielding
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Chris
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Paul Schwanz
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Dave Rickey
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? John Buehler
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Damion Schubert
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? John Buehler
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? ceo
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Marian Griffith
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Dave Rickey
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Lee Sheldon
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Paul Schwanz
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Lee Sheldon
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Ron Gabbard
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Damion Schubert
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Paul Schwanz
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Zach Collins {Siege}
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Amanda Walker
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? J C Lawrence
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Chris Holko
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Dave Rickey
- MMORPG, buildings, is it bad to be just props? Koster, Raph
- Predictive models for churn in subscription based games Scott A. Farley
- Predictive models for churn in subscription based games Damion Schubert
- Mud Servers on RedHat Linux 7.2 Coyote
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Ron Gabbard
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Sasha Hart
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Paul Schwanz
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Damion Schubert
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Ron Gabbard
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Marc Fielding
- Protecting the Player's Suspension of Disbelief Serafina Pechan
- Asian markets research question Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev conference J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev conference J C Lawrence
- Re:Secondary characters as a mechanic Thiago Moraes
- Re:Secondary characters as a mechanic Sasha Hart
- Gaming 'is good for you' Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Gaming 'is good for you' Daniel
- Skill vs Knowledge (was: Brand Loyalty) ceo
- Skill vs Knowledge (was: Brand Loyalty) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- FW: Cultural impact on Muds (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Damion Schubert
- Cultural impact on Muds Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Rudy Fink
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Damion Schubert
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Marc Fielding
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? eric
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? J C Lawrence
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? eric
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Zach Collins {Siege}
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? eric
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Matt Mihaly
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? Steven J. Owens
- Justification for audit trails in guilds? chrep@hotmail.com
- New issue of the Daedalus Project Koster, Raph
- New issue of the Daedalus Project Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Movie-Making Games (Was Spam: Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server) Damion Schubert
- Movie-Making Games (Was Spam: Star Wars Galaxies: 1 character per server) Damion Schubert
- Threading and Queues (What Fun) Ben Chambers
- Threading and Queues (What Fun) Sean Miller
- Threading and Queues (What Fun) szii@sziisoft.com
- Threading and Queues (What Fun) lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Marian Griffith
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Scott Miller - Intelligent Life Games
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Thomas Tomiczek
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) J C Lawrence
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Scott Miller - Intelligent Life Games
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Travis Casey
- A new game paradigm (was: Star Wars Galaxies) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Weston Fryatt
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Edward Glowacki
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Edward Glowacki
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Thomas Tomiczek
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Bruce Mitchener
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Thomas Tomiczek
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design ceo
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Damion Schubert
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Jeremy Noetzelman
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Weston Fryatt
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Jeremy Noetzelman
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Weston Fryatt
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Weston Fryatt
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Damion Schubert
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design ceo
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 03:49:41 +0000
ceo <ceo@grexengine.com> wrote:
> J C Lawrence wrote:
>> On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 08:56:59 -0500 Derek Licciardi
>> <kressilac@insightbb.com> wrote:
> I've seen at least a couple of academics, and even practising software
> engineers, give the advice:
> "Never leave a piece of code alone until its as generic as you can >
> possibly make it."
I've been given the same advice, and to an extent recommend and follow
it. To an extent. When writing new code I try and genericise it as
much as I can without giving myself extra work. I do this for two
reasons: when I understand the problem in utterly generic problems I can
be confident that I actually understand the problem, and generic code
*tends* to be easier to write and smaller once you get the right
genericy level. In the cases where the generic version is smaller,
faster, simpler I write that, otherwise I write the tightly bound
version because that's smaller, faster, simpler. However I deconstruct
down to the point where I feel I can make that an educated choice.
> I think the key point (to any unbelievers out there ;) is to consider
> whether you work in an environment where you tend to know well the
> problem space in advance of writing code. There are industries where
> this is almost always true; friends in Financial Services development
> go all wide-eyed and disbelieving when they hear that there exist
> professional developers who actually DARE to work in any other way :).
Aye, 12 years ago I worked in areas like that.
> AFAICS, there are very few people in MMOG development who have such a
> luxury (and they aren't working on anything "interesting").
I suspect we won't for years yet.
> However, let me suggest a Third Way (particular to MMOGs / MUDs). This
> might not be a good idea (I've not tried it out much ):
> Architecture != Server Application != Game.
> Arch + Server App + Game == the development project
Internally I tend to view it as:
Requirements == The Dream (It was a nice dream, warm, fuzzy, and..)
Architecture == The Vision (Follow me men, here's the plan!)
Implementation == Childbirth (It was fun to start, uncomfortable but
exciting to develop, painful and bloody
to birth, and scary as heck for the
future)
Which translates rather well to architecture/server/game, revealing that
its really just a naming of the standard three planning divisions.
Much of our personal understanding of each of those steps is strobed.
We've snapshot singular experiences or point understandings (an incident
with an old fart engineer, an off comment by an excellent manager, an
insight from a hobby horse project) that we try and string together into
something well tell ourselves in a cohesive whole, and in isolation they
work rather well. Its when you put them together, in a real world that
the glue comes out of the joints.
> Say what? Sorry :). The point of these simple observations is that
> they are the basis for seeing that there are mulitple simultaneous
> valid views of the development - and, fortunately, there are things we
> do actually know very well in each of them, but these things tend to
> have little overlap. You should be able (unless you *really* know
> nothing at all about server development - but you can address this by
> doing some mugging up on the web, and searching MUD-DEV archives for
> subject-lines containing "server" :) ) to design and implement some
> small percentage of each of the three components first-time round
> almost perfectly (very minor changes accepted).
Only if you predefine your audience rather exclusively. Doing that
across your three components is non-trivial. We might like to think its
all easy stuff, and in truth it is (I'd likely gag and stumble on some
of the game points), but it requires both a breadth and a depth of
understanding that is all too rare. Think: How many engineers have you
dealt with who just have absolutely no sense of architecture or overall
pattern to a project? Sadly, for me, its been the majority.
> If you then stop, take a step back, and try and rationalize each of
> these bits in each of the other two components, it's time to take the
> YAGNI approach. The advantage is that you are using YAGNI to bridge
> between what are actually (or should be) exceptionally well-defined
> and well-understood components; this means that you're likely to be
> forced into a pretty decent result after only a few iterations.
I've found YAGNI valuable in the opposite direction: from the trivial
components on up. It encourages in me a clearer understanding of which
bits actually are skeleton, are factually essential (and not just
wanted/liked), and a much better understanding of what the dependency
graph is for the desired functionality (as versus the implementation).
> After that, you're on your own; <waves magic wand, and ignores the
> hard parts>.
*poof*
> I'm hoping this can avoid iteration-itis. Waterfalls, spirals, etc are
> all very well and good, but from what I've seen there's often no
> simple answer (and no easy decision) to "when to stop?" in a nice,
> big, complex - probably distributed - system.
Given that specifications in research projects (anything in a field
which contains significant mysteries) will creep by definition, and that
feature compleat is a function of the learning curve in defining a
project which in turn is a function of the learning curve of researching
the space...means you're dealing with human perception and second
guesses. <shrug> Or am I merely being too cynical again?
--
J C Lawrence
---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live. - MMORPG/MMOG Server design Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Sean Kelly
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design John Buehler
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Sean Kelly
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Thomas Tomiczek
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Keith Brewer
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design J C Lawrence
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Mike Shaver
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Keith Brewer
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Mike Shaver
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design Ted L. Chen
- Movie-Making Games (Was Spam: Star Wars Scott Jennings
- Movie-Making Games (Was Spam: Star Wars ceo
- Multithreading: AI, Sockets, Brains, Bodies, and Storage Brian Lindahl
- Multithreading: AI, Sockets, Brains, Bodies, and Storage J C Lawrence
- Multithreading: AI, Sockets, Brains, Bodies, and Storage J C Lawrence
- Multithreading: AI, Sockets, Brains, Bodies, and Storage Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Tom Sullivan
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? J C Lawrence
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Tom Sullivan
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? J C Lawrence
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Mark Cheverton
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Stephane Boisjoli
- Perl - SOAP/XML - Slow? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Hourly usage Peter Tyson
- Hourly usage lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- Hourly usage Michael Tresca
- In this corner.representing SCS.The Tyrant! F. Randall Farmer
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Mike Shaver
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Travis Nixon
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Amanda Walker
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ted L. Chen
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ben Hoyt
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ben Hoyt
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Felix A. Croes
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ben Hoyt
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Ben Hoyt
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design lynx@lynx.purrsia.com
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Crosbie Fitch
- workload simulation (was: MMORPG/MMOG Server design) Mike Shaver
- MMORPG/MMOG Server design - intel-ligent choices of hardware ; ) ceo
- workload simulation (was: MMORPG/MMOG Server design) ceo
- Team management Peter Harkins
- Team management Tom Sullivan
- Team management Sanvean
- Team management Michael Tresca
- Virtual worlds meet LARPs Richard A. Bartle
- Virtual worlds meet LARPs Mark Cheverton
- Virtual worlds meet LARPs Richard A. Bartle
- Virtual worlds meet LARPs Lee Sheldon
- Skotos Kicks Off Associate Program Shannon Appelcline
- Infrastructure kat-Zygfryd