August 1999

• Game design and gender: An interesting article Nathan F Yospe
• • Game design and gender: An interesting article Jon A. Lambert
  • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
    • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Jeremy Music "Sterling"
      • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Cynbe ru Taren
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Matthew Mihaly
          • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
            • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Ben Greear
              • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Albert
          • Game design and gender: An interesting article Koster, Raph
          • Game design and gender: An interesting article Laurel Fan
          • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
            • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Willowreed@aol.com
              • Game design and gender: An interesting article Albert
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Koster, Raph
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Adam Wiggins
          • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
      • Game design and gender: An interesting article Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Matthew Mihaly
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Adam Wiggins
          • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
            • Game design and gender: An interesting article Matthew Mihaly
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Mik Clarke
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Game design and gender: An interesting article Greg Miller
• question about tile-based games Chris Gray
• • question about tile-based games Scott Boding
  • question about tile-based games Jeremy Music "Sterling"
  • • question about tile-based games Katrina McClelan
    • • question about tile-based games Caliban Tiresias Darklock
      • • question about tile-based games Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
        • • question about tile-based games Chris Gray
    • question about tile-based games AR Schleicher
  • question about tile-based games Wes Connell
  • question about tile-based games AR Schleicher
  • • question about tile-based games Wes Connell
• Mud Census? Timothy O'Neill Dang
• MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Par Winzell
• • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Dr. Cat
  • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
• MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Par Winzell
• • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
• MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Wes Connell
• • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
    • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Colin Coghill
      • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
      • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
        • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Miroslav Silovic
            • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
              • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
          • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
            • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
              • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
        • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
        • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
            • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
              • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
                • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
          • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Wes Connell
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Albert
          • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
            • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
              • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
                • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
                  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
              • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
              • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
                • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
                • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
                    • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: Matthew Mihaly [mailto:diablo@best.com]
                        > Sent: Wednesday, September 01, 1999 12:10 AM
                        > To: mud-dev@kanga.nu
                        > Subject: RE: [MUD-Dev] Re: MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs
                        >
                        > Thank god no. I'm interested in systems where experience gives a big
                        > advantage. My players would view it as a waste of time if a
                        > newbie could
                        > drop a thousand dollars on his character and suddenly kick
                        > even the best
                        > fighters rears. As I've stated, our combat is a sport, in my
                        > opinion, and
                        > like in any sport, experience counts for a lot. No one walks onto the
                        > basketball court for the first time with a prayer in hell of beating
                        > Michael Jordan.
                        
                        Jonathan Baron's point on this, as abstracted in the Laws:
                        
                        start quote--->
                        Baron's Design Dichotomy
                        According to Jonathan Baron, there are two kinds of online games:
                        Achievement Oriented, and Cumulative Character. In the former, the players
                        who "win" do so because they they are the best at whatever the game offers.
                        Their glory is achieved by shaming other players. In the latter, anyone can
                        reach the pinnacle of achievement by mere persistence; the game is driven by
                        sheer unadulterated capitalism.
                        <---end quote
                        
                        Now that I re-read this, it isn't all that clear. :) The dichotomy is in
                        where the skill is: whether it's in the player, or in his virtual
                        representation. In a way you can divide this into "sport" to use your term,
                        and just "game" wherein actual player skill doesn't count for much.
                        
                        > > Have you ever met anyone who claims to be undefeatable at
                        > > rock/paper/scissors? Nope. Why? Because you *can't* be undefeatable.
                        > > Elegant, isn't it?
                        >
                        > Pointless elegance insofar as I'm concerned. Maybe nice as a
                        > party game
                        > where everyone can play and have a reasonable chance of
                        > success, but not a
                        > lasting entertainment.
                        
                        Last weekend I was in Las Vegas, and I attended the world championship
                        Descent3 tournament. Those guys were just $%*@!#!@ unbelievable at that
                        game. Afterwards they held a LAN party and the winners of the competition
                        were going to play. I left--no way I was joining THAT arena.
                        
                        The problem with an online game that is a sport is that it sets a natural
                        ceiling on its potential audience--only a fraction of the potential
                        playerbase out there has the reflexes or innate *player-side* skill to
                        compete. You can compensate for this, but it manifests even in RPGs which
                        are heavily character-oriented (eg, where skill is a character statistic,
                        and mere persistence can make you a badass). It's a common sight in most any
                        PvP mud to see a poorly equipped expert defeat a group of well-equipped
                        novices.
                        
                        Is it lasting entertainment to be a sport? Of course. The competition
                        against others at that level of play means endless challenge. The game
                        becomes infinite, because it shifts from being a simple ladder model to
                        being a "king of the hill" model. But it may not be as open to the general
                        public, who isn't going to sign up to be shamed. Which you may not care
                        about, of course.
                        
                        The vast majority of Quake players (and Descent, and Tribes) play only with
                        friends. Not with the general populace. And it's for this reason, IMHO.
                        
                        As far as retention goes--the trick to an online game has got to be how you
                        make the lower reaches of the game rock-paper-scissors, and when the player
                        outgrows it, how you can migrate the learning they have had into the sport
                        part.
                        
                        -Raph
                • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
  • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
    • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
        • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
  • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
• Designing fun sims. (was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
• • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
    • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Colin Coghill
      • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Sellers, Michael
        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Matthew Mihaly
          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
          • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Sellers, Michael
      • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
              • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Jon A. Lambert
                • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
                • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
                    • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                      • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
                        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
                        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
                          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
                            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
                              • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                                • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
                                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis Casey
                                  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                          • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
                        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Robin Cloutman
                        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
                            • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
                          • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Laurel Fan
                          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Mik Clarke
                      • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                      • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                    • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Timothy O'Neill Dang
                  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
                  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                    • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                    • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
                      • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
                        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
              • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Chris Turner
              • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Chris Turner
          • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
            • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
              • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
    • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
    • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
      • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
• Balancing issues (renamed) Marian Griffith
• Singleton design pattern (OT?) Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
• • Singleton design pattern (OT?) Wayne Pearson
  • Singleton design pattern (OT?) Cynbe ru Taren
  • • Singleton design pattern (OT?) Adam Wiggins
• OT: My absence J C Lawrence
• ScryMUD: News update (Opening to the Public on the 4th of September!) Ben Greear