August 1999
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Nathan F Yospe
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Jon A. Lambert
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Cynbe ru Taren
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Matthew Mihaly
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Koster, Raph
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Laurel Fan
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Willowreed@aol.com
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Albert
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Koster, Raph
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Adam Wiggins
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Matthew Mihaly
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Adam Wiggins
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Matthew Mihaly
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game design and gender: An interesting article Greg Miller
- question about tile-based games Chris Gray
- question about tile-based games Scott Boding
- question about tile-based games Jeremy Music "Sterling"
- question about tile-based games Katrina McClelan
- question about tile-based games Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- question about tile-based games Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- question about tile-based games Chris Gray
- question about tile-based games AR Schleicher
- question about tile-based games Wes Connell
- question about tile-based games AR Schleicher
- question about tile-based games Wes Connell
- Mud Census? Timothy O'Neill Dang
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Par Winzell
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Par Winzell
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Wes Connell
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Colin Coghill
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Miroslav Silovic
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Wes Connell
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
- Designing fun sims. (was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Colin Coghill
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Sellers, Michael
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Matthew Mihaly
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Sellers, Michael
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Jon A. Lambert
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis Casey
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Robin Cloutman
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Laurel Fan
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Mik Clarke
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Timothy O'Neill Dang
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
On Thu, 16 Sep 1999 14:15:51 GMT
Dundee <SkeptAck@antisocial.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 15 Sep 1999 23:10:23 -0700 Thu, 16 Sep 1999 01:12:37 CST,
> J C Lawrence <claw@varesearch.com> wrote:
>> A few days later others have been beating up on their Fireball
>> skill, unbeknownst to me, and the ratios, and my position within
>> the ratios, have changed. Now my fireball spell succeeds one
>> tenth of the time. GooGoo eats my arse.
>>
>> Predictability dies.
> Sounds like you want to see GooGoo's stats.
No, I want to have reasonable certainty that if I can throw a spear
today and split a chicken at 50 yards that I can do the same thing
tomorrow in otherwise similar conditions. The use of the venerable
Great God GooGoo and his possession of stats in the example is
purely incidental.
> The mobs would have ratios, too (essentially, the mobs get the
> average ratio plus or minus some "weak mob" or "tough mob"
> modifier), and those would change - at least relative to any given
> player - just as your own ratios change.
Yes, yes, of course. That doesn't change the loss of
predictability.
> So it's not *just* that your skills decayed (unbeknownst to you),
> because in fact they didn't decay, but the mobs' skills can also
> change, from time to time. Hopefully nothing too drastic.
Surely. This is not a problem. It would take very little time
playing this game to realise that one's ability to "beat" a
particular mobile is not fixed, and in fact seems variant on factors
outside ones control. *THAT* in itself is not a bad thing. It is
just a different kind of predictability, and one that has some
comparison to RL (people do improve, have bad days etc).
Conversely, while there is some value in having support for Good
Days and Bad Days (cf my long earlier discussions on probability
fields), this is a modifier of a base ability to predict:
I should be able to split a chicken at 50 yards with a spear. My
exact ratio of success may vary a little bit over time if only due
to environmental and historical conditions, but not to the extent of
splitting 50 in a row one day and missing the damn thing by yards
the next (outside of magical influences etc).
>> Supporting predictability, in general, especially if it is player
>> extrapolation of observed phenomena is a Good Thing as it
>> directly leads to logical consistency (it does it here, it does
>> it there, therefor it does it everywhere) and a sense of location
>> and world.
> Doesn't the model of static mobs and dynamic PCs sort of run
> contrary to that idea though?
Actually it supports it, and yes, it sucks. The problem with
predictability is that while it is a Good Thing, too much is also a
Bad Thing.
You have to have risk and the unknown.
> I mean, the player get better or worse at skills, but the mobs are
> always the same.... when they are really all supposed to be
> creatures of the world, after all.
True.
> I guess it might just be a degree of how drastically the average
> stats might change in a given period of time?
No, the concetration is not on variance in the behaviour of things
outside of the character, but variance in the characters behaviour
and abilities.
The following is Bad:
> l
There is a locked door here.
> examine lock
It looks very simple and crude.
> l inside lock
It is a very simple lock with a single pawl sitting in a recess.
> pick lock
The lock falls open.
> open door
Okay.
>close door
Okay.
> lock door
You close the lock.
> pick lock
The lock falls open.
> lock door.
...time passes...
> pick lock
You can't pick this lock for the life of you!
>> Losing that predictability is actually a betrayal, by the game
>> designer, of the player, his observations and understanding of
>> the game world. This is not necessarily a Bad Thing, but it is
>> not a thing to do gratuitously and with great selection.
> Yah... but as I said, hopefully there wouldn't be any drastic
> over-night changes.
<nod>
> But those were all raising the same concern I think: How to keep
> the mud-average from changing drastically and suddenly so that
> players would be able to reasonably predict how skilled they
> really were. GooGoo could gradually get more or less powerful,
> but no fair if you can whip him one day and he hands you your head
> the next.
Quite.
Perhaps some sort of rolling average?
--
J C Lawrence Life: http://www.kanga.nu/ Home: claw@kanga.nu
---------(*) Work (Linux/IA64): claw@varesearch.com
... Beware of cromagnons wearing chewing gum and palm pilots ... - The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Chris Turner
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Chris Turner
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
- The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
- Balancing issues (renamed) Marian Griffith
- Singleton design pattern (OT?) Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
- Singleton design pattern (OT?) Wayne Pearson
- Singleton design pattern (OT?) Cynbe ru Taren
- Singleton design pattern (OT?) Adam Wiggins
- OT: My absence J C Lawrence
- ScryMUD: News update (Opening to the Public on the 4th of September!) Ben Greear