August 1999

• Game design and gender: An interesting article Nathan F Yospe
• • Game design and gender: An interesting article Jon A. Lambert
  • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
      On Sun 08 Aug, Jon A. Lambert wrote:
      > From: Nathan F Yospe:
      
      Not going to attempt to provide the 'definite' answer to this question :)
      
      > >Found this article recently... it's an old one, but still relevant for a
      > >number of us. I've been thinking about putting in more support for some
      > >sort of established societies (albeit still in the war zone) in the game
      > >platform for Physmud...
      
      You will have a hard time attracting players who enjoy that sort of thing
      if they perceive your game as a battlefield. They probably have the same
      reaction to your game I had when I walked into a computergame shop: *ICK*
      Even if there is something I might like in this shop, the shelves are so
      packed with things that are obviously designed to appeal to men that I am
      not going to try to find it. Just watching those shelf after shelf with
      images of overly muscled men, demons, explosions and scantily clad women
      in submissive positions I get the impression of being in another kind of
      shop altogether.
      If your game looks like a war zone then you will attract players who like
      to fight things. The social aspect is unlikely to be noticed.
      
      > Do you mean social themes or activities that appeal to a female audience?
      > I've always thought, based on your past posts, that Physmud would attract
      > a strong following of those that would also enjoy Asimov, Heinlein and
      > Clarke. Based on that assumption, and it is just that, would this
      > tend to "turn-off" a female audience?
      
      Part of what I see as the whole problem with the boy vs girl games i that
      it assumes all boys and all girls like the same things. Barbie fashion
      designer is wasted on me (and not just because I detest Mattel :) Girls
      are as varied in their interests as are boys. To a large extend those in-
      terests overlap. You will find girls who like to go out and blow things
      up in a game, and you will find boys who like to talk with friends and do
      some entirely innocent things. Most of the time they will like to do dif-
      ferent things at different times.
      
      There is no such thing as an emergent girl game market. There is only the
      anti-girl marketing. If you present the game as: slaughter the monsters,
      safe the world and get the girl, you are unlikely to appeal to me, or any
      other female. Putting an overmuscled man defending an underdressed woman
      from the evil hordes on the box is also unlikely to appeal to girls. The
      game may be fun but we are unlikely to ever find out, and if we are young
      we are unlikely to ever get the chance to play it as our parents are not
      going to buy such a game for us (though they might for our brothers).
      
      That said I also believe that a game were you must 'feel' and 'think' is
      more likely to appeal to girls. If you take a look at games that did well
      with a female audience: Myst, Tetris and Creatures, they have little in
      common other than being gender neutral and well-crafted. Myst has a story
      that you can empathise with. Creatures is constructive, Tetris is neither
      but is competitive in an abstract way. What these games lack is the blood
      and explosions.
      
      I have been given a demo of a game called Starcraft. It is obviously one
      of the games aimed at boys. I found it telling that the only female char-
      acter in the game is a medic. Did I like it? In a way yes. But I found
      myself wanting to do things the game did not allow me. The building of a
      colony appealed more to me than going out and messily blow creatures up.
      The splatter factor was in fact a turn off for me, though I found that it
      was something several of the males ooohed at. I wanted to play those in-
      sect-like creatures and find out how to build up a colony for them. And I
      almost immediately started to redesign the game, by thinking of creatures
      I wanted to add just to make the colony more complete, and even thinking
      of entirely new races that might be interesting to play. I do not think
      this points at a basic difference between men and women, but more at a
      general lack of games that exist today. Addressing these issues will draw
      more girls to games, but will also attract more boys.
      
      > ><http://www.salon.com/21st/feature/1997/12/cov_10feature.html>
      
      > >I don't know what this really means to me, but it isn't insignificant...
      
      > I believe I had read this article or another interview with some of the
      > same participants. In any event, I came away with similar impressions
      > from both. Apparently many of these designers are quite torn
      > on the issue of whether any given game is a "good game" for girls or a
      > game that is "good for girls". The latter seems driven by a social agenda.
      > The consensus of the elite thinkers being that Barbie Fashion Designer
      > is somehow not a good game because it teaches the wrong things
      > to girls. In any event, Barbie is perhaps a much younger audience than
      > many of us intend to serve in muds. The lessons of it do apply though to
      > differences in older audiences.
      
      > Well I do know that games that are "good for boys" get shelved in favor of
      > just plain old "good games". There's no reason to believe the same is not
      > true of girls.
      
      > An aside. While the notion that game machines, because of low-memory,
      > are more conducive to "twitch" style gaming is accurate, the idea that game
      > machines were intentionally designed to have low-memory because they
      > were designed by men is laughable. At least that's my take on the
      > interviewee's position.
      
      My impression was that she said that consoles were designed to be best
      for games that the designers liked best. Since they were boys they did
      like boy-games, and designed machines for boy-games. This implies low
      memory, lots of visual effects and shallow stories in exchange of fast
      action. As a result we are now stuck with machines that are incapable
      of anything else, and only get those games. As she said, nothing nefa-
      rious, just the way the industry works.
      
      Marian
      --
      Yes - at last - You. I Choose you. Out of all the world,
      out of all the seeking, I have found you, young sister of
      my heart! You are mine and I am yours - and never again
      will there be loneliness ...
      
      Rolan Choosing Talia,
      Arrows of the Queen, by Mercedes Lackey
    • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Jeremy Music "Sterling"
      • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Cynbe ru Taren
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Matthew Mihaly
          • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
            • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Ben Greear
              • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Albert
          • Game design and gender: An interesting article Koster, Raph
          • Game design and gender: An interesting article Laurel Fan
          • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
            • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Willowreed@aol.com
              • Game design and gender: An interesting article Albert
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Koster, Raph
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Adam Wiggins
          • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
      • Game design and gender: An interesting article Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Matthew Mihaly
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Adam Wiggins
          • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Caliban Tiresias Darklock
            • Game design and gender: An interesting article Matthew Mihaly
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Mik Clarke
        • Game design and gender: An interesting article Marian Griffith
        • • Game design and gender: An interesting article Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • Game design and gender: An interesting article Greg Miller
• question about tile-based games Chris Gray
• • question about tile-based games Scott Boding
  • question about tile-based games Jeremy Music "Sterling"
  • • question about tile-based games Katrina McClelan
    • • question about tile-based games Caliban Tiresias Darklock
      • • question about tile-based games Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
        • • question about tile-based games Chris Gray
    • question about tile-based games AR Schleicher
  • question about tile-based games Wes Connell
  • question about tile-based games AR Schleicher
  • • question about tile-based games Wes Connell
• Mud Census? Timothy O'Neill Dang
• MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Par Winzell
• • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Dr. Cat
  • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
• MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Par Winzell
• • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
• MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Wes Connell
• • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
    • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Colin Coghill
      • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
      • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
        • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Miroslav Silovic
            • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
              • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
          • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
            • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
              • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
        • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
        • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
            • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Mik Clarke
              • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
                • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
          • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Wes Connell
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Albert
          • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
          • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
            • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
              • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
                • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
                  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
              • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
              • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
                • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
                • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
                    • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
                • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
  • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
    • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
        • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Ola Fosheim Grøstad
    • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Greg Miller
  • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Marian Griffith
  • • MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs Matthew Mihaly
• Designing fun sims. (was MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #142 - 4 msgs) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
• The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
• • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
    • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Colin Coghill
      • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Sellers, Michael
        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Matthew Mihaly
          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
          • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Sellers, Michael
      • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
      • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, SCC, Game Commando
        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
              • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Jon A. Lambert
                • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
                • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
                    • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                      • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Koster, Raph
                        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
                        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
                        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
                          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
                            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
                              • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                                • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
                                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis Casey
                                  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                          • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
                        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Robin Cloutman
                        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
                            • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
                          • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Laurel Fan
                          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Mik Clarke
                      • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                      • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                    • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Timothy O'Neill Dang
                  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
                  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
                    • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                    • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
                      • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                        • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
                        • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
                  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Travis S. Casey
              • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Chris Turner
              • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
                • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Chris Turner
          • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
          • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ilya, Game Commandos
            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
            • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
            • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Ola Fosheim Grøstad
              • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Caliban Tiresias Darklock
                • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
  • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Adam Wiggins
    • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing J C Lawrence
    • • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Wes Connell
      • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Greg Miller
  • The Best Guy on the Mud Thing Dundee
• Balancing issues (renamed) Marian Griffith
• Singleton design pattern (OT?) Eli Stevens {KiZurich}
• • Singleton design pattern (OT?) Wayne Pearson
  • Singleton design pattern (OT?) Cynbe ru Taren
  • • Singleton design pattern (OT?) Adam Wiggins
• OT: My absence J C Lawrence
• ScryMUD: News update (Opening to the Public on the 4th of September!) Ben Greear