February 2007

• [Design] Personal virtual worlds Lachek Butalek
• • [Design] Personal virtual worlds Mike Rozak
• Old MUD-Dev mailing list archives Nick Koranda
• • Old MUD-Dev mailing list archives Raph Koster
• [ALL PLEASE READ - FROM MODERATOR] Nick Koranda
• [Design] Avoiding the uncanny valley: cartoons and animals Mike Rozak
• • [Design] Avoiding the uncanny valley: cartoons and animals cruise
  • • [Design] Avoiding the uncanny valley: cartoons andanimals Mike Rozak
    • • [Design] Avoiding the uncanny valley: cartoons andanimals cruise
      • • [Design] Avoiding the uncanny valley: cartoons andanimals Johnicholas Hines
        • • [Design] Avoiding the uncanny valley: cartoons andanimals Caliban Darklock
• stock market mechanisms in muds Johnicholas Hines
• • stock market mechanisms in muds John Buehler
  • stock market mechanisms in muds Acius
  • • stock market mechanisms in muds Daniel James
  • stock market mechanisms in muds Matt Chatterley
  • • stock market mechanisms in muds Johnicholas Hines
  • stock market mechanisms in muds Chapman, Greg
• Imaginary Realities mirror Richard Tew
• • Imaginary Realities mirror Michael Hartman
• Old MUD-Dev mailing list archives Peter Harkins
• [DESIGN] AJAX Client/Servers? Phillip Lenhardt
• • [DESIGN] AJAX Client/Servers? Morris Cox
  • • [DESIGN] AJAX Client/Servers? John Bertoglio
    • [DESIGN] AJAX Client/Servers? Morris Cox
  • [DESIGN] AJAX Client/Servers? Jeremy Noetzelman
  • [DESIGN] AJAX Client/Servers? Alex Arnon
  • [DESIGN] AJAX Client/Servers? Squid
• Old MUD-Dev mailing list archives Ghilardi Filippo
• • Old MUD-Dev mailing list archives Darryl Woodford
• stock market mechanisms in muds Raph Koster
• [DESIGN] AJAX Client/Servers? John Bertoglio
• [Design]Characters moving between worlds [was Personal virtual worlds] Mike Rozak
• • [Design]Characters moving between worlds [was Personalvirtual worlds] Michael Sellers
  • • [Design]Characters moving between worlds [was Personal virtual worlds] Caliban Darklock
    • • [Design]Characters moving between worlds [was Personalvirtual worlds] John Buehler
      • • [Design]Characters moving between worlds [wasPersonalvirtual worlds] Michael Sellers
      • [Design]Characters moving between worlds [was Personalvirtual worlds] Michael Sellers
      • • [Design]Characters moving between worlds [was Personalvirtual worlds] Jeffrey Kesselman
        • [Design]Characters moving between worlds [was Personalvirtual worlds] Caliban Darklock
    • [Design]Characters moving between worlds [wasPersonalvirtual worlds] Dave Scheffer
    • • [Design]Characters moving between worlds[wasPersonalvirtual worlds] Michael Sellers
  • [Design]Characters moving between worlds [was Personal virtual worlds] Jeffrey Kesselman
• Old MUD-Dev mailing list archives Ghilardi Filippo
• [Design] A rant against MMORPG installs and initial user experience Mike Rozak
• • [Design] A rant against MMORPG installs and initial userexperience Michael Sellers
  • [Design] A rant against MMORPG installs and initial user experience Tess Snider
  • • [Design] A rant against MMORPG installs and initial user experience Vincent Archer
• stock market mechanisms in muds Matt Chatterley
• • stock market mechanisms in muds Peter Keeler
  • • stock market mechanisms in muds Johnicholas Hines
  • [MUD-Dev2] Michael Sellers
• [Design] A rant against MMORPG installs and initial user experience Jeffrey Kesselman
• Mailing List Alternatives (was Old MUD-Dev mailing list archives) Morgan Ramsay
• • Mailing List Alternatives (was Old MUD-Dev mailing list archives) David Johansson
• [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Mike Rozak
• • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
  • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Lachek Butalek
  • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Jeffrey Kesselman
    • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Mike Rozak
    • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Sean Howard
      • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Mike Rozak
        • • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] cruise
          • • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] Jeffrey Kesselman
            • • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] Jeffrey Kesselman
              • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] cruise
              • • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] Sean Howard
                • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] Jeffrey Kesselman
                • • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] cruise
            • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] Damion Schubert
            • • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] Lachek Butalek
              • genre vs creativity [was: Rant against Vanguard] cruise
        • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Jeffrey Kesselman
        • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Sean Howard
          • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Adam Martin
            • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Sean Howard
              • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Mike Rozak
                • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Sean Howard
              • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants cruise
              • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Damion Schubert
                  • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Dana V. Baldwin
                    • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Amanda Walker
                    • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                  • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Dave Scheffer
                  • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Phillip Lenhardt
                  • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Caliban Darklock
      • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Vincent Archer
      • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Michael Sellers
      • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Caliban Darklock
        • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Dana V. Baldwin
          • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Caliban Darklock
            • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Michael Hartman
            • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Dana V. Baldwin
        • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
        • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
          • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
            • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
              • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
                • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                  • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
                    • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Vincent Archer
                      • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
                        • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Raph Koster
                      • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                      • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
                        • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                          • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
                            • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                              • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Michael Hartman
                                • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                                • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
                                • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                                  • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
                                    • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                                • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Damion Schubert
                                • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                                  • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Damion Schubert
                  • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Matt Chatterley
                  • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Damion Schubert
                  • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                    • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
                      On 03 March 2007, Damion Schubert wrote:
                      >See, I've always disagreed with this definition of 'depth' in a world's
                      >design. UO had, in my opinion, a shallow crafting system (compared to,
                      >say, ATITD), a shallow combat system (compared to, well, anyone), and
                      >very shallow world content (esp. compared to EQ). They did a whole
                      >bunch of things, but did none of them very deeply.
                      I agree that the depth of the gameplay wasn't any great shakes, but
                      I mean depth in terms of the world model. The world model for UO was deeper
                      than for EQ, for example the way that the various creatures interacted with
                      each other and the way the resources were managed.
                      That said, yes, the deeper the world model then in theory the
                      deeper the gameplay...
                      
                      >http://images.slashdot.org/articles/07/02/bcraids.jpg
                      This doesn't look like breadth to me. There's a large quantity of content,
                      yes, but this is a breadth thing ? player choice, size, number, variety,
                      form.
                      Depth is a player understanding thing - effects, complexity, ability,
                      function.
                      
                      >make no mistake about it, WoW provided a ton of depth that was aimed
                      directly
                      >at those they thought would dig deep to go find it: those people
                      >who raid 3 times a week and were decked out in purple gear a year before
                      >Burning Crusade went live.
                      It provided a ton of content, but I wouldn't say running MC 3 times a
                      week and having much the same experience every time was depth, whether in
                      terms of gameplay or world model.
                      
                      >2) Why are we only seeing depth in features that have been done before,
                      like
                      >combat and raiding?
                      >#2 is astonishingly easy to answer: because we haven't proven we can do it
                      >with any other system yet in a way that will get 200K+ subscribers
                      So the default assumption is that adding depth in those areas would
                      ruin the virtual world, therefore until we can find some existing world that
                      has those features and isn't ruined by them, we shouldn't add them?
                      Depth is more expensive, sure, and this could, I suppose, be an
                      argument for not having it (although as I said before, against the size of
                      the art team it's not necessarily all that much of an added expense). It
                      would be worrying if adding depth were seen as a potential world-breaking
                      feature which should be avoided unless backed up with evidence of its
                      working elsewhere, though.
                      
                      >1) Why aren't we seeing more broad games like UO?
                      >As for #1, well... I'd like to see more broad games. Unfortunately, the
                      >more systems that you have interacting, the more likely something
                      >incredibly broken will happen (UO is the Murphy in Murphy's Law here).
                      Then again, there's more chance that something incredibly original
                      will happen. Or, until designers learn more about how systems interact,
                      both...
                      
                      Richard
                • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Amanda Walker
                • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                  • [TECH DESIGN] Next Generation Infrastructure Phillip Lenhardt
                  • • [TECH DESIGN] Next Generation Infrastructure Lachek Butalek
                    • [TECH DESIGN] Next Generation Infrastructure Jeffrey Kesselman
                  • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Adam Martin
                  • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Amanda Walker
                    • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Adam Martin
                      • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Amanda Walker
                        • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Adam Martin
                      • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Daniel James
                    • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Sean Howard
                • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                  • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Sean Howard
                    • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                      • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Sean Howard
                        • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
                    • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Richard A. Bartle
                    • • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Phillip Lenhardt
                      • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants John Buehler
        • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Mike Rozak
  • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Sean Howard
• Re:[Humor] MMORPG Cliches (was " A rant against MMORPG installs and initialuserexperience") Mike Rozak
• [OFF-TOPIC] A rant against Vanguard reviews and rants Mike Rozak
• [OFF-TOPIC] GDC (and hello all) Adam Martin
• • [OFF-TOPIC] GDC (and hello all) Michael Sellers
• [OFF-TOPIC] GDC (and hello all) Raph Koster
• • [OFF-TOPIC] GDC (and hello all) Adam Martin
  • [OFF-TOPIC] GDC (and hello all) Jon Leonard
  • • [OFF-TOPIC] GDC (and hello all) Jeffrey Kesselman
    • [OFF-TOPIC] GDC (and hello all) Raph Koster
• [Design] A rant against MMORPG installs and initial user experience Vincent Archer
• • [Design] A rant against MMORPG installs and initial user experience Matt Chatterley
• [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard's diplomacy system Michael Sellers
• • [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard's diplomacy system cruise
  • • [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard's diplomacysystem Michael Sellers
    • • [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard's diplomacysystem Sean Howard
      • • [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard's diplomacysystem Caliban Darklock
    • [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard's diplomacysystem John Buehler
    • • [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard's diplomacysystem Lachek Butalek
    • [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard's diplomacysystem Raph Koster
    • • [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard's diplomacysystem cruise
      • • [DESIGN] Excellent commentary on Vanguard'sdiplomacysystem Raph Koster
• [OFF-TOPIC] A rant for Vanguard DANIEL Harman
• • [OFF-TOPIC] A rant for Vanguard Sean Howard
  • • [DESIGN] Music Industry teaching the Game Industry (Was: A rant for Vanguard) Nick Koranda
    • • [DESIGN] Music Industry teaching the Game Industry Sean Howard
      • [DESIGN] Music Industry teaching the Game Industry Morgan Ramsay
      • [DESIGN] Music Industry teaching the Game Industry Caliban Darklock
      • [DESIGN] Music Industry teaching the Game Industry Jeffrey Kesselman
      • [DESIGN] Music Industry teaching the Game Industry Adam Martin
      • [DESIGN] Music Industry teaching the Game Industry Christopher Allen
      • • [DESIGN] Music Industry teaching the Game Michael Sellers
• [OFF-TOPIC] GDC (and hello all) Raph Koster