July 2003
- Hackers Put 'Bane' in Shadowbane vladimir cole
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Phillip Lenhardt
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Owen Matt
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Thomas Tomiczek
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] ceo
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Corba + pvm for servers? + UML + case tools Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Material state transformations Yuri Bazhukov
- Material state transformations Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
- Material state transformations Zach Collins {Siege}
- Material state transformations Yuri Bazhukov
- Material state transformations Nicolai Hansen
- Material state transformations Jason Murdick
- Material state transformations Travis Casey
- Material state transformations McDonald, Stephen
- Material state transformations Zach Collins {Siege}
- Material state transformations Richard A. Bartle
- Material state transformations Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Programming Languages. Matthew Estes
- Programming Languages. Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Programming Languages. Matthew Estes
- Programming Languages. J C Lawrence
- Programming Languages. Christopher Kohnert
- Programming Languages. J C Lawrence
- Programming Languages. Christopher Kohnert
- Programming Languages. Bruce Mitchener
- Programming Languages. Roy Trubshaw
- Programming Languages. Richard A. Bartle
- Programming Languages. Roy Trubshaw
- Programming Languages. Richard A. Bartle
- Programming Languages. Roy Trubshaw
- Programming Languages. Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Programming Languages. MIKE MacMartin
- Programming Languages. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Programming Languages. Mike Shaver
- Programming Languages. MIKE MacMartin
- Programming Languages. Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Programming Languages. Bruce Mitchener
- Programming Languages. F. Randall Farmer
- Programming Languages. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Programming Languages. J C Lawrence
- Geographical space paritioning ceo
- Geographical space paritioning Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- R: The Price of Being Male Ghilardi Filippo
- Autumn books ceo
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Marc Bowden
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Paul Schwanz
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Jeff Cole
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Jeff Cole
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Crosbie Fitch
- Architecture (Cell Rebalancing) - working-sets ceo
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Michael Chui
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Ghovs
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes David Kennerly
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Shu-yu Guo {Laptop}
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Amanda Walker
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? David Kennerly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get originalwiththe gameplay? Derek Licciardi
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Paul Schwanz
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Matt Mihaly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Matt Mihaly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Sasha Hart
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? kennerly@sfsu.edu
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Sasha Hart
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Daniel James
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get originalwiththe gameplay? David Kennerly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Michael Tresca
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Martin Bassie
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Daniel James
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get originalwith the gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? J C Lawrence
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get origi nal with the gameplay? Christer Enfors XW {KS/EIN}
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Snicker Furfoot
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get origi nal with the gameplay? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Jason Smith
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Matt Mihaly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get origi nal with the gameplay? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? J C Lawrence
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Christopher Allen
- R: Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Ghilardi Filippo
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? Daniel Anderson
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? Paolo Piselli
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? Zach Collins {Siege}
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? John Buehler
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Eamonn O'Brien
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Kyuss
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Sasha Hart
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma de ath Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death David H. Loeser Jr.
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Sasha Hart
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Eamonn O'Brien
- RE:When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Mike Mormando
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Rayzam
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World J C Lawrence
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Peter Tyson
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Vincent Archer
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Travis Nixon
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Multithreading/accept? MIKE MacMartin
- Multithreading/accept? MIKE MacMartin
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- Java servers and hacking ceo
- Understanding MMOGs ceo
- R: Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues invirtualsocietes Ghilardi Filippo
- A proposed new law of online world design buddy@riseup.net
- A proposed new law of online world design Marc Bowden
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics J C Lawrence
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics Chris Holko
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics Matt Mihaly
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics Andrew L. Tepper
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Castronova, Edward
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Tess Snider
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Castronova, Edward
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Richard A. Bartle
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Castronova, Edward
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Richard A. Bartle
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Marian Griffith
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Amanda Walker
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Ren Reynolds
- Alternate Business Models Ben Tolputt
- To Kill an Avatar kennerly@sfsu.edu
- To Kill an Avatar Ren Reynolds
- To Kill an Avatar David Kennerly
- To Kill an Avatar Ren Reynolds
I agree with the majority of points in your post. I also agree with
a lot what Lessig writes too.
Lessig says 'Code is Law'. This is very snappy line, a great
meme. I'm not knocking this as I think Lessig's ability to sell his
ideas has got a lot of people thinking about some very important
things. But here we are unpacking the thought so we need to get
under its hood. There are two ways I think we can approach
this. First, we can take 'code is law' as a strong analogy and look
to see where it breaks down. Second, we can look relationships
between code, law, individuals, society etc., and look for the
unique bits.
To put it another way, what I think we are trying to understand here
is what is the role of code in the governance of virtual
communities? And when I say governance I mean this is a very broad
sense of the way that freedoms formed through the inter-relations of
players, developers, physical-world laws etc.
Taking your example of two games:
A) PK = OFF with players P and Q
B) PK = ON with players R and S
The code in game A is acting as a law in what I take to be Lessig's
sense as it is acting as a limit to action, in that is it is
preventing P from killing Q.
But it's doing much more than this. The fact of PK=OFF will change a
number of dynamics of game A, it also changes things at a more
fundamental level. Avatars P and Q in game A are different types of
things than avatars R and S in game B. Because of the nature of the
player killing attribute. For example, all other things being equal
I would imagine that the economic value of P and Q (in game A) would
be higher than R and S game B, as in B they are a less 'stable'.
Now let's assume that player P succeeds in killing Q and that player
R succeeds in killing S. To me these are different acts, and the
difference comes about through code.
I can see that you might say that I've suddenly broken the rules
here. You said that in game A player killing is not possible. I
guess I deny that this state exists. OK player-P might have had to
find an exploit in the code, or they might have actually had to
crack it to kill avatar-Q - but what if this is what they did do?
I think here we have an example where code is doing a lot more than
simply restricting action.
First, there is a relationship between code and the real world
economic value of virtual items - make the items the kind of things
that have a hierarchy to them that takes time to create and make
them relatively stable virtual entitles and we get a value
structure.
Second, to kill avatar-Q, we are supposing that player-P has had to
crack the game code - there is a good chance that this is a crime.
Now it looks like I've shifted ground again here. It looks like I'm
talking about the status of cracking not player killing, but I want
to hold onto the idea of the status of the end state, in this case
where an avatar is 'dead'. In game A the choice of code means that
to get to this end some acts need to be illegal, this is not the
case in game B.
On 6 July 2003 07:00 David Kennerly said
> Simply that programmer-created specifications which define the
> states a machine may have are analogously equatable to
> legislator-created specifications which empower law-enforcement
> agents and judicial agents.
In this case while the code is not empowering law-enforcement agents
to act against player-P it is certainly enabling legal sanctions to
be used. That is, the freedom to kill players is prohibited by legal
sanction in virtue of a choice of code.
Third, let's look at this from the point of view of player-Q and
player-R. In game B where PK=ON, if R gets killed legitimately, then
player-R should accept this (OK they might be annoyed at someone and
the act might be socially frowned upon in the group so they might be
personally v unhappy). In game A where PK=OFF, when Q gets killed,
player-Q is going to be more than just unhappy. By virtue of the
code they have certain expectations about what is going to
happen. They would have grounds to view the killing of the avatar in
very different terms. It certainly feels ethically worse moreover
player-Q might want to argue that they would have a claim against
the game company for not making the code or the security around it
good enough.
Just to re-enforce the fact that I'm talking about ends not means
here I want to contrast killing Q by cracking from killing R by
cracking. I feel that that PK=ON in game A really does set up very
different expectations as well as a probably a different economic
and social value structure, such that even illegitimate killing are
made different acts and would motivate different legal remedies.
To summarise, you have a choice whether to code or not, when you
code you have a choice what you are going to code. Through your code
you grant certain freedoms to users of that code, and close off
others, you also set up sets of expectations that have social and in
some cases legal implications.
> I am curious about the specific duties that you propose.
Well I'm still thinking about this one. I think that one position
(not mine) is that as the virtual object in MMORPGs
(player-characters and other things) have significant economic
value, game companies have a duty to players to protect that value -
the value of their labour \ investment. I think it would be argued
that this duty stems from the fact that the developer-publisher has
created a 'game' in such a way that it value is generated in
association with its component parts, the developer-publisher could
have avoided this duty by either not creating the game in the first
place or creating one that was not value creating in this way.
I think there are issues with every step of this argument, but I
still think that it needs answering.
> I see the fine point that the copy-protection code itself is
> actually protecting something that is legally free to copy
I think Lessig's main argument is that there is information that we
can now access - generally termed the Creative Commons, the more of
this that is put in certain digital forms, the more of it is denied
to the public. This he thinks has a significant social effect, and
hence anyone that creates anything that has the possibility of
shutting off information like this should think about their social
responsibility.
I kind of feel similar about virtual worlds, these are great things,
but we have to be careful about the way that they are created, one
aspect of this is the way that certain types of coding may have
different legal implications - actually at the moment I think that
the law is so utterly confused about virtual worlds this is not the
case; but the law will catch up and when it does I don't want it to
do so in a way that acts in a way the significantly impacts what it
is to be free in a networked world.
Ren
www.renreynolds.com
- To Kill an Avatar Ren Reynolds
- To Kill an Avatar Castronova, Edward
- To Kill an Avatar Daniel Anderson
- To Kill an Avatar Matt Mihaly
- To Kill an Avatar David Kennerly
- Natalia? Richard A. Bartle
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- Thailand curfew Richard A. Bartle
- Counting Massive Multi Players David Kennerly
- Counting Massive Multi Players Koster, Raph
- Counting Massive Multi Players Castronova, Edward
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players Madrona Tree
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Counting Massive Multi Players Lars Duening
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players David Kennerly
- Metrics for assessing game design [was: When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay?] ceo
- Looking for Paul Schwanz Richard A. Bartle
- Does anyone know the subscription numbers on SWG? Daniel Anderson
- Does anyone know the subscription numbers on SWG? Jason Murdick
- Does anyone know the subscription numbers on SWG? Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
- R: Counting Massive Multi Players Ghilardi Filippo
- Metrics for assessing game design hart.s@comcast.net
- Metrics for assessing game design Matt Mihaly
- Metrics for assessing game design Ron Gabbard
- Metrics for assessing game design Jeremy Gaffney
- Metrics for assessing game design Ron Gabbard
- Metrics for assessing game design ceo
- Metrics for assessing game design katie@stickydata.com
- Metrics for assessing game design Damion Schubert
- Metrics for assessing game design katie@stickydata.com
- Metrics for assessing game design ceo
- Metrics for assessing game design Paul Schwanz
- Wanted: Lead Designer and Lead Technical Artist Matt Mihaly
- BBG's a link to the past Corpheous Andrakin
- BBG's a link to the past Edward Glowacki
- BBG's a link to the past Paul Schwanz
- BBG's a link to the past ceo
- BBG's a link to the past DomQ
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Castronova, Edward
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Robert Lemos
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Richard A. Bartle
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Rob Lemos
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) katie@stickydata.com
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Amanda Walker
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Marian Griffith
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Boyle, Paul
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Paul Schwanz
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Paul Schwanz
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Brendan O'Brien
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Ron Gabbard
- Designing Virtual Worlds Richard A. Bartle
- Designing Virtual Worlds Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Designing Virtual Worlds Jacob Cord
- Designing Virtual Worlds Richard A. Bartle
- R: Counting Massive Multi Players Ghilardi Filippo
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box Nolan J. Darilek
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box MIKE MacMartin
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box Zach Collins {Siege}
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box T. Alexander Popiel
- Crunch time Yannick Jean
- Crunch time J C Lawrence
- Crunch time Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Crunch time ceo
- Crunch time Derek Licciardi
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Ben Tolputt
- Crunch time ceo
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Derek Licciardi
- Crunch time Damion Schubert
- Crunch time Derek Licciardi
- Crunch time Matt Mihaly
- Crunch time Miroslav Silovic
- Crunch time Sean Kelly
- Crunch time Travis Nixon
- Crunch time Lars Duening
- Crunch time Scott Jennings
- Crunch time Matt Mihaly
- Crunch time Hartsman, Scott
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Paul Schwanz
- Crunch time Jason Salem
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time katie@stickydata.com
- Crunch time John Buehler
- Crunch time Tamzen Cannoy
- Crunch time Mark Terrano {XBOX}
- Crunch time Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Damion Schubert
- Crunch time Sean Kelly
- Crunch time Mark Terrano {XBOX}
- Crunch time Eamonn O'Brien
- Crunch time Alex Chacha
- Identifying Players (was Counting Massive Multi Players) Crosbie Fitch