July 2003
- Hackers Put 'Bane' in Shadowbane vladimir cole
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Phillip Lenhardt
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Owen Matt
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Thomas Tomiczek
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] ceo
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Corba + pvm for servers? + UML + case tools Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Material state transformations Yuri Bazhukov
- Material state transformations Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
- Material state transformations Zach Collins {Siege}
- Material state transformations Yuri Bazhukov
- Material state transformations Nicolai Hansen
- Material state transformations Jason Murdick
- Material state transformations Travis Casey
- Material state transformations McDonald, Stephen
- Material state transformations Zach Collins {Siege}
- Material state transformations Richard A. Bartle
- Material state transformations Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Programming Languages. Matthew Estes
- Programming Languages. Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Programming Languages. Matthew Estes
- Programming Languages. J C Lawrence
- Programming Languages. Christopher Kohnert
- Programming Languages. J C Lawrence
- Programming Languages. Christopher Kohnert
- Programming Languages. Bruce Mitchener
- Programming Languages. Roy Trubshaw
- Programming Languages. Richard A. Bartle
- Programming Languages. Roy Trubshaw
- Programming Languages. Richard A. Bartle
- Programming Languages. Roy Trubshaw
- Programming Languages. Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Programming Languages. MIKE MacMartin
- Programming Languages. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Programming Languages. Mike Shaver
- Programming Languages. MIKE MacMartin
- Programming Languages. Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Programming Languages. Bruce Mitchener
- Programming Languages. F. Randall Farmer
- Programming Languages. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Programming Languages. J C Lawrence
- Geographical space paritioning ceo
- Geographical space paritioning Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- R: The Price of Being Male Ghilardi Filippo
- Autumn books ceo
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Marc Bowden
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Paul Schwanz
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Jeff Cole
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Jeff Cole
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Crosbie Fitch
- Architecture (Cell Rebalancing) - working-sets ceo
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Michael Chui
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Ghovs
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes David Kennerly
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Shu-yu Guo {Laptop}
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Amanda Walker
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? David Kennerly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get originalwiththe gameplay? Derek Licciardi
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Paul Schwanz
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Matt Mihaly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Matt Mihaly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Sasha Hart
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? kennerly@sfsu.edu
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Sasha Hart
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Daniel James
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get originalwiththe gameplay? David Kennerly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Michael Tresca
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Martin Bassie
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Daniel James
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get originalwith the gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? J C Lawrence
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get origi nal with the gameplay? Christer Enfors XW {KS/EIN}
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Snicker Furfoot
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get origi nal with the gameplay? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Jason Smith
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Matt Mihaly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get origi nal with the gameplay? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? J C Lawrence
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Christopher Allen
- R: Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Ghilardi Filippo
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? Daniel Anderson
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? Paolo Piselli
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? Zach Collins {Siege}
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? John Buehler
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Eamonn O'Brien
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Kyuss
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Sasha Hart
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma de ath Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death David H. Loeser Jr.
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Sasha Hart
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Eamonn O'Brien
- RE:When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Mike Mormando
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Rayzam
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World J C Lawrence
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Peter Tyson
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Vincent Archer
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Travis Nixon
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Multithreading/accept? MIKE MacMartin
- Multithreading/accept? MIKE MacMartin
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- Java servers and hacking ceo
- Understanding MMOGs ceo
- R: Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues invirtualsocietes Ghilardi Filippo
- A proposed new law of online world design buddy@riseup.net
- A proposed new law of online world design Marc Bowden
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics J C Lawrence
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics Chris Holko
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics Matt Mihaly
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics Andrew L. Tepper
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Castronova, Edward
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Tess Snider
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Castronova, Edward
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Richard A. Bartle
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Castronova, Edward
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Richard A. Bartle
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Marian Griffith
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Amanda Walker
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Ren Reynolds
- Alternate Business Models Ben Tolputt
- To Kill an Avatar kennerly@sfsu.edu
- To Kill an Avatar Ren Reynolds
- To Kill an Avatar David Kennerly
- To Kill an Avatar Ren Reynolds
- To Kill an Avatar Castronova, Edward
- To Kill an Avatar Daniel Anderson
- To Kill an Avatar Matt Mihaly
- To Kill an Avatar David Kennerly
- Natalia? Richard A. Bartle
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- Thailand curfew Richard A. Bartle
- Counting Massive Multi Players David Kennerly
- Counting Massive Multi Players Koster, Raph
- Counting Massive Multi Players Castronova, Edward
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players Madrona Tree
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Counting Massive Multi Players Lars Duening
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players David Kennerly
- Metrics for assessing game design [was: When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay?] ceo
- Looking for Paul Schwanz Richard A. Bartle
- Does anyone know the subscription numbers on SWG? Daniel Anderson
- Does anyone know the subscription numbers on SWG? Jason Murdick
- Does anyone know the subscription numbers on SWG? Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
- R: Counting Massive Multi Players Ghilardi Filippo
- Metrics for assessing game design hart.s@comcast.net
- Metrics for assessing game design Matt Mihaly
- Metrics for assessing game design Ron Gabbard
- Metrics for assessing game design Jeremy Gaffney
- Metrics for assessing game design Ron Gabbard
- Metrics for assessing game design ceo
Paul Schwanz wrote:
> Matt Mihaly wrote:
>> On Wed, 16 Jul 2003, ceo wrote:
>>> P.S. About 50% of those who've dismissed this out of hand have
>>> been professional games developers who felt that "of course
>>> it's not possible to rate fun, and never will be; it's
>>> something you feel in your gut, not something you can
>>> analyse...[subtext: how dare you imply that my job as a games
>>> designer can be pared down to a few simple rules; it's much
>>> more complex than that]". I only really mean this as the
>>> combination of a metric, plus that the act of evaluating
>>> against it generates guidelines for how you can improve a
>>> game's score.
>> Well, I don't think it's a matter of not being able to analyse. I
>> think it's a matter of there being no such thing as an
>> "ultimately fun" game. The very idea of paradise misses the
>> point. There can be no paradise, no ultimate game, without
>> specifying who the paradise is for or who will be playing the
>> game. The ultimately fun game for me is almost surely not the
>> same as for you or for Nancy Reagan. In the end, I don't think it
>> can be measured simply because there is no common measuring
>> stick.
Hmm. That's quite close to what some of the dismissers said, which
suggests I've still not made things clear enough.I'm not aiming for
paradise. I'd probably be delighted if the number of games published
each year that sucked so abominably you can't believe the authors
bothered were reduced to only a few hundred (it's currently
something like 2000, IIRC).
If everyone were making great games, or if most games were on time
and on budget (or even within 10%) there'd be little or no need for
something like this. But, frankly, the industry as a whole is
grossly inefficent in ways that are definitely NOT conducive to
either quality or success. And I haven't met anyone who doesn't want
it to change; I've met plenty who are so jaded they don't believe it
can change, but that doesn't mean they're right :).
I agree quite strongly with one of this week's Gamasutra articles
which points out that the infamous "crunch time" on games dev
projects probably is the single greatest drain on creativity within
the industry - and it has no plus side.
To diverge slightly :), I used to be a Fine Arts artist (drawing,
painting, etc). The people I worked with were a spectrum from those
who were mediocre with the occasional exceptional piece, through to
people who consistently produced excellent works. The consistently
good people mostly agreed that great art was largely accidental,
some going as far to say that the artist's skill merely increased
the chances of a felicitous accident. Others argued that the skill
of the artist was making lots of mistakes, and deciding which were
the good ones, and which ones to paint over.
I don't remember anyone seriously claiming that you couldn't very
effectively (and accurately) rate pieces of art, often in a very
precise manner. If it were impossible to construct metrics, people
would not agree on "good" or "great" art. One thing that muddies the
waters is that the metrics used are often highly sensitive to the
culture of the viewer - 16th century tastes are very different from
20th century tastes. However, this can easily be factored in, and
this is one of the reasons for studying the history of art - it
allows you to see artworks as they would have been seen by people of
the time.
What I'm trying to show with the fun-metrics is that a huge bulk of
what is fun in a computer game can be measured with just one
technique. If I were to attempt to pigeonhole it, I'd say the type
of fun measured is "what makes classic games where gameplay triumphs
despite poor graphics, sound, etc". For instance, Warcraft is
extremely dull without the graphics. I know this because I used to
play Freecraft (the open source clone) many years ago, way before
they'd drawn any artwork. The cartoony graphics are a major part of
the enjoyment, and are not covered by these metrics. OTOH, if you've
ever wondered why you still go back and play Tetris every now and
then, or why simcity and civilization stick in your mind as being so
much better than anything that followed for many years...
> And thakfully so for those such as yourself or Daniel James who
> are courting the niche markets with original gameplay. (Beware
> thread convergence.) However, I suspect that those who dismiss
> Adam's proposed metrics out of hand on such a basis might simpy
> deny themselves the use of a tool that could be quite effective
> and valuable once its limitations are understood. Perhaps it
> might be more accurate to state that this set of metrics helps
> rate a certain kind of fun, but this is reason to employ it
> wisely, not to dismiss it out of hand.
I tried writing a brand-new game from scratch, with no clear design
document or "great idea", on the grounds that if this metric works
as well as I think, I should be able to iteratively produce a fun
game, using the metrics to show what I should change and how
(although I still have to decide what to change TO). It's working
quite well, but I need a month more of spare time to implement the
latest iteration of changes - which I'm pretty convinced will make
it into a good game - and at the moment my free time has evaporated
:(. Sadly, the current iteration was only half-implemented, so at
the moment I have nothing to show :) (current commitments caught me
a bit by surprise!)
FYI I'll also point out that I came across this completely by
accident :).
I was actually trying to evaluate games to use whilst experimenting
with evolutionary-AI (i.e. automatically evolving better and better
AI's). At one point, I sat down with a long list of pre-existing
computer games and ranked them according to how well they were
likely to work with EP. The games were just about anything I or any
of my friends or colleagues could think of, with duplicates ommitted
(e.g., Quake appeared once, instead of Quake, Doom, Unreal, etc).
What surprised me was that despite eventually coming up with
hundreds of games, all the games that were at the top of the
rankings were the most consistently popular and addictive ones. I've
made several attempts over the last few years to try to explain this
correlation - is it something to do with humans evolving over time
to enjoy the kinds of processes that are easy to improve at by
evolutionary methods? - but have come up with nothing convincing. My
best explanations are so flaky I've given up, and concentrate now on
just refining and using the results :)
Adam M - Metrics for assessing game design katie@stickydata.com
- Metrics for assessing game design Damion Schubert
- Metrics for assessing game design katie@stickydata.com
- Metrics for assessing game design ceo
- Metrics for assessing game design Paul Schwanz
- Wanted: Lead Designer and Lead Technical Artist Matt Mihaly
- BBG's a link to the past Corpheous Andrakin
- BBG's a link to the past Edward Glowacki
- BBG's a link to the past Paul Schwanz
- BBG's a link to the past ceo
- BBG's a link to the past DomQ
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Castronova, Edward
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Robert Lemos
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Richard A. Bartle
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Rob Lemos
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) katie@stickydata.com
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Amanda Walker
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Marian Griffith
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Boyle, Paul
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Paul Schwanz
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Paul Schwanz
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Brendan O'Brien
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Ron Gabbard
- Designing Virtual Worlds Richard A. Bartle
- Designing Virtual Worlds Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Designing Virtual Worlds Jacob Cord
- Designing Virtual Worlds Richard A. Bartle
- R: Counting Massive Multi Players Ghilardi Filippo
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box Nolan J. Darilek
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box MIKE MacMartin
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box Zach Collins {Siege}
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box T. Alexander Popiel
- Crunch time Yannick Jean
- Crunch time J C Lawrence
- Crunch time Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Crunch time ceo
- Crunch time Derek Licciardi
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Ben Tolputt
- Crunch time ceo
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Derek Licciardi
- Crunch time Damion Schubert
- Crunch time Derek Licciardi
- Crunch time Matt Mihaly
- Crunch time Miroslav Silovic
- Crunch time Sean Kelly
- Crunch time Travis Nixon
- Crunch time Lars Duening
- Crunch time Scott Jennings
- Crunch time Matt Mihaly
- Crunch time Hartsman, Scott
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Paul Schwanz
- Crunch time Jason Salem
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time katie@stickydata.com
- Crunch time John Buehler
- Crunch time Tamzen Cannoy
- Crunch time Mark Terrano {XBOX}
- Crunch time Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Damion Schubert
- Crunch time Sean Kelly
- Crunch time Mark Terrano {XBOX}
- Crunch time Eamonn O'Brien
- Crunch time Alex Chacha
- Identifying Players (was Counting Massive Multi Players) Crosbie Fitch