July 2003
- Hackers Put 'Bane' in Shadowbane vladimir cole
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Phillip Lenhardt
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Owen Matt
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Thomas Tomiczek
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] ceo
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Display Cheats [Was MMO Launch issues...] Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Corba + pvm for servers? + UML + case tools Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Material state transformations Yuri Bazhukov
- Material state transformations Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
- Material state transformations Zach Collins {Siege}
- Material state transformations Yuri Bazhukov
- Material state transformations Nicolai Hansen
- Material state transformations Jason Murdick
- Material state transformations Travis Casey
- Material state transformations McDonald, Stephen
- Material state transformations Zach Collins {Siege}
- Material state transformations Richard A. Bartle
- Material state transformations Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Programming Languages. Matthew Estes
- Programming Languages. Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Programming Languages. Matthew Estes
- Programming Languages. J C Lawrence
- Programming Languages. Christopher Kohnert
- Programming Languages. J C Lawrence
- Programming Languages. Christopher Kohnert
- Programming Languages. Bruce Mitchener
- Programming Languages. Roy Trubshaw
- Programming Languages. Richard A. Bartle
- Programming Languages. Roy Trubshaw
- Programming Languages. Richard A. Bartle
- Programming Languages. Roy Trubshaw
- Programming Languages. Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Programming Languages. MIKE MacMartin
- Programming Languages. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Programming Languages. Mike Shaver
- Programming Languages. MIKE MacMartin
- Programming Languages. Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Programming Languages. Bruce Mitchener
- Programming Languages. F. Randall Farmer
- Programming Languages. Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Programming Languages. J C Lawrence
- Geographical space paritioning ceo
- Geographical space paritioning Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- R: The Price of Being Male Ghilardi Filippo
- Autumn books ceo
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Marc Bowden
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Paul Schwanz
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Jeff Cole
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Jeff Cole
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Michael Tresca
- [NEC] 2.8: A Group Is Its Own Worst Enemy (fwd) Crosbie Fitch
- Architecture (Cell Rebalancing) - working-sets ceo
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Michael Chui
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Ghovs
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes David Kennerly
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtual societes Shu-yu Guo {Laptop}
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Amanda Walker
- Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? David Kennerly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get originalwiththe gameplay? Derek Licciardi
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Paul Schwanz
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Matt Mihaly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Matt Mihaly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Sasha Hart
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? kennerly@sfsu.edu
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Sasha Hart
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Daniel James
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get originalwiththe gameplay? David Kennerly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Michael Tresca
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Martin Bassie
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Daniel James
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get originalwith the gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? J C Lawrence
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get origi nal with the gameplay? Christer Enfors XW {KS/EIN}
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Snicker Furfoot
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get origi nal with the gameplay? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Jason Smith
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Matt Mihaly
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get origi nal with the gameplay? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? J C Lawrence
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Brian 'Psychochild' Green
I'll answer the original question before I get into a specific reply.
You'll see more original games when the companies developing
original games have enough money to advertise widely. There are
plenty of original games (or even classic games with original
gameplay) out there. But, these games rarely have the advertising
budget or means to advertise as well as the larger games do. The
companies with the resources to handle large advertising campaigns
(read: large publishers) tend to be risk-adverse, as other people
have pointed out. They are not going to take a risk on an original
game, preferring evolutionary games rather than revolutionary games.
A case study: Meridian 59 was the first retail graphical online RPG
("MMORPG"). It used a very unique set of game mechanics obviously
inspired by older MUD games, but it was not (and still is not) a
clone of other games. However, it was published by 3DO, a company
that had very little experience advertising online games and had
plans to exploit the technology behind the game more than the game
itself. Ergo, the game had some of the most embarassing
advertisements in the sad, sad history of computer gaming
advertising.
Examples:
http://www.psychochild.org/m59ads/m59ad.gif
http://www.psychochild.org/m59ads/m59ad2.gif
http://www.psychochild.org/m59ads/m59ad3.gif
(Note: Yes, these are real ads. No, they are NOT spoofs.)
Ultima Online, on the other hand, came out about a year later.
Using more primitive technology than the already dated M59, it was
based on a game world with a built-in fanbase. This made it much
easier to appeal to an existing group of players and get them
excited. The company knew how to appeal to Ultima fans in
advertising, and exploited online resources much more effectively.
(Note, this is not intended to belittle the innovative work that UO
developers like Raph did. There are several innovative things in UO
that should be recognized.) The game with better advertising is
widely recognized, while another game released a year before is
mostly considered an interesting historical footnote.
Full disclosure: I worked on M59 at 3DO, and bought the rights to
the game in 2001. The game is currently up and running, with
information found at http://www.meridian59.com/.
In the years since M59/UO, things have changed, of course. A lot of
advertising has focused on more superficial differences between
games, such as technology used. Now a game like M59 is ignored
because it is not as pretty or technologically advanced as other
games. Many people do not give the game even a second glance,
realizing the unique character advancement system or great
communicaiton options such as in-game mail and bulletin board
systems that are just now becoming a "standard" part of other games.
To respond to one thread that developed:
Byron Ellacott wrote:
> So the issue is tied quite strongly to the huge cost of
> development? If so, attempting to lower the cost of development
> would be a good way to reduce risk and thus increase diversity.
[...]
> Ignoring management, the trouble I see with code and content is
> that every game starts from scratch. With little or no sharing of
> code and content development costs, each MMO is a standalone
> behemoth of cost and complexity. Compare this to Half Life, Team
> Fortress II and Counter Strike, or look at the similarities
> between Diablo II and Warcraft III. While an MMO is, granted, a
> more complex beast than these games, the same principles apply.
The biggest expense for graphical games (and, let's face it, the
"massive" market wants graphical games) is art, not code. Art is
expensive, and players have demanding standards, so seeing
an_orc_model_01 in several different games isn't going to be
acceptable to most of the discriminating hard-core gamers,
especially if one of those games is Sci-Fi!
Let's take a look at M59. There are about 14,300 bitmaps in the
game, including world textures, objects, monsters (with different
frames of animation), etc. Let's assume we have dedicated artists
that could crank out an average of 3 bitmaps per day (an aggressive
figure, but we'll be generous here). Assuming we have about 250
workdays per year (52 weeks/year x 5 workdays/week - 10 holidays),
that means we have about 19 man-years of art in M59 alone! And M59
isn't a cutting-edge graphical game, nor does it have the plethora
of graphical options that other games claim.
Now, let's assume you were trying to build M59 today and wanted to
stick to a 2 year development cycle. This means you have about 1.5
years for art development. To complete 19 man-years of art, you
need 13 artists cranking out bitmaps. Let's assume we can get away
with paying them $35k/year while working them to the bone. This
means you've spent $680k on art alone, just on salaries. Add on
things like payroll taxes, software to support 13 artists,
management, etc, and you have a figure safely over $1M just to get
to the art quality level of M59. Now figure we have to include
level layout people to use the textures, too, and that you might
want a technical artist or two to coordinate with programmers to
integrate art into the game. This adds up.
Scared yet? You will be.
Now, consider that a madern game will require full 3D to grab the
market's attention instead of the 2.5D of M59's current engine.
This will require more specialized artists, such as modellers,
skinners, animators, asset coordinators, etc. Level layout is not
completely different and the programming requirements went up a
significant amount. Oh, yeah, M59 is a comparatively "tiny" world,
so you want about 10x the content I mentioned above.
This is the biggest problem facing independent developers these
days. Art is expensive. Players will turn their nose up at anything
that doesn't look pretty enough, even if you have original gameplay.
Coding is not the "hard part" of making an online game. Open source
tools are nice, and definitely a help, but it does not eliminate the
need for art, which is damned expensive.
Some things to consider,
--
"And I now wait / to shake the hand of fate...." -"Defender", Manowar
Brian Green, brian@psychochild.org aka Psychochild
|\ _,,,---,,_ *=* Morpheus, my kitten, says "Hi!" *=*
ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ Meridian 59
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-' http://www.meridian59.com/
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) An online RPG with character - When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original withthe gameplay? Christopher Allen
- R: Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues in virtualsocietes Ghilardi Filippo
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? Daniel Anderson
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? Paolo Piselli
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? Zach Collins {Siege}
- Can "non-twitch" ranged-combat be fun in a MMORPG? John Buehler
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Eamonn O'Brien
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Kyuss
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Sasha Hart
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma de ath Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death David H. Loeser Jr.
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Sasha Hart
- A system for lives, death, old age, PK and perma death Eamonn O'Brien
- RE:When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay? Mike Mormando
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Rayzam
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World J C Lawrence
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Peter Tyson
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Vincent Archer
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Travis Nixon
- Online Gamers become enemies in the Real World Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Multithreading/accept? MIKE MacMartin
- Multithreading/accept? MIKE MacMartin
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- Java servers and hacking ceo
- Understanding MMOGs ceo
- R: Internationalisation: The effect of Tongues invirtualsocietes Ghilardi Filippo
- A proposed new law of online world design buddy@riseup.net
- A proposed new law of online world design Marc Bowden
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics J C Lawrence
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics Chris Holko
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics Matt Mihaly
- Inside eGenesis: The Simulation of Power and Politics Andrew L. Tepper
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Castronova, Edward
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Tess Snider
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Castronova, Edward
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Richard A. Bartle
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Castronova, Edward
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Richard A. Bartle
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Marian Griffith
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Amanda Walker
- Academic rejection of male/female paper Ren Reynolds
- Alternate Business Models Ben Tolputt
- To Kill an Avatar kennerly@sfsu.edu
- To Kill an Avatar Ren Reynolds
- To Kill an Avatar David Kennerly
- To Kill an Avatar Ren Reynolds
- To Kill an Avatar Castronova, Edward
- To Kill an Avatar Daniel Anderson
- To Kill an Avatar Matt Mihaly
- To Kill an Avatar David Kennerly
- Natalia? Richard A. Bartle
- When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with gameplay? Daniel Anderson
- Thailand curfew Richard A. Bartle
- Counting Massive Multi Players David Kennerly
- Counting Massive Multi Players Koster, Raph
- Counting Massive Multi Players Castronova, Edward
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players Madrona Tree
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Counting Massive Multi Players Lars Duening
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players Jeremy Gaffney
- Counting Massive Multi Players David Kennerly
- Metrics for assessing game design [was: When will new MMORPGs that are coming out get original with the gameplay?] ceo
- Looking for Paul Schwanz Richard A. Bartle
- Does anyone know the subscription numbers on SWG? Daniel Anderson
- Does anyone know the subscription numbers on SWG? Jason Murdick
- Does anyone know the subscription numbers on SWG? Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
- R: Counting Massive Multi Players Ghilardi Filippo
- Metrics for assessing game design hart.s@comcast.net
- Metrics for assessing game design Matt Mihaly
- Metrics for assessing game design Ron Gabbard
- Metrics for assessing game design Jeremy Gaffney
- Metrics for assessing game design Ron Gabbard
- Metrics for assessing game design ceo
- Metrics for assessing game design katie@stickydata.com
- Metrics for assessing game design Damion Schubert
- Metrics for assessing game design katie@stickydata.com
- Metrics for assessing game design ceo
- Metrics for assessing game design Paul Schwanz
- Wanted: Lead Designer and Lead Technical Artist Matt Mihaly
- BBG's a link to the past Corpheous Andrakin
- BBG's a link to the past Edward Glowacki
- BBG's a link to the past Paul Schwanz
- BBG's a link to the past ceo
- BBG's a link to the past DomQ
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Castronova, Edward
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Robert Lemos
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Richard A. Bartle
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Rob Lemos
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) katie@stickydata.com
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Amanda Walker
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Marian Griffith
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Boyle, Paul
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Paul Schwanz
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Paul Schwanz
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Brendan O'Brien
- Value of PvP avatars (was: To Kill an Avatar) Ron Gabbard
- Designing Virtual Worlds Richard A. Bartle
- Designing Virtual Worlds Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Designing Virtual Worlds Jacob Cord
- Designing Virtual Worlds Richard A. Bartle
- R: Counting Massive Multi Players Ghilardi Filippo
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box Nolan J. Darilek
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box MIKE MacMartin
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box Zach Collins {Siege}
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Thinking outside of the room . . . ur . . . box T. Alexander Popiel
- Crunch time Yannick Jean
- Crunch time J C Lawrence
- Crunch time Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Crunch time ceo
- Crunch time Derek Licciardi
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Ben Tolputt
- Crunch time ceo
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Derek Licciardi
- Crunch time Damion Schubert
- Crunch time Derek Licciardi
- Crunch time Matt Mihaly
- Crunch time Miroslav Silovic
- Crunch time Sean Kelly
- Crunch time Travis Nixon
- Crunch time Lars Duening
- Crunch time Scott Jennings
- Crunch time Matt Mihaly
- Crunch time Hartsman, Scott
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Paul Schwanz
- Crunch time Jason Salem
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time katie@stickydata.com
- Crunch time John Buehler
- Crunch time Tamzen Cannoy
- Crunch time Mark Terrano {XBOX}
- Crunch time Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Crunch time Amanda Walker
- Crunch time Damion Schubert
- Crunch time Sean Kelly
- Crunch time Mark Terrano {XBOX}
- Crunch time Eamonn O'Brien
- Crunch time Alex Chacha
- Identifying Players (was Counting Massive Multi Players) Crosbie Fitch
