May 2003
- NetGames 2003: CFParticipation Sugih Jamin
- MUD codebases Chris Saik
- MUD codebases Ammon Lauritzen
- MUD codebases Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD codebases Linder Support
- MUD codebases J C Lawrence
- Flow of messages sanxion sanxion
- Flow of messages Ammon Lauritzen
- Flow of messages Ben Chambers
- Flow of messages Travis Casey
- Flow of messages Brian Lindahl
- Flow of messages Ben Chambers
- Flow of messages Brian Lindahl
- Flow of messages sanxion sanxion
- Flow of messages Brian Lindahl
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Jason Slaughter
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Matt Mihaly
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Ryan Arthur
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Crosbie Fitch
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. William
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Byron Ellacott
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Evan Cortens
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Amanda Walker
- Customization in games, as a design tool / gameplay element ceo
- Warrior Challenge on PBS Madrona Tree
- Warrior Challenge on PBS Edward Glowacki
- Warrior Challenge on PBS Travis Casey
- Warrior Challenge on PBS Michael Chui
- MudDev FAQ - part 2 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ - part 2 Mats Lidstrom
- MudDev FAQ - part 2 J C Lawrence
- MudDev FAQ - part 2 J C Lawrence
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive Talanithus HTML
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive Michael Chui
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive David Kennerly
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive Michael Chui
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive Talanithus HTML
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive J C Lawrence
- relevance of paper RPGs (was D& D vs. MMORPG "complexity") Travis Casey
- WAP MUD GAME DEVELOP Richard Ruan
- WAP MUD GAME DEVELOP Edouard Kock
- D&D and MMORPGs Michael Tresca
- D&D and MMORPGs Sean Kelly
- D&D and MMORPGs shren
- D&D and MMORPGs Threshold RPG
- D&D and MMORPGs Taylor
- D&D and MMORPGs Chris Holko
- D&D and MMORPGs Daniel James
- D&D and MMORPGs Peter Tyson
- D&D and MMORPGs Jason Murdick
- D&D and MMORPGs Michael Tresca
- D&D and MMORPGs Michael Tresca
- Database vs. Disk Tom
- Database vs. Disk Sean Kelly
- Database vs. Disk Ben Garney
- Database vs. Disk Adam Dray
- Database vs. Disk Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Database vs. Disk Brian Lindahl
- Database vs. Disk Chris Holko
- Database vs. Disk Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Database vs. Disk Weston Fryatt
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Byron Ellacott
- Database vs. Disk Dave Rickey
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Bruce Mitchener
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Bruce Mitchener
- Database vs. Disk Jason Gauthier
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Nicolai Hansen
- Database vs. Disk Zach Collins {Siege}
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Zach Collins {Siege}
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Kwon Ekstrom
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk John A. Bertoglio
- Database vs. Disk corrine_123@hotmail.com
- Database vs. Disk Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Database vs. Disk Marc Bowden
- Database vs. Disk Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Database vs. Disk Sulka Haro
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Jason Slaughter
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Edward Glowacki
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. J C Lawrence
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Bruce Mitchener
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Edward Glowacki
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. J C Lawrence
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Bruce Mitchener
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Christopher Allen
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. ghfdh fcgdfgdfg
- ADMIN: Untoward unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- Bringing out the barbaric in each of us David Kennerly
- Horizons Valerio Santinelli
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Talanithus HTML
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Brian Lindahl
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Michael Chui
--- Brian Lindahl <lindahlb@hotmail.com> wrote:
> From: "Talanithus HTML" <talanithus@mindspring.com>
>> NOTE: This is a letter I posted on another MMORPG forum, that I
>> thought directly applied to UO as well. I attempted to clean it
>> up to remove any refernces to the original thread it was crafted
>> for, but I might have missed something. It's late, I'm
>> tired. *grins*
> First of all, I'll say this is slightly off the topic, but I feel
> it needs to be said here. In the following content, MMORPG refers
> to such MMORPG-style games with 1000+ concurrent users at peak.
> I'd really have to say that, despite the fact that MMORPG has
> role-playing in its title. I have yet to see a MMORPG that
> actually has roleplaying as its dominant driving force. This is,
> I'd have to say, due to the lack of depth of the theme that
> current MMORPGs are displaying. The history of the worlds in most
> current MMORPGs tend to follow a circular path, as opposed to
> transgressing a linear path over a period of time. While some
> MMORPGs due have linear progression of a plot line, it is feeble
> at best (AC2, DragonRealms, GS3). For example, AC2, just releases
> new quests and does very little plotline running from an in-game
> perspective. GS3, run by Simutronics, does a better job in
> utilizing a linear plotline better than AC2, but it still falls
> short of encouraging any sort of true roleplaying. It has
> significantly more plotlines being run from within the game (as
> opposed to add-ins in AC2), however, the sheer dominance of hack
> and slash fails to reach a powerful level of
> immersion. DragonRealms does a MUCH better job by providing an
> environment which does not revolve around hack and slash, however
> it lacks strong plotlines run within the game. This are merely
> observations that I've made myself, or that others have stated on
> message boards. I am not aware of any other MMORPGs that have a
> more powerful theme, better run plotlines and/or less emphasis on
> hack and slash. Feel free to chime in if I left any out.
Considering my primary source of experience with good MUDs is
Dragonrealms, I feel I have to put in a word here. GS3 was
technically my first MUD. I never got into it, however, having been
utterly lost because I didn't realize I had to type NORTH rather
than GO NORTH. I believe I got lost after that and
quit. Dragonrealms was next up. One of the first times I played, I
stayed up until 6am with a new friend.
My own project came from a dream and a wish, you could say. The two
of us who started out were disgusted with the distinct lack of
roleplay in it. We liked just about everything else. (Disclaimer: As
previously stated, my actual experience with MUDs isn't very
encompassing.) The combat system was great, the experience/skills
system was fascinating. And while I got the gist of a great history
and storyline underlying everything... this didn't manifest in the
actual gameplay. At the VERY most, people responded actively to
invasions. That about topped it.
You said DR was less hack-n-slash than GS3, and not being a veteran
of GS3, I can't refute that. However, I think the main reason for
this difference is in the design of the skills system. GS3 was more
along the lines of D&D: to advance, you must kill. In DR, it was
conceivably possible to advance without ever fighting, because the
required skill could be taught. (It would go really slowly though.)
Furthermore, the fighting skills were easily gotten. The difficulty
always lay in other skills. Thus, everyone spent their time
socializing and doing repetitive tasks over and over. Anyone that
didn't write a script with an infinite loop probably quit or had
calloused fingers. Want to learn foraging? Find a teacher, sit down,
and forage until you drop. Want to learn perception? Find a teacher,
sit down, search until you drop, and announce that people may
practice stealing on you.
Roleplaying? A very uncommon practice.
> I think one of the major reasons why MMORPGs are lacking in this
> department, is that the game development is done with very little
> integration of history, the future plotline, and flexibility. Most
> games' depth is developed in a style akin to the method of
> changing the skin color of a monster to create a new beast to
> kill. It is very much clone-like and bland. I believe that just as
> many resources (time, money, manpower) should be allocated to
> developing the environement (story, history, world, cultures,
> communities, feature characters, common characters, personality
> archetypes) as to developing the gameplay. As long as this
> environment is strongly integrated into the gameplay (i.e. just as
> strong personality archetypes found in common NPCs as those found
> in figurehead NPCs), the result will be that of a higher quality
> MMORPG that truely deserves the title that the gaming market was
> so quick to attribute.
Yes, definitely. While background and environment are absolutely
100% necessary, not to mention essential to roleplaying, they're as
useless as polygons in a box if the gameplay isn't with it.
My current strategy is this: Design the background and history NOW,
before a single player even knows my world exists. Enrich the
culture as deeply as possible. Make it so that when that first
player steps in, he or she will KNOW that this is another world. A
real world. A living, breathing world in which they can walk through
and be a different person.
With this design in hand, I plan for something different: greet the
player with a demonstration of how to roleplay their character. A
normal elf, this demonstration would say, talks like this, walks
like this, and acts like this. It's their choice to depart from the
norm, but as long as this isn't too foreign or too difficult, I'd
wager most players would follow it.
I largely believe that immersion is the key to encouraging roleplay.
That requires sufficient realism, but also sufficient fun. So this
is where I've focused my design efforts, with the every-now-and-then
distraction of what other necessities I ought to include.
And... it's 4am. I think it'd be best to be quiet now. - RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Marian Griffith
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Michael Chui
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Paul Schwanz
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution J C Lawrence
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Matt Mihaly
- Account retention (was: D& D vs. MMORPG "complexity") Byron Ellacott
- Object-Oriented Databases John A. Bertoglio
- Object-Oriented Databases Weston Fryatt
- Object-Oriented Databases Travis Nixon
- Object-Oriented Databases Bruce Mitchener
- Object-Oriented Databases John A. Bertoglio
- Object-Oriented Databases Jeff Bachtel
- Object-Oriented Databases Sean Kelly
- TECH: Application-level branch prediction? ceo
- DID vs. MORAG "complexity" Jeff Cole
- DID vs. MORAG "complexity" Dave Rickey
- DID vs. MORAG "complexity" Matt Mihaly
- Objects Ben Chambers
- Scripting languages Jason Murdick
- Scripting languages Brian Hook
- Scripting languages Jason Gauthier
- Scripting languages Sanvean
- Scripting languages Jason Murdick
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Scripting languages Ling Lo
- Scripting languages Jay Carlson
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Scripting languages Lars Duening
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Scripting languages Lars Duening
- Scripting languages Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Scripting languages Lars Duening
- Scripting languages justice@softhome.net
- Scripting languages MIKE MacMartin
- Scripting languages Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Scripting languages Bruce Mitchener
- Scripting languages Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Scripting languages Dr. Cat
- Scripting languages Jay Carlson
- Scripting languages David H. Loeser Jr.
- Scripting languages Shu-yu Guo
- Scripting languages Lars Duening
- Scripting languages David H. Loeser Jr.
- Scripting languages criscal@gmx.de
- Scripting languages eric
- Scripting languages Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- Scripting languages John Buehler
- Scripting languages Mike Shaver
- Scripting languages sanxion sanxion
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Scripting languages Mike Shaver
- Scripting languages sanxion sanxion
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- When marketroids attack! Tess Snider
- Moo mailing list issue _DESPARATE FOR HELP! Ms Leigh Canny
- Moo mailing list issue _DESPARATE FOR HELP! David Clifton
- When Player Communities Rebel / Fanbois Gone Rogue vladimir cole
- When Player Communities Rebel / Fanbois Gone Rogue Andrew Barratt {MIS}
- NWN player modules (was: D&D and MMORPGs) Lars Duening
- NWN player modules (was: D&D and MMORPGs) Jonathan Grant
- Simpsons player types Matt Mihaly
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Thomas Sullivan
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Sasha Hart
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Kristen Koster
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Marc Bowden
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Kristen Koster
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Thomas Sullivan
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Owen Matt
- Dealing with cloned NPCs John Buehler
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Owen Matt
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Thomas Sullivan
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Vincent Archer
- The Laws of the Virtual Worlds Tamzen Cannoy