May 2003
- NetGames 2003: CFParticipation Sugih Jamin
- MUD codebases Chris Saik
- MUD codebases Ammon Lauritzen
- MUD codebases Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD codebases Linder Support
- MUD codebases J C Lawrence
- Flow of messages sanxion sanxion
- Flow of messages Ammon Lauritzen
- Flow of messages Ben Chambers
- Flow of messages Travis Casey
- Flow of messages Brian Lindahl
- Flow of messages Ben Chambers
- Flow of messages Brian Lindahl
- Flow of messages sanxion sanxion
- Flow of messages Brian Lindahl
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Jason Slaughter
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Matt Mihaly
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Ryan Arthur
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Crosbie Fitch
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. William
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Byron Ellacott
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Evan Cortens
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. J C Lawrence
- UDP vs TCP for MUD/MMORPG project. Amanda Walker
- Customization in games, as a design tool / gameplay element ceo
- Warrior Challenge on PBS Madrona Tree
- Warrior Challenge on PBS Edward Glowacki
- Warrior Challenge on PBS Travis Casey
- Warrior Challenge on PBS Michael Chui
- MudDev FAQ - part 2 Marian Griffith
- MudDev FAQ - part 2 Mats Lidstrom
- MudDev FAQ - part 2 J C Lawrence
- MudDev FAQ - part 2 J C Lawrence
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive Talanithus HTML
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive Michael Chui
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive David Kennerly
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive Michael Chui
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive Talanithus HTML
- Storytelling in a PSW from a Player's Persepctive J C Lawrence
- relevance of paper RPGs (was D& D vs. MMORPG "complexity") Travis Casey
- relevance of paper RPGs (was D& D vs. MMORPG "complexity") Troy Fisher
From: Travis Casey <efindel@earthlink.net>
> Saturday, May 10, 2003, 3:58:36 PM, Threshold RPG wrote:
>> On 8 May 2003, at 11:58, Travis Casey wrote:
>>> The same is true of paper RPGs -- some people consider D&D3 to be
>>> too complicated to be practical, while others consider it to be
>>> much too simple.
>> That's a nice point, but woefully off topic here. The point here
>> is whether or not D&D is "too complex" to be used in a modern
>> online RPG. Debating the relative complexity of D&D compared with
>> other pen and paper games is not the issue whatsoever.
> The original point, before the debate over whether D&D is
> "complex" or not compared to muds began, was whether or not
> knowledge of paper RPGs can be a useful thing for a mud or MMORPG
> designer. Several people expressed the opinion that paper RPG
> systems are too simple to be of use, using various versions of D&D
> as their example.
> The point I'm trying to make is that whether or not D&D in
> specific is complex is irrelevant to deciding whether or not
> knowledge of *paper RPGs in general* is relevant. It's the most
> popular paper RPG, but that doesn't mean it's the best one to
> learn from.
With the point at hand I think it is essential to 'lift' the design
of a paper system for use in a MUD. In fact I would go so far as to
say anyone or any system that does not use design elements from
paper systems is broken, or will be broken.
Let me outline why I believe that this is the case: (Note these are
not listed in Importance, but just the way that I plan on detailing
them)
- Development Time
- Enjoyment
- Playability
- Balance
Development Time. It takes time to develop an RPG. It's a fact. To
create all the aspects of it from scratch is just a monumentous job.
Writing a Mud from scratch takes time. Combining the two would be a
large time committment. For examples: D&D 3.5 has taken 8 months to
workout and it's still not done. For simple upgrade to a system 8
months! For a more relevant example take a look at the development
time for a Final Fantasy game. Each Game has different advancement
system, different skill systems, and different magic systems. Then
they have to code it, it's what 2 - 3 years between FF games? Why
spend the time developing your own system from scratch and waste the
time that could better be used developing your code, or playtesting
your system?
Enjoyment. A Paper system has one goal in mind, to sell books! So
it therefore has to bring enjoyment to someone. Whether it's goofy
(Fuzzy, Ninja Burger, or Hackmaster) or dark (Call of Cuthulu, World
of Darkness) these systems are built to have fun with. Why
shouldn't we borrow that aspect from the paper systems? It just
adds another dimension to the fun of our MUDs.
Playability. Most paper systems have had the snot tested out of
them. But then this is where the big difference between paper
systems and muds differ. A game bogged down in mechanics isn't going
to have great playability, but the MUD and automation takes care of
that. But most importantly it has been tested as being 'fun' or
'thematic' or 'boundary-pushing' and you can look at those reviews
and say, "That's what fits with my vision." And you can borrow it!
Balance. This is the most important factor in taking paper systems
and applying them to a MUD. First off, I have never played or heard
of a MUD that is balanced properly (I haven't played every mud!)
Most Muds apply patches to fix the balance issue, remorts, level eq,
etc.. Yet I have yet to play a paper system that is grossly broken.
Most Mud Algorithms get so grossly over balanced between highlevel
and low level development that it is painful to think that there are
places out there you can look that take care of that for you
already.
But then most MUD Developers are megalomaniacs anyhow.
-Ashon
- relevance of paper RPGs (was D& D vs. MMORPG "complexity") Troy Fisher
- WAP MUD GAME DEVELOP Richard Ruan
- WAP MUD GAME DEVELOP Edouard Kock
- D&D and MMORPGs Michael Tresca
- D&D and MMORPGs Sean Kelly
- D&D and MMORPGs shren
- D&D and MMORPGs Threshold RPG
- D&D and MMORPGs Taylor
- D&D and MMORPGs Chris Holko
- D&D and MMORPGs Daniel James
- D&D and MMORPGs Peter Tyson
- D&D and MMORPGs Jason Murdick
- D&D and MMORPGs Michael Tresca
- D&D and MMORPGs Michael Tresca
- Database vs. Disk Tom
- Database vs. Disk Sean Kelly
- Database vs. Disk Ben Garney
- Database vs. Disk Adam Dray
- Database vs. Disk Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Database vs. Disk Brian Lindahl
- Database vs. Disk Chris Holko
- Database vs. Disk Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Database vs. Disk Weston Fryatt
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Byron Ellacott
- Database vs. Disk Dave Rickey
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Bruce Mitchener
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Bruce Mitchener
- Database vs. Disk Jason Gauthier
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Nicolai Hansen
- Database vs. Disk Zach Collins {Siege}
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Zach Collins {Siege}
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Kwon Ekstrom
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk John A. Bertoglio
- Database vs. Disk corrine_123@hotmail.com
- Database vs. Disk Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Database vs. Disk J C Lawrence
- Database vs. Disk Peter "Pietro" Rossmann
- Database vs. Disk Marc Bowden
- Database vs. Disk Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Database vs. Disk Sulka Haro
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Jason Slaughter
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Edward Glowacki
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. J C Lawrence
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Bruce Mitchener
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Edward Glowacki
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. J C Lawrence
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Bruce Mitchener
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. Christopher Allen
- Thoughts on a simplified multiplayer game. ghfdh fcgdfgdfg
- ADMIN: Untoward unsubscriptions J C Lawrence
- Bringing out the barbaric in each of us David Kennerly
- Horizons Valerio Santinelli
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Talanithus HTML
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Brian Lindahl
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Michael Chui
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Marian Griffith
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Paul Schwanz
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution J C Lawrence
- RP, MMORPGs, and their Evolution Matt Mihaly
- Account retention (was: D& D vs. MMORPG "complexity") Byron Ellacott
- Object-Oriented Databases John A. Bertoglio
- Object-Oriented Databases Weston Fryatt
- Object-Oriented Databases Travis Nixon
- Object-Oriented Databases Bruce Mitchener
- Object-Oriented Databases John A. Bertoglio
- Object-Oriented Databases Jeff Bachtel
- Object-Oriented Databases Sean Kelly
- TECH: Application-level branch prediction? ceo
- DID vs. MORAG "complexity" Jeff Cole
- DID vs. MORAG "complexity" Dave Rickey
- DID vs. MORAG "complexity" Matt Mihaly
- Objects Ben Chambers
- Scripting languages Jason Murdick
- Scripting languages Brian Hook
- Scripting languages Jason Gauthier
- Scripting languages Sanvean
- Scripting languages Jason Murdick
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Scripting languages Ling Lo
- Scripting languages Jay Carlson
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Scripting languages Lars Duening
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Scripting languages Lars Duening
- Scripting languages Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Scripting languages Lars Duening
- Scripting languages justice@softhome.net
- Scripting languages MIKE MacMartin
- Scripting languages Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Scripting languages Bruce Mitchener
- Scripting languages Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Scripting languages Dr. Cat
- Scripting languages Jay Carlson
- Scripting languages David H. Loeser Jr.
- Scripting languages Shu-yu Guo
- Scripting languages Lars Duening
- Scripting languages David H. Loeser Jr.
- Scripting languages criscal@gmx.de
- Scripting languages eric
- Scripting languages Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- Scripting languages John Buehler
- Scripting languages Mike Shaver
- Scripting languages sanxion sanxion
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Scripting languages Mike Shaver
- Scripting languages sanxion sanxion
- Scripting languages Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- When marketroids attack! Tess Snider
- Moo mailing list issue _DESPARATE FOR HELP! Ms Leigh Canny
- Moo mailing list issue _DESPARATE FOR HELP! David Clifton
- When Player Communities Rebel / Fanbois Gone Rogue vladimir cole
- When Player Communities Rebel / Fanbois Gone Rogue Andrew Barratt {MIS}
- NWN player modules (was: D&D and MMORPGs) Lars Duening
- NWN player modules (was: D&D and MMORPGs) Jonathan Grant
- Simpsons player types Matt Mihaly
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Thomas Sullivan
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Sasha Hart
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Kristen Koster
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Marc Bowden
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Kristen Koster
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Thomas Sullivan
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Owen Matt
- Dealing with cloned NPCs John Buehler
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Owen Matt
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Thomas Sullivan
- Dealing with cloned NPCs Vincent Archer
- The Laws of the Virtual Worlds Tamzen Cannoy