March 2003
- MMORPG/MMOG P2P design Steven J. Owens
- Dinner, Conference and BBQ J C Lawrence
- Dinner, Conference and BBQ J C Lawrence
- Wow, Jessica's working on Ac2? Chris
- Small Worlds, GDC talk Koster, Raph
- Small Worlds, GDC talk Peter Tyson
- Better Game Design through Data Mining, MDC talk David Kennerly
- MUD-Dev conference and dinner report J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev conference and dinner report J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev conference and dinner report Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- Fighting Lag Elia Morling
- Fighting Lag Nicolai Hansen
- Fighting Lag Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Fighting Lag Ian Macintosh
- Fighting Lag Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Fighting Lag Travis Nixon
- Fighting Lag Nicolai Hansen
- Fighting Lag Vladimir Vukicevic
- Fighting Lag Jo Dillon
- Fighting Lag Mike Shaver
- Fighting Lag Bruce Mitchener
- Fighting Lag Brian Hook
- Fighting Lag Paul Schwanz
- Fighting Lag Elia Morling
- Fighting Lag Ian Macintosh
- Fighting Lag ceo
- Fighting Lag arch stanton
- Fighting Lag Tom Hubina
- Fighting Lag Steven J. Owens
- Fighting Lag Amanda Walker
- A Founding Father Forgotten Scott Miller
- A Founding Father Forgotten Travis Casey
- A Founding Father Forgotten Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- A Founding Father Forgotten Travis Casey
- A Founding Father Forgotten Adam Dray
- A Founding Father Forgotten Travis Casey
- A Founding Father Forgotten Adam Dray
- A Founding Father Forgotten Michael Tresca
- A Founding Father Forgotten Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- A Founding Father Forgotten John Robert Arras
- A Founding Father Forgotten Michael Tresca
- A Founding Father Forgotten Matt Mihaly
- A Founding Father Forgotten Michael Chui
- A Founding Father Forgotten Matt Mihaly
- A Founding Father Forgotten Michael Tresca
- A Founding Father Forgotten Sean Kelly
- A Founding Father Forgotten Michael Tresca
- A Founding Father Forgotten Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- A Founding Father Forgotten Michael Tresca
- A Founding Father Forgotten Paul Schwanz
- A Founding Father Forgotten John Robert Arras
- A Founding Father Forgotten Thomas Tomiczek
- A Founding Father Forgotten Paul Schwanz
- A Founding Father Forgotten Ryan Arthur
- A Founding Father Forgotten Threshold RPG
- A Founding Father Forgotten David Kennerly
- A Founding Father Forgotten eck@wizards.com
- A Founding Father Forgotten Ben Hoyt
- A Founding Father Forgotten Paul Schwanz
- A Founding Father Forgotten Bad Mojo
- A Founding Father Forgotten Matt Mihaly
- MDC and talk John Robert Arras
- More on Small Worlds Koster, Raph
- More on Small Worlds Ted L. Chen
- More on Small Worlds Lee Sheldon
- More on Small Worlds Jeff Cole
- More on Small Worlds Boyle, Paul
- More on Small Worlds - Simulation of behviours in populations ceo
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Daniel James
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Diamonds
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Chris Holko
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers szii@sziisoft.com
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Rudy Fink
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Threshold RPG
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Damion Schubert
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Chris
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Lee Sheldon
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Baar - Lord of the Seven Suns
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Christopher Allen
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Scott Jennings
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Threshold RPG
- BIZ: MMP subscriber numbers Lee Sheldon
- Massively Multiplayer Game Development (Game Developmen t Series) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Massively Multiplayer Game Development (Game Developmen t Series) Jeremy Noetzelman
- Massively Multiplayer Game Development (Game Develo pment Series) Koster, Raph
- Massively Multiplayer Game Development (Game Development Series) Jessica Mulligan
- Massively Multiplayer Game Development (Game Development Series) Damion Schubert
- Massively Multiplayer Game Development (Game Developmen t Series) Ted Milker
- Winnable MMO apollyon
- Winnable MMO Edward Glowacki
- Winnable MMO Vincent Archer
- Winnable MMO kat-Zygfryd
- Winnable MMO Miroslav Silovic
- Winnable MMO eric
- Winnable MMO John Robert Arras
- Winnable MMO Diamonds
From: "apollyon" <apo11yon@hotmail.com>
> A friend and I were discussing the non-winnable nature of PvP MMOs
> currently on the market or soon to be released. DAoC, Shadowbane,
> SWG, they all have a strong PvP element but none are truly
> winnable. The games are specifically designed such that the
> conflict will continue unendingly until they just fade away into
> obscurity as players abandon them for the next great game.
> Anarchy Online comes close with its prefabricated story spanning a
> discrete timeline at the end of which they will determine who
> wins, but there is no game out there (at least that I've heard of)
> that actually leaves the fate of that game up to the players.
Why does everyone fail to include WWII Online in any reference of
MMOG's short of the category 'bad releases'? I mention this now
because WWII Online is the only main stream MMOG that actually
incorporates 'loosing'. This thread exemplifies how they (including
the players) understand having a win/loose type of game effects the
feel and the playerbase of that game.
http://www5.playnet.com/bv/wwiiolhq/dg_message.jsp?group_id09&parent_id=2
308351
My 2 cents is that games with 'winners' and 'loosers' are bad games
to make if you plan on making money. If you want to make the most
niche game possible, have VERY hardcore dedicated players and be the
king of their world (like WWIIOL) then win/loose games are the way
to go. However, they are NOT mainstream material. Simply put, video
games are a form of an escape where the player feels comfortable
knowing that he will not loose. All video games have the, what I
like to call, absolute factor. Meaning that no matter how poorly you
play, given enough time you will win, absolutely.
The types of games that you describe go against this model, and my
feeling is that it will not be welcomed by masses. There are two
examples of this. First, the closest thing to online 'win/loose'
games available are FPS and RTS type games. They subscribe to the
model that was mentioned, they all have a VERY quick "rapid power
advancement so payers can quickly get back into the swing of things
after a concluded conflict." However, in 'win/loose' MMOG's, such a
model would be hard if not impossible to implement, basically
because MMOG's cannot be played for 10 or 20 minutes, then 'done',
like in FPS or RTS online games. MMOG's all consume large amounts of
time before anything can happen. For instance, a player can log into
a MMORPG world and search for hours trying to find a good group to
go hunting with.
Secondly, MMOG's history have followed the 'only one' at the top
model. Meaning that they have the tendency for one player, or group
of players to be at the top, and for them to stay there. In the
cause of 'win/loose' MMOG's, this would cause those not on the top
to constantly loose. No one plays games to loose.
In conclusion, people play games to win. Niche community's follow
'win/loose' games. 'Win/Loose' games run the risk of a player base
loosing too much. All these risks are too chancy for most
dev. companies, so I doubt to see any more in the market for a
while.
Chris "Diamonds" Stewart
http://www.unknownplayer.com
Editor in Something... - Winnable MMO Threshold RPG
- Winnable MMO Vincent Archer
- Winnable MMO Diamonds
- Winnable MMO Chris Nielsen
- Winnable MMO Sara Jensen
- Winnable MMO Chris Holko
- Winnable MMO Chris Mancil
- Winnable MMO szii@sziisoft.com
- Winnable MMO Mike Shaver
- Winnable MMO Threshold RPG
- Winnable MMO shren
- Winnable MMO Threshold RPG
- Winnable MMO Matt Mihaly
- Winnable MMO Talies the Wanderer
- Winnable MMO Steven J. Owens
- Winnable MMO John Buehler
- Winnable MMO Larry Dunlap
- Winnable MMO Jonathon Duerig
- Winnable MMO ceo