November 2003
- Fwd: Web vs. Java client Eric Merritt
- Fwd: Web vs. Java client Mike Shaver
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 6, Issue 3 Alex Chacha
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 6, Issue 3 Zach Collins {Siege}
- java clients (was: MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 6, Issue 3) ceo
- MUD-Dev conference 2003/2004 Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Biz: Game support Peter Tyson
- Biz: Game support Damion Schubert
- Biz: Game support Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Biz: Game support Michael Sellers
- Biz: Game support John Erskine
- Advantage for outside skills T. Alexander Popiel
- Advantage for outside skills Jeff Fuller
- Advantage for outside skills Paul Schwanz
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment szii@sziisoft.com
- Removing access to entertainment Patrick Dughi
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Sheela Caur'Lir
- Removing access to entertainment Marian Griffith
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Paul Schwanz
- Removing access to entertainment Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Removing access to entertainment apollyon .
- Removing access to entertainment Amanda Walker
- Removing access to entertainment Peter Keeler
- Removing access to entertainment Matt Mihaly
- Removing access to entertainment Amanda Walker
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Michael "Flury" Chui
- Removing access to entertainment Paul Schwanz
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Sheela Caur'Lir
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Sheela Caur'Lir
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Sheela Caur'Lir
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Sheela Caur'Lir
- Removing access to entertainment Jeff Crane
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Paul Schwanz
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Chanur Silvarian
- Removing access to entertainment Sheela Caur'Lir
- Removing access to entertainment Michael Sellers
- Removing access to entertainment Amanda Walker
- Removing access to entertainment Matt Mihaly
- Removing access to entertainment Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Removing access to entertainment Brian Lindahl
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Damion Schubert
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Marian Griffith
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Marian Griffith
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Corpheous Andrakin
- Removing access to entertainment Darren Hall
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Sheela Caur'Lir
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Removing access to entertainment Chanur Silvarian
- Removing access to entertainment Amanda Walker
- Removing access to entertainment Jeremy Neal Kelly
- Removing access to entertainment Corpheous Andrakin
- Removing access to entertainment John Buehler
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creations Mike Shaver
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Christer Enfors XW {TN/PAC}
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Lee Sheldon
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Christer Enfors XW {TN/PAC}
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Jeff Thompson
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creations Corey Crawford
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Corpheous Andrakin
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Ren Reynolds
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Crosbie Fitch
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Amanda Walker
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Ren Reynolds
- Second Life's customers own the IP of their creatio ns Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Effects of skill-imbalances? Joshua Judson Rosen
- download-barriers Joshua Judson Rosen
- download-barriers Matt Mihaly
- Language and platform for Text MUD server =?koi8-r?Q?=22?=Andrew Batyuck=?koi8-r?Q?=22=20?=< javaman@mail.ru>
- Language and platform for Text MUD server Miroslav Silovic
- Language and platform for Text MUD server Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Language and platform for Text MUD server Patrick Dughi
- Language and platform for Text MUD server Alex Chacha
- Ragnarok Wisdom Michael Tresca
- Java on Linux gbtmud
- Java on Linux Artur Biesiadowski
- AS TECHNOLOGY SCATTERS VIEWERS, NETWORKS GO LOOKING FOR THEM Michael Tresca
- Breakdown of Java users Christopher Kohnert
- Second Life's customers get [copyright?] of their creations Joshua Judson Rosen
- Rubies of Eventide shutting down Mantees de Tara
- Rubies of Eventide shutting down Zach Collins {Siege}
- Rubies of Eventide shutting down Sheela Caur'Lir
- Rubies of Eventide shutting down Michael Sellers
- Rubies of Eventide shutting down Koster, Raph
- Dopamine and addiction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dopamine and addiction David Love
- Dopamine and addiction a t y mcguire
- Dopamine and addiction Lars Duening
- Dopamine and addiction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dopamine and addiction Rayzam
- Dopamine and addiction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dopamine and addiction Rayzam
- Dopamine and addiction Marian Griffith
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Eli Stevens
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Jessica Mulligan
- Trusting the client, encrypting data ceo
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Amanda Walker
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Mike Shaver
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Sean Middleditch
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Peter Harkins
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Amanda Walker
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Crosbie Fitch
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Richard A. Bartle
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Mike Shaver
- Trusting the client, encrypting data ceo
- Trusting the client, encrypting data J C Lawrence
On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 10:20:13 +0000
ceo <ceo@grexengine.com> wrote:
> Please examine the earlier posts on this topic; the suggestion was
> that the keys be distributed lazily, on-demand, i.e. "just in time",
> or when the data was about to be used.
An interesting point is to extrapolate this out:
All transmitted game world state is encrypted. Any one of the
computationally cheap ciphers would do, so long as the crack time for
the cipher was significantly longer than the half life of the data.
Every node, every client, is sent continuously send the entire world
state and is (arm wave) perfectly synchronised (well, within logical
consistency constraints).
Each client possesses a small number of keys which it can use to
decipher a subset of the data that pertains to its user's
environments.
A user can only see that aspect of the world which is revealed by the
cipher keys that have been revealed to that user.
This gets particularly interesting when you start looking at using the
key space to segment the world and player population horizontally:
Bubba and Boffo are in the same location in the game world, in front
of fortress Fract.
Bubba and Boffo can both see Bernie, who is also in front of Fortress
Fract.
Bernie can also see Bubba and Boffo, as they all have the relevant
data keys for each other's data streams.
Bubba however can't see Boffo as he doesn't have the requisite key,
and in fact Bubba can't interact with Boffo because he doesn't have
the key. As such, Boffo is effectively invisible to Bubba. Bubba can
be told by third parties that Boffo is there, but he has no possible
way of detecting that for himself, let alone directly interacting.
Boffo however can see Bubba as he does have the key for Bubba's data
stream, but Boffo can't interact with Bubba as any messages/events he
sends Bubba's way never come back. This is because Bubba can't
decrypt them and thus Bubba's methods never get called to generate
return messages.
So far so good, but it gets especially interesting when third parties
get involved:
Boffo now attacks Bernie. As they can decrypt each other's data
streams this is a normal conflict. The interesting viewpoint in this
is Bubba's. Bubba sees Bernie fighting an invisible opponent and
sustaining damage and other physical effects from invisible objects...
Boffo now picks up a sword which Bernie drops. To Bubba's point of
view the sword is now enchanted, self-wielding in fact, and it dances
and swings about thru the air, attacking Boffo and in fact swung by
the invisible Boffo.
A curious definition of magic: the editing of viewpoints so as to
control perception. Somehow this is very reminiscent of a favourite
book, The Veils of Alzaroc (well worth reading). But, onto more mundane
matters:
The obvious client-side crack is to run a P2P broadcasting system on
the clients broadcasting keys to the other players so that player's
can share each other's world views. In this way they could defeat the
limited viewpoint constraints. The defence against this is equally
trivial: The world data for each node is encrypted with a key which is
private to that client and different from other clients.
The obvious attack on this is not to share the keys, but to
dynamically share the decrypted data, the results of the processing
the keys they do have against the world.
About the only clear way I can see of handling this is to make the
data streams which each node receives in some way personal to that
node. ie subjectively contextual to that node to such a degree that
the significant transformation is required for one node's data to be
useful to another node.
This has obvious problems:
-- Nodes can use OOB protocols to synchronise and establish a
running transformation process for the data streams.
-- Worse, nodes could undo the personalisation of the data streams
and republish the decrypted data in clear text (as it were) for
import by other nodes.
The obvious control on this is to make the personalisation mapping
dynamic on a set of parameters which are not (entirely) deducible by
the client (eg exact world position, which the client knows only
approximately). This would have the effect of making even the clear
text data streams taken from another client no better than a slightly
time delayed approximation. Bubba can now see that Boffo is in the
room, but his view is fuzzy and has a wobbly latency of 2*RTT (I'm
know I'm ignoring bandwidth concerns everywhere else).
Cute. Sort of a Heisenburg function for your game world. You can see
everything as it may have been, sort of. You can see each discrete
object and data stream for the entire world as it was at some random
point within (say) the last two seconds, but each object can be at a
different point within the 2 second window and there's no clue as to
where in the window each object's view is...and you can see the data you
have keys for in perfectly coherent synchronicity.
Fuzzy spectacles with a hard focus centre.
Hehn.
--
J C Lawrence
---------(*) Satan, oscillate my metallic sonatas.
claw@kanga.nu He lived as a devil, eh?
http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/ Evil is a name of a foeman, as I live.
- Trusting the client, encrypting data J C Lawrence
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Sean Middleditch
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Mike Shaver
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Paul Schwanz
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Vincent Archer
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Felix A. Croes
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Sean Middleditch
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Alain Hamel
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Richard A. Bartle
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Alex Chacha
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Amanda Walker
- Trusting the client, encrypting data Crosbie Fitch
- Payment Transaction Processing altug
- Payment Transaction Processing Sean Middleditch
- Payment Transaction Processing Jason Smith
- Payment Transaction Processing stanza
- Payment Transaction Processing Matt Mihaly
- Payment Transaction Processing Gary Cooper
- Payment Transaction Processing J C Lawrence
- Payment Transaction Processing Gary Whitten