October 2003
- Scripting Languages and Magic gbtmud
- Scripting Languages and Magic Edward Glowacki
- Scripting Languages and Magic Freeman, Jeff
- Scripting Languages and Magic Patrick Dughi
- Scripting Languages and Magic Sheela Caur'Lir
- Scripting Languages and Magic Patrick Dughi
- Scripting Languages and Magic Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- Scripting Languages and Magic Jonathon Duerig
- Scripting Languages and Magic J C Lawrence
- Scripting Languages and Magic Richard A. Bartle
- Scripting Languages and Magic eric
- Scripting Languages and Magic Matthew Estes
- Scripting Languages and Magic Ben Chambers
- Scripting Languages and Magic J C Lawrence
- Scripting Languages and Magic Nathan F. Yospe
- Scripting Languages and Magic Smith, David {Lynchburg}
- Scripting Languages and Magic J C Lawrence
- Scripting Languages and Magic Edward Glowacki
- Scripting Languages and Magic Freeman, Jeff
- Scripting Languages and Magic Crosbie Fitch
- Scripting Languages and Magic Sheela Caur'Lir
- Scripting Languages and Magic Crosbie Fitch
- Scripting Languages and Magic Sheela Caur'Lir
- Scripting Languages and Magic Nathan F. Yospe
- Scripting Languages and Magic Marian Griffith
- Scripting Languages and Magic McDonald, Stephen
- Scripting Languages and Magic Sheela Caur'Lir
- Scripting Languages and Magic Mats Lidstrom
- Scripting Languages and Magic Sheela Caur'Lir
- Scripting Languages and Magic Eric Merritt
- Scripting Languages and Magic gbtmud
- Scripting Languages and Magic gbtmud
- Scripting Languages and Magic Jo Dillon
- Scripting Languages and Magic Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Scripting Languages and Magic Steven Metke
- Scripting Languages and Magic Alex Chacha
- Scripting Languages and Magic Jason Murdick
- Scripting Languages and Magic J C Lawrence
- Scripting Languages and Magic Nicolai Hansen
- Scripting Languages and Magic Sheela Caur'Lir
- Scripting Languages and Magic Adam Burr
- Budget (was size) Michael Sellers
- Graphics engine choice (size) Derek Licciardi
- Graphics engine choice (size) Paolo Piselli
- Graphics engine choice (size) Sheela Caur'Lir
- R: size Ghilardi Filippo
- [TECH] TCP fundamental throughput limits? ceo
- [TECH] TCP fundamental throughput limits? Jeremy Noetzelman
- [TECH] TCP fundamental throughput limits? Sheela Caur'Lir
- [TECH] TCP fundamental throughput limits? Miroslav Silovic
- [TECH] TCP fundamental throughput limits? Jeremy Noetzelman
- [list] Scripting Languages and Magic Scion Altera
- [list] Scripting Languages and Magic Talanithus HTML
- SSH Encryption on data stream Craig H Fry
- SSH Encryption on data stream squid
- SSH Encryption on data stream Mike Shaver
- SSH Encryption on data stream Brian Hook
- SSH Encryption on data stream Amanda Walker
- SSH Encryption on data stream Christopher Allen
- SSH Encryption on data stream Christopher Allen
- SSH Encryption on data stream Mike Shaver
- SSH Encryption on data stream ceo
- SSH Encryption on data stream F. Randall Farmer
- SSH Encryption on data stream J C Lawrence
- SSH Encryption on data stream Amanda Walker
- SSH Encryption on data stream Felix A. Croes
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 4, Issue 30 Lee Sheldon
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 4, Issue 30 Matt Mihaly
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 4, Issue 30 Dave Rickey
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 4, Issue 30 Lee Sheldon
- MUD-Dev Digest, Vol 4, Issue 30 Matt Mihaly
- Web vs. Java client Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Web vs. Java client Torgny Bjers
- Web vs. Java client ceo
- Web vs. Java client Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Web vs. Java client Elia Morling
- Web vs. Java client Christopher Allen
- Web vs. Java client Baar - Lord of the Seven Suns
- Web vs. Java client Christopher Allen
- Web vs. Java client Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Web vs. Java client Christopher Kohnert
- Web vs. Java client Christopher Allen
- Web vs. Java client ceo@grexengine.com
--<cut>--
Note: This message was written via the list web archives. There is
no guarantee that the claimed author is actually the author.
--<cut>--
Original message: http://www.kanga.nu/archives/MUD-Dev-L/2003Q4/msg00130.php
On Mon, 27 Oct 2003 21:41:40 -0800
"Christopher Allen" <ChristopherA@skotos.net> wrote:
> Christopher Kohnert wrote:
>> But, on the whole, you can get quite a lot of functionality out
>> of a 1.1 Java applet and be pretty sure it'll work almost
>> everywhere. There are tons of tiny discrepancies, but they are
>> easily worked around.
> Our experience has been entirely the opposite. We even have a Sun
> engineer who is a player who has been helping us, and he'd been
> having a hard time.
Sun's support for 1.1.x has been shamefully poor ever since 1.2
debuted. Major known bugs (especially in the windowing system, AWT)
in 1.1 classes have persisted for more than 5 years without a fix -
even in the current versions of java (I noticed one of my hated bugs
from 1.1.x was finally fixed in 1.4.2 earlier this year!)
However, it's worth trying to understand why this has happened: each
new major release of java has been a gigantic leap. 1.1 -> 1.2 made
java a "real" language in terms of standard lib support (added basic
things like List classes!). 1.3 changed the execution system
massively, IIRC - and (IIRC) has paved the way for many of the lower
level improvements in 1.4 and 1.5. 1.4 has completely revolutionized
java as a systems language by allowing it to interact directly with
the OS - and even hardware - in 100% pure java (YMMV: you usually
need a one-line piece of C/C++ code to grab a pointer to your shared
memory, but after that it's all java).
So, you can see why Sun has done this. I am afraid I have no
sypmathy (any more) for anyone who tries to make a "1.1-compatible"
java app - 1.1 is not supported on most platforms any more (...so
why try and make a 1.1 comaptible app?), and it constrains you to
using bad API's (that were completely replaced in later versions
because - with hindsight! - the original API design was so poor). I
used to do 1.1-compatible apps, when I was trying to support apps on
certain niche platforms that didn't have any reall ongoing JVM
developers...so I also know well how painful it is.
About 3 years ago I realised that if a platform didn't have a 1.2
JVM then it's 1.1 JVM was so unsupported/under-developed that it
probably wasn't worth bothering any more...
> The biggest problem is the Macintosh, which is the most important
> platform other then Windows. We constantly have to fight scrolling
AFAICS, Java only finally became a realistic prospect on Mac with
Java 1.4.x / Mac OS X. I've heard a lot of 1st-hand reports of
complex apps working perfectly on Apple's 1.4.x implentation,
although there are still considerably more bugs than on Sun's
windows/solaris/linux JVM's. But Apple is doing a great job right
now (especially compared to the bad old days of "Java 2.xx" on Mac,
which wasn't even 1.2.x compatible (it was semi-compatible, IIRC !).
> Our linux java clients work acceptably, but not as nice and clean
> as our windows native ActiveX client. Our mozilla/javascript based
> client is on par with our native ActiveX client, with much less
> development time.
..and for all that I've said above, I agree that Moz's UI stuff is
probably best for your uses.
But many people may want to reconsider in 3-6 months time - Sun are
putting OpenGL support into the core libs for 1.5, and the linux JVM
is (almost) guaranteed to use OGL for *all* it's GUI rendering
code. Unsurprisingly, there is considerable clamour from win32 devs
who would like the win32 GUI code to also run on OGL (it currently
"partially" uses DirectX...i.e. it doesn't make use of all the
acceleration that it could do). - Web vs. Java client Baar - Lord of the Seven Suns
- Web vs. Java client ceo@grexengine.com
- Web vs. Java client Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Web vs. Java client Matt Mihaly
- Web vs. Java client Christopher Allen
- Web vs. Java client Jeff Fuller
- Web vs. Java client(?) Joshua Judson Rosen
- Web vs. Java client(?) Eric Merritt
- Web vs. Java client Eric Merritt
- Web vs. Java client Mike Shaver
- Web vs. Java client Jeff Fuller
- Web vs. Java client Mike Shaver
- Web vs. Java client Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Web vs. Java client Matt Mihaly
- Web vs. Java client Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes
- Web vs. Java client Ben Greear
- Web vs. Java client Jeff Fuller
- Web vs. Java client Ben Greear
- Web vs. Java client Kevin Reid
- Web vs. Java client Joshua Judson Rosen
- Web vs. Java client Jeff Fuller
- Web vs. Java client Adam Burr
- Web vs. Java client Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Web vs. Java client Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Web vs. Java client Matt Mihaly
- Web vs. Java client Matt Mihaly
- MudDev FAQ - part 2 Marian Griffith
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Richard Brown
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Eric Lee {GAMES}
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Michael Sellers
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a gam e Peter Tyson
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Edward Glowacki
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Oliver Smith
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Dave Rickey
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a gam e Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a gam e Michael Sellers
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a gam e Jeff Thompson
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a gam e Sheela Caur'Lir
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a gam e Derek Licciardi
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Lee Sheldon
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game ceo
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Lee Sheldon
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Patricia Pizer
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Lee Sheldon
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Patricia Pizer
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Oliver Smith
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Oliver Smith
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Lee Sheldon
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a gam e Koster, Raph
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a gam e Lee Sheldon
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Sheela Caur'Lir
- MMORPG: where to start for making and running a game Damion Schubert
- Open Source Rules Engine Craig H Fry
- Open Source Rules Engine Emil Eifrem
- [NEWS] The Latest in TV Reality Michael Tresca
- [NEWS] The Latest in TV Reality Dave Rickey