February 2002
- Article: Moral Outrage - Bizarre as it seems, indignation makes the world go round (from New Scientist) Christopher Allen
- premium servers Matt Mihaly
- premium servers Talies the Wanderer
- premium servers Matt Mihaly
- premium servers Christopher Allen
- premium servers Christopher Allen
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Marian Griffith
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) rayzam
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) John Buehler
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Marian Griffith
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) John Buehler
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Sasha Hart
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Freeman, Jeff
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Madrona Tree
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Talies the Wanderer
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Marc Hernandez
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Sasha Hart
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Sasha Hart
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Rogue_Buddha
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Christopher Allen
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Sasha Hart
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- NEWS: Release of v0.21 of Murpg Core Mike Povoski
- story vs. screenplay Nicholas E. Walker
- story vs. screenplay Koster, Raph
- story vs. screenplay Sean K
- story vs. screenplay ghovs
- story vs. screenplay Nicholas E. Walker
- story vs. screenplay ghovs
- story vs. screenplay James Edward Gray II
- story vs. screenplay ghovs
- story vs. screenplay Marian Griffith
- story vs. screenplay Nicholas E. Walker
- story vs. screenplay Marian Griffith
- MUD Protocols? Neil Edwards
- MUD Protocols? Matt Owen
- MUD Protocols? Bruce Mitchener
- MUD Protocols? Andrew Wilson
- MUD Protocols? Phillip Lenhardt
- MUD Protocols? Lars Duening
- MUD Protocols? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Protocols? Jon Leonard
- MUD Protocols? Chris Gray
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Koster, Raph
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Geoffrey MacDougall
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Matt Mihaly
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Rudy Fink
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dave Shepherd
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Derek Licciardi
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dave Rickey
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Richard A. Bartle
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Blane Bramble
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Sellers, Mike
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights kuvasza
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Matt Mihaly
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Frank Crowell
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Freeman, Jeff
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Frank Crowell
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dave Rickey
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dr. Cat
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Alex Kay
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Jeff Cole
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights John Buehler
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Jeff Cole
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights John Buehler
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dr. Cat
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Matt Mihaly
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Vincent Archer
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights John Buehler
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Marc Bowden
- [BIZ] Players - GMs ratio Mathieu Castelli
- [BIZ] Players - GMs ratio Robert A. Rice Jr.
- [BIZ] Players - GMs ratio Mathieu Castelli
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Jeff Cole
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Matt Mihaly
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Koster, Raph
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Matt Mihaly
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Jeff Cole
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. John Buehler
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Marc Bowden
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Travis Casey
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Matt Mihaly
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. John Buehler
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Jon Lambert
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Michael Tresca
- Merc++ the_sage2000@juno.com
- ADMIN: Bullets. conservation of momentum etc J C Lawrence
- EULA Structure Eli Stevens
- EULA Structure Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- EULA Structure Matt Mihaly
- EULA Structure Frank Crowell
- EULA Structure Bruce Mitchener
- EULA Structure Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- EULA Structure Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Thank you from MudWorld ucmm@inetsolve.com
- Thank you from MudWorld Matt Mihaly
- Thank you from MudWorld Matt Owen
- Thank you from MudWorld Chris Lloyd
- Re[4]: "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- What's Important in a Driver? Jonathan Ross
- Everquest player survey with interesting points Olof Ekström
- Myth II Game server has gone open source Frank Crowell
- Question about threads. Anderson, David
- Question about threads. J C Lawrence
- Question about threads. Nathan F. Yospe
- Question about threads. Sean K
- Question about threads. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Question about threads. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- TECH : MUD game on a multi agent system Cyril MudDev
- TECH : MUD game on a multi agent system Marc Bowden
- TECH : MUD game on a multi agent system John Robert Arras
- TECH : MUD game on a multi agent system Robert Zubek
- Using the survey Info to make real factual argument WAS: Everquest player survey with interesting points Sasha Hart
- [BIZ] Selling Sex, Power, and Prestige Dave Kennerly
- [BIZ] Selling Sex, Power, and Prestige Sasha Hart
- Mob (NPC) behavior William Murdick
- Mob (NPC) behavior Freeman, Jeff
- Mob (NPC) behavior Valerio Santinelli
- Mob (NPC) behavior Sean K
- Mob (NPC) behavior Sasha Hart
- Mob (NPC) behavior J C Lawrence
- Mob (NPC) behavior Kevin Reid
- Mob (NPC) behavior Mike Povoski
- Mob (NPC) behavior Sasha Hart
- [TECH] Event Queue System the_sage2000@juno.com
- [TECH] Event Queue System Lars Duening
- [TECH] Event Queue System J C Lawrence
- [TECH] Event Queue System Phillip Lenhardt
- [TECH] Event Queue System Lars Duening
- [TECH] Event Queue System Blane Bramble
- [TECH] Event Queue System John Robert Arras
- [TECH] Event Queue System Kwon Ekstrom
- [TECH] Event Queue System Jon Leonard
- Immersion lawsuit Frank Crowell
- Spouse play (was Using the survey Info to make real Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spouse play (was Using the survey Info to make real Lars Duening
- RP definitions J C Lawrence
- roleplaying Matt Mihaly
- Girl's Perspective (was: Boys and Girls) Katy Morris
- Girl's Perspective (was: Boys and Girls) Paul Schwanz
- Girl's Perspective (was: Boys and Girls) Katy Anderson {Morris}
- Girl's Perspective (was: Boys and Girls) Amanda Walker
- Spouse play Sasha Hart
- Student Interview Steve Wilson
- Statistics (was: Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls)) Sasha Hart
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- I 0Wn Y0o, d00d (Latest 'Biting The Hand' column at Skotos) Christopher Allen
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Koster, Raph
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Richard A. Bartle
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Christopher Allen
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Travis Casey
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Jeff Freeman
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Eric Rhea
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators bruce@cubik.org
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Jon Lambert
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Travis Nixon
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- [TECH] Peer-to-peer downloads for MMO games Olof Ekstrom
Abstract:
A suggestion for use of peer-to-peer technology to limit network
demands on servers in massively multiplayer scenarios with large
download volumes.
Keywords:
Client side caching, peer-to-peer, patching, network bandwidth
Content: Suggested service outline, request for input
I'm sure readers of this list are more knowledgeable than myself
when it comes to the exact cost of bandwidth, but suffice it to say
that bandwidth is, at least for MMORPGs, a substantial part of the
operational budget. So there is need to limit network bandwidth
usage.
MMORPGs have a substantial need for patching, this is no
secret. WWIIO had a ~70M mandatory patch upon release, updates and
patches of various titles frequently demand similar downloads. To
address this issue, I came up with a design to offload the bandwidth
demands of the game operator. To my knowledge, noone has tried this
solution yet.
Recently peer-to-peer (P2P hereafter) technologies have received a
lot of attention. The gaming industry is interested in control and
I'm not terribly surprised to see that P2P has not been a popular
design feature. In online games, additional problems in the form of
hacking and cheating in various ways add to developers' cautiousness
for the subject. I believe it is doable, and this is what I set out
to do:
Terms:
system - all the services and machines operated by the provider
of the application
service - a server providing files, maintained by the owner of
the system
client - an application running on a customer's computer
provider - an application making something available to others,
either a service provided by the system or a feature of an
application on an end user's computer)
- On demand, dynamic background patching. The client receives
updates of the player's surroundings and then knows what media it
needs. If that data is missing or corrupt, the necessary files are
requested from the server.
- Clients are registered as they connect, collecting up- and
downstream bitrates and whether the client can support hosting
media. This is a run-time registration only, not customer or
subscription which are separate as needed by the system.
- The server system provides download services and client pairing
- Upon request for a media file, the download service either
provides the file directly or notifies one client to act as server
and the other where to get the file. When assigning P2P client and
server roles, the service must track current bandwidth usage at
both ends. The client requesting the download also receives a
checksum map of the file requested with additional data necessary
to detect corrupt or tampered data.
- Clients verify their media files via checksums. If corrupt data
is encountered, the download service is notified and a new data
provider assigned. The service may take steps to correct the
download provider (the client that provided corrupt data - at the
least, the client should be forced to repatch the data on its own
installation)
- To additionally prevent malicious tampering, media files are not
taken from a client in their entirety but in fragments. Typically
only a few kbytes in each block. This way only blocks that pass
checksum tests can be provided, and a checksum of the complete
file can also alert the system to tampering or corruption.
- The stream for download must be throttled so as not to interfere
with actual game updates (patching bitmaps must not prevent the
user from seeing what is happening in the game)
- The media stream (the P2P stream mentioned above) is separate
from the game update stream, ie no game data updates occur in this
stream.
The main hurdles to overcome to make this implementation a reality
and, most of all, useful are as I see them:
- Server processing. The workload for keeping the system in
operation is tremendous. I honestly think the advantages in
bandwidth costs should pay the hardware expense, if not at this
time then within a year or two. Continuous operation also pays off
- buying a server is a one time cost (let's skip other financing
options for now, they don't change basic facts), while bandwidth
costs every day, every hour, every minute.
- Customer client bandwidth. Widespread use of broadband services
is necessary. Also necessary is that clients be configured to
accept and allow P2P usage. MMORPGs today all use less than what a
56k modem provides and most of the bandwidth of broadband
customers is unused.
- Clients must either be forced to accept being used as hosts
(less than tasteful if you ask me) or given a good reason to
provide it, such as subscription cost reduction or otherwise
improved service.
To additionally improve the concept, one could
- Use multicasting for downloads (this will probably not be
feasible until IPv6 is widespread (2006?) - correct me if I'm
wrong - I know very well it's possible with IPv4, but is it
practical? I think not)
- Use an engine where all media is seamless. There are no zones,
the playing area can be continuously expanded on the edges.
- Require no data (or very limited amounts of data) for
installation. (The application can be distributed on CDROM or DVD,
that is just more convenient than downloading)
- LOD schemes for all media, possibly with a "lowest acceptable
level" of media file installation which must be present for the
user to commence playing. Once the client is verified to have the
necessary basic files installed, the rest can be left to
background patching.
- Any type of data can be patched this way - this applies to for
example terrain, textures, models, animations, audio clips or
binary excutables and whatever other data the application uses.
- The client installation could maintain the data in separate
files or in indexed composite files. This is not relevant to the
construct, just a separate improvement.
- A verification system must be in place on the client. The amount
of checksums etc that must be transmitted to verify a client's
data must be limited somehow - this is a bigger problem than it
might at first seem, if one takes the unknown state of the client
machine into account. (This is probably where the least acceptable
client installation comes in.)
Notes:
- The concept of an in-application P2P system (imagine Windows
Update having a built-in Napster function to offload Microsoft's
servers when propagating patches - Kazaa, a file sharing service
like Napster, uses its own service to distribute its binary btw,
I'm sure there are more examples) is certainly applicable in other
contexts and the demands are quite similar. I merely choose this
(online games) context because that was the application it was
designed for, plus it's one of the best fits for the scheme that I
can think of. There are security concerns, certainly. Such
concerns is the reason we study computer security and crytography
and so on - a problem requires a solution, not resignation.
- The 2006 date is what I recall to be the deadline for when the
world needs to have IPv6 in place, as well as the date for when it
could reasonably be in place. Happy coincidence, that. - As a
reference to a block-comparing file synchronizing service, see the
implementation of rsynch, a very nifty *nix utility/service. (I
have not gotten to this particular point in the implementation
yet, I was only told that it does things this way - it is relevant
for block-wise synchronizing, not for P2P which it does not do).
- The 3D patent mentioned - I don't know whose it was or when it
was published. I know it was reported on Gamasutra among others, a
search in their archives might be in place.
- I am not unaware of the undeniable insecure nature of a client
installation. Any data that is present on a client machine (in
persistent or temporary memory) must be considered cracked and
tampered with.
- Run time properties of the scheme - the scheme requires a
massive scenario to be worthwhile. It also becomes profitable only
in cases where there are substantial downloads.
- The mandatory question: where is my download so I can use this?
Answer: Nowhere. I have no working implementation of this,
especially not in its entirety and in particular, nothing for
free.
Perhaps some on this list can find the idea useful or interesting,
perhaps you can spot a fundamental flaw. I realize that it applies
very little to MUDs, but it certainly applies to MMO and therefore I
submit it here. If this topic has been discussed before on the
MUDdev list or elsewhere, I am not aware of it (yes, I have
searched). Any additional data on bandwidth usage in existing
MMORPGs would be interesting to know as well. The bandwidth
requirements of the client is usually well known (as stated on the
box) but the actual usage and/or cost for the game operator would be
interesting to know. I recall a statement from Verant saying the
bandwidth cost was somewhere in the range of 35-50% of their cost of
operations - don't know where I saw it, sorry (I have tried to find
it again but failed).
Please let me know of any reactions. Apologies for the somewhat
pompous format - that's just my style I guess. I'm not trying to
stake claims for fame. Apologies also for the longish post, I hope
some of you found it readable.
- Olof
/em fully expects to be told this is a silly idea, still wants to try - [TECH] Peer-to-peer downloads for MMO games Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [TECH] Peer-to-peer downloads for MMO games Oliver Jowett
- [TECH] Peer-to-peer downloads for MMO games Jon Leonard
- character longevity statistics Val Trullinger
- MajorMUD recollections. Online Worlds Timeline Update Patrick Mahle
- MajorMUD and other BBS MUDs (was: Online Worlds Timeline Update) Scott Jennings
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Azeraab
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Buddy Grizzard
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Dave Rickey
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Marc Bowden
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Scott Jennings
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Vincent Archer
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Buddy Grizzard
- Skotos TT& Christopher Allen