February 2002
- Article: Moral Outrage - Bizarre as it seems, indignation makes the world go round (from New Scientist) Christopher Allen
- premium servers Matt Mihaly
- premium servers Talies the Wanderer
- premium servers Matt Mihaly
- premium servers Christopher Allen
- premium servers Christopher Allen
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Marian Griffith
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) rayzam
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) John Buehler
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Marian Griffith
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) John Buehler
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Sasha Hart
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Freeman, Jeff
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Madrona Tree
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Talies the Wanderer
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Marc Hernandez
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Sasha Hart
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Sasha Hart
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Rogue_Buddha
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Matt Mihaly
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Christopher Allen
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Sasha Hart
- Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- NEWS: Release of v0.21 of Murpg Core Mike Povoski
- story vs. screenplay Nicholas E. Walker
- story vs. screenplay Koster, Raph
- story vs. screenplay Sean K
- story vs. screenplay ghovs
- story vs. screenplay Nicholas E. Walker
- story vs. screenplay ghovs
- story vs. screenplay James Edward Gray II
- story vs. screenplay ghovs
- story vs. screenplay Marian Griffith
- story vs. screenplay Nicholas E. Walker
- story vs. screenplay Marian Griffith
- MUD Protocols? Neil Edwards
- MUD Protocols? Matt Owen
- MUD Protocols? Bruce Mitchener
- MUD Protocols? Andrew Wilson
- MUD Protocols? Phillip Lenhardt
- MUD Protocols? Lars Duening
- MUD Protocols? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD Protocols? Jon Leonard
- MUD Protocols? Chris Gray
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Koster, Raph
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Geoffrey MacDougall
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Matt Mihaly
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Rudy Fink
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dave Shepherd
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Derek Licciardi
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dave Rickey
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Richard A. Bartle
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Blane Bramble
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Sellers, Mike
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights kuvasza
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Matt Mihaly
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Frank Crowell
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Freeman, Jeff
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Frank Crowell
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dave Rickey
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dr. Cat
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Alex Kay
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Jeff Cole
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights John Buehler
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Jeff Cole
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights John Buehler
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Dr. Cat
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Matt Mihaly
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Vincent Archer
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights John Buehler
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- BlackSnow sues Mythic for online property rights Marc Bowden
- [BIZ] Players - GMs ratio Mathieu Castelli
- [BIZ] Players - GMs ratio Robert A. Rice Jr.
- [BIZ] Players - GMs ratio Mathieu Castelli
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Jeff Cole
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Matt Mihaly
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Koster, Raph
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Matt Mihaly
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Jeff Cole
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. John Buehler
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Marc Bowden
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Travis Casey
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Matt Mihaly
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. John Buehler
- Ethical behavior ... a hijacking. Jon Lambert
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) J C Lawrence
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Matt Mihaly
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Michael Tresca
- Merc++ the_sage2000@juno.com
- ADMIN: Bullets. conservation of momentum etc J C Lawrence
- EULA Structure Eli Stevens
- EULA Structure Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- EULA Structure Matt Mihaly
- EULA Structure Frank Crowell
- EULA Structure Bruce Mitchener
- EULA Structure Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- EULA Structure Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Thank you from MudWorld ucmm@inetsolve.com
- Thank you from MudWorld Matt Mihaly
- Thank you from MudWorld Matt Owen
- Thank you from MudWorld Chris Lloyd
- Re[4]: "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Travis Casey
- What's Important in a Driver? Jonathan Ross
- Everquest player survey with interesting points Olof Ekström
- Myth II Game server has gone open source Frank Crowell
- Question about threads. Anderson, David
- Question about threads. J C Lawrence
- Question about threads. Nathan F. Yospe
- Question about threads. Sean K
- Question about threads. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Question about threads. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- TECH : MUD game on a multi agent system Cyril MudDev
- TECH : MUD game on a multi agent system Marc Bowden
- TECH : MUD game on a multi agent system John Robert Arras
- TECH : MUD game on a multi agent system Robert Zubek
- Using the survey Info to make real factual argument WAS: Everquest player survey with interesting points Sasha Hart
- [BIZ] Selling Sex, Power, and Prestige Dave Kennerly
- [BIZ] Selling Sex, Power, and Prestige Sasha Hart
- Mob (NPC) behavior William Murdick
- Mob (NPC) behavior Freeman, Jeff
- Mob (NPC) behavior Valerio Santinelli
- Mob (NPC) behavior Sean K
- Mob (NPC) behavior Sasha Hart
- Mob (NPC) behavior J C Lawrence
- Mob (NPC) behavior Kevin Reid
- Mob (NPC) behavior Mike Povoski
- Mob (NPC) behavior Sasha Hart
- [TECH] Event Queue System the_sage2000@juno.com
- [TECH] Event Queue System Lars Duening
- [TECH] Event Queue System J C Lawrence
- [TECH] Event Queue System Phillip Lenhardt
- [TECH] Event Queue System Lars Duening
- [TECH] Event Queue System Blane Bramble
- [TECH] Event Queue System John Robert Arras
- [TECH] Event Queue System Kwon Ekstrom
- [TECH] Event Queue System Jon Leonard
- Immersion lawsuit Frank Crowell
- Spouse play (was Using the survey Info to make real Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spouse play (was Using the survey Info to make real Lars Duening
- RP definitions J C Lawrence
- roleplaying Matt Mihaly
- Girl's Perspective (was: Boys and Girls) Katy Morris
- Girl's Perspective (was: Boys and Girls) Paul Schwanz
- Girl's Perspective (was: Boys and Girls) Katy Anderson {Morris}
- Girl's Perspective (was: Boys and Girls) Amanda Walker
- Spouse play Sasha Hart
[Ola]
> The games are designed to attract men (boys), women watch their
> spouse play, their husband is eager to get them on (to not feel
> guilty about playing, to share or whatever) and buy an extra
> account.
I saw at least in the EQ data indications that this might not even
be the mode, just something which happens a substantial part of the
time. Perhaps more with older women than younger (that's
speculation from the age distribution of spouse play, if I
remember).
Although it's a big number I would be loathe to brutalize the
pattern (even the relatively clear-cut pattern I might expect out of
EQ) by making it into a sweeping generalization about men and women.
Especially if I am changing my design on this basis, I want to know
how is in some detail rather than just be able to say that men and
women play differently (and then go zooming off to weird conclusions
about how I need to add more mind-numbing crafting or something.)
> Indeed I have yet to meet couples where it is obvious that the
> woman spends more of her free time playing than her husband.
I'll take your word that you have seen this. But I do wonder how
younger women who play a lot and aren't paired off fit in. Here we
run up against the problem that age is confounded with cohort:
perhaps as time goes on, "young women" and "older women" will differ
less because the difference here was actually one of age of exposure
to computing, early learning, whatever.
> (When guessing about player gender my basic heuristic is
...
> Not reliable at all, but there seems to be some differences out
> there.)
The data say to me that there are differences, I couldn't agree
more. But also that each group is heterogenous. Because we are
looking at means, we have a terrible idea of how big individual
differences are as compared to these sex differences.
This might be a funny question, but do you keep track of your
predictions, like in a journal? I can imagine this being a great way
of exploring MUD populations, without a lot of setup but with pretty
good validity/reliability - at least for things that I can trust
myself to be honest about ;)
> Current games are not designed for "spouse play". Group level
> limits means that the man will have to level his wife's
> character. No valid alternative advancement paths. No useful
> classes that are easier to play up (but less powerful in terms of
> brute force). Etc..
This is very frustrating in the more general case of having friends
and acquaintances in the game. I notice it a lot in AO, and as a
result see lots of character-switching to be the level of
friends. (On the other hand, this might simply be people who care
less about the game and would rather help their friends out.)
Freeform roleplay games don't seem to suffer it as much. I think the
big problem is that the player's social environment is not well
enough pried apart from his character's status. Cf. the problem in
PD games of, when you die and change your name, losing the identity
you have built up in the game as a player. Everyone I have actually
watched play MUDs has used an instant messenger window concurrently
(for what the anecdote is worth.)
The basic problem in maintaining social continuity might
substantially be driving our playing-with-boyfriend-from-outside-EQ
effect, too.
> I would a priori expect player frequenting websites often enough
> to become aware of a survey and also willing to take the pain of
> filling out surveys to be rather involved in the game.
Yeah, that is terrible. I still have faith in some of the answers,
like I think I can believe that players are mostly not lying about
how much they play a week. There is some noise but it is pretty
unparsimonious to assume that women are all inflating their
estimates or something.
I am pretty sure that the little essays the players filled out are
REALLY influenced by this kind of thing, given the kind of stuff
that goes on in forums.
> Of course, I am also rather sceptical about quantitative studies
> where people assess themselves and put themselves on a scale.
Yeah, it sucks but it's even worse to have totally unclassifiable,
or hopelessly laborious to code, data. I just put less confidence in
the things where people are more likely to manage their
presentation, e.g. to try to be representatives of their gender
(e.g. I am a girl, this survey is asking about girls, I should take
this opportunity to put in that I hate GoP. Or love it. or whatever)
or when the question is asking about an opinion versus something
more or less objective like how much they RP cross-gendered.
Even if different subjects interpret the scales differently, all
you're doing is analyzing them like any number, so the individual
differences will mostly just add noise and prevent you from getting
significance, if anything.
> Why not expect gender differences in how people interpret
> questions and approach surveys? Gee, all the data are ruined even
> before you got started.
I think I disagree just on heuristic grounds. It is a good critique
but often enough I read something, say basically what you just said,
and then read a followup where a nice control nixes it. Hopefully I
am not repeating myself ad nauseam, but I don't put much stock in
opinion questions to begin with, and mostly just ignore everything
that isn't completely straightforward to answer. After all, it's not
my thesis, it's just a dataset to me :)
> What really bugs me about the site is that there is no real
> analysis, just some averages of individual variables. Does the
> fact that women are less willing to sell their characters tell me
> anything? I do need to know something about the correlation
> between personal finances variables and this willingness to sell?
Hmm, there is a lot of correlational stuff in there.. I just thought
it was interesting because this is the kind of topic which spawns
endless opinion wars, even when some information is out there,
abundant information in some cases.
> Anyone that plays and socialize on EQ do have information on this.
Yes! Of course, your average EQ player probably has a set of friends
she deals with who are not randomly picked (I would expect at the
least some self-grouping by age.) Their sample is going to be just
as biased as this study's, if not more so.
And "anyone" is not necessarily going to be perfectly honest or
unbiased in how she derives conclusions from the information at
hand.
So the information I could get by asking any EQ player what they
think about finer points (I'm sure they have a good idea of how
often they are attacked, how much they play etc. but other things
can get difficult) is not so useful, if for no other reason than
because the informal way the data was collected & analyzed could
obscure any kind of manipulation or bias at all, prevents
replication, etc. and this short-circuits many arguments I'd make to
others even if I believe it.
> I personally trust that in-depth knowledge in a smaller set of
> cases more than surveys like these that tend to be shallow and
> hide a lot of bias and misconceptions.
Well, this survey did solicit rather a lot of free responses, and
the page goes on and on with them. But even with just one of these
reports, it is very hard to analyze them in a way that isn't
self-serving, and even if you can, it is difficult to convince
people that you weren't serving yourself. I don't really know what
it means if half of the sample says that they think the game is too
violent, especially when they are drawn from forums which probably
deal with the same issues over and over again.
The bias situation is a lot better when you at least have exposed
your methods and data to some extent, because then people can figure
out the biases by looking at your paper. - Student Interview Steve Wilson
- Statistics (was: Girl appeal (was: Boys and Girls)) Sasha Hart
- "Advanced" use of virtual worlds? (MMORPGs & MUDs) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- I 0Wn Y0o, d00d (Latest 'Biting The Hand' column at Skotos) Christopher Allen
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Koster, Raph
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Richard A. Bartle
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Christopher Allen
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Travis Casey
- Online Worlds Timeline Update Jeff Freeman
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Eric Rhea
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators bruce@cubik.org
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Jon Lambert
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Travis Nixon
- DCMA -- another weapon in the fight against Emulators Frank Crowell
- [TECH] Peer-to-peer downloads for MMO games Olof Ekstrom
- [TECH] Peer-to-peer downloads for MMO games Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [TECH] Peer-to-peer downloads for MMO games Oliver Jowett
- [TECH] Peer-to-peer downloads for MMO games Jon Leonard
- character longevity statistics Val Trullinger
- MajorMUD recollections. Online Worlds Timeline Update Patrick Mahle
- MajorMUD and other BBS MUDs (was: Online Worlds Timeline Update) Scott Jennings
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Azeraab
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Buddy Grizzard
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Dave Rickey
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Marc Bowden
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Scott Jennings
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Vincent Archer
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- DaoC postmortem at Gamasutra Buddy Grizzard
- Skotos TT& Christopher Allen