February 2001
- Rogue-Like Mud? Ron Moore
- Issues of Copyright (was Ebay bans character selling) geoffrey@yorku.ca
- brazil the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Dogma 2001 Frank Crowell
- Dogma 2001 David Turner
- FW: Article on Global Verbs & Bulk Bug Christopher Allen
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction Frank Crowell
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction Greg Underwood
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction the_logos@www.achaea.com
- bandwidth the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Is immersipresense going to make a come back? Frank Crowell
- New Scientist Article... Eric Rhea
- New Scientist Article... Alistair Milne
- New Scientist Article... rayzam
- New Scientist Article... Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- New Scientist Article... rayzam
- volunteers the_logos@www.achaea.com
- volunteers Timothy Dang
- volunteers Jon Morrow
- volunteers the_logos@www.achaea.com
- volunteers Timothy Dang
- The Aedon rule system (was: FW: Article on Global Verbs & Bulk Bug) Federico Di Gregorio
- Content is Not King (from First Monday) Bruce
- [sweng-gamedev] BYOND game development system (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [sweng-gamedev] BYOND game development system (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Medievia interview Koster, Raph
- Medievia interview Alex
- Medievia interview Madman Across the Water
- Medievia interview Koster, Raph
- Medievia interview Joe O'Connor
- Medievia interview pyrographer@comcast.net
- Medievia interview J C Lawrence
- FW: Article on Data Inheritance Christopher Allen
- FW: Article on Data Inheritance Kevin Littlejohn
- job opportunities Koster, Raph
- Those (in)famous EQ stories bubba@bubba.mud
- Writing articles (was: FW: Article on Data Inheritance) Bruce
- Writing articles (was: FW: Article on Data Inheritance) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] Ben Chambers
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] Warren Powell
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
- Modular Design Issues RFC Russ Lewis
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
- Modular Design Issues RFC J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC Bruce
- Modular Design Issues RFC J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
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- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
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- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
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- Party at DundraCon Christopher Allen
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #246 - 6 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #246 - 6 msgs the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Roundtable status, changes, and future. J C Lawrence
- Roundtable status, changes, and future. J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds Hulbert, Leland
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- MMORPGs: Pointers to System Specs? Lars Duening
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- Shameless Plug. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
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- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #249 - 28 msgs Dr. Cat
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- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #249 - 28 msgs the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Job search Dr. Cat
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Ryan Rhodes
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- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Marc Bowden
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Jeff Freeman
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Ryan Rhodes
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Dave Rickey
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- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Dave Rickey
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- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) S. Patrick Gallaty
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Jeff Freeman
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- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) J C Lawrence
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Jon Morrow
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Adam Casbarian
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Christopher Allen
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- A new MUD-standard John Bertoglio
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- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
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- A new MUD-standard Kevin Littlejohn
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Bruce
- A new MUD-standard Kevin Littlejohn
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Kevin Littlejohn
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard the_logos@www.achaea.com
- A new MUD-standard Frank Crowell
- Community (was: Semi Graphical Muds) Marian Griffith
- Defining a community Klyde Beattie
- Defining a community Dave Rickey
- Defining a community Jeff Freeman
- Defining a community Dave Rickey
- Defining a community Mark Watson
- Defining a community Koster, Raph
- Defining a community Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Vincent Archer
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian Hook
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) John Buehler
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian Hook
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) John Buehler
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Travis Nixon
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Koster, Raph
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Travis Casey
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Vincent Archer
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian Hook
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Dave Rickey
- MUD Schools Ben Chambers
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- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Tess Lowe
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") John Buehler
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Ananda Dawnsinger
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") David Bennett
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Adam Casbarian
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") J C Lawrence
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") rayzam
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Travis Nixon
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Marian Griffith
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") John Buehler
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Kwon Ekstrom
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Teaching ethics in MUDs Tess Lowe
- Teaching ethics in MUDs John Buehler
- Mozilla as a client (was: A new MUD-standard) Bruce
- Mozilla as a client (was: A new MUD-standard) Kwon Ekstrom
- GoPers are ants at RP picnics!... was Pay for Play(or commercial rolecall) Jon Lambert
- Condsiders Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Condsiders J C Lawrence
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- (no subject) msew
- Phantasy Star online article Koster, Raph
- Phantasy Star online article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Phantasy Star online article Koster, Raph
- Phantasy Star online article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Phantasy Star online article msew
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Adam Casbarian
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Item Distribution in Areas Jim S
- Item Distribution in Areas Brian Hook
- Item Distribution in Areas Vincent Archer
- Item Distribution in Areas rayzam
- Item Distribution in Areas Dave Rickey
- Game Developer Conference Proceedings? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Developer Conference Proceedings? Koster, Raph
- Game Developer Conference Proceedings? Timothy Dang
- Game Developer Conference Proceedings? the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Koster, Raph
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
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- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
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- New Bartle article johnbue@msn.com
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- New Bartle article John Buehler
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- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Jon Lambert
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- New Bartle article Brian Hook
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
On Sat, 10 Mar 2001, Brian Hook wrote:
> At 09:38 PM 3/10/01 +0000, matt wrote:
> While "thinking outside the box" (a phrase that is practically
> meaningless now) is laudable, people do happen to like things
> they're familiar with, be it class names, archetypes or just "being
> like that guy in that book". People know and understand elves. Now
> move on to a universe that is far more alien -- Jorune comes to mind
> -- and people balk because they don't necessarily want to relearn
> all their fundamental assumptions. While part of this can be
> attributed to their unwillingness to think outside the box, part of
> it is just a desire to play the game without subjecting yourself to
> a huge "unlearning" process followed by a massive reeducation
> period, only to lose interest in the new universe after about 2
> hours.
The masses balk, yes. The masses also balk at most good movies. While
I certainly wouldn't object to getting the money from Armageddon, it
doesn't change the fact that it's just a bunch of cliches and
formulas.
I remember having lunch with Lee Sheldon, Brian Green, and David
Kennerly at a Marin GDC roadtrip about 16 months ago. One of the
discussions we had was why the gaming community has yet to produce its
Birth of a Nation. Maybe online gamers have a more limited artistic
sensibility than movie-goers and will always want formulaic
entertainment. I certainly hope not though, as I would be unhappy not
to have products that will rise above the formulas and give me
something interesting and new to have fun with.
> I read a post on a message board once where the poster was proud of
> the fact that his "elves" were nothing at all like "normal elves".
> Specifically, he was particularly proud of the fact that by using a
> term that had prior connotations his own particular usage would be
> very jarring. Efforts like that reek of heavy-handed,
> self-congratulatory pretentiousness. I guess I fundamentally have
> an objection to "being different for differences' sake", which I
> find annoying, as opposed to "being different because I have a way I
> think would be cool".
Oh yes, I agree totally with this.
> Or, as a friend of mine likes to say, "try not to conform too much
> to being a non-conformist".
Nod, like the supposed non-conformist punk culture (funny how
identical many of them look).
>> A mage and an archer are the same because you've made them the
>> same. Achaea's mages are nothing like archers, for instance.
> I had hoped that my posting made it clear I was talking about
> archetypical spell-sling fireball-vomiting mages in archetypical
> combat oriented games. As such, my statement holds true.
Well then, we have no argument. If your argument is that "In games
where the mages are spell-slinging fireball-vomiting mages, the mages
are spell-slinging fireball-vomiting mages." I certainly can't
disagree. I was not disputing this. I was attacking making all mages
so similar in games.
>> Listen, my major objection is the same objection I have to most
>> mainstream movies. They are too formulaic.
> That's vehemently stating the obvious. And the same thing applies
> to games. When games like Homeworld, Half-life (!), and Deus Ex are
> praised as being original, you know there are problems.
I'd be curious to see who is praising those games as original.
> But my point -- and I think you see this -- is that often things are
> formulaic because those formulae are successful, popular and fun.
> There is absolutely nothing wrong with this.
Depends on what your goals are. If your goals are to appeal to as many
people as possible and be the McDonalds of online games (Verant's
apparent strategy), then sure, I agree 100%. I don't think there's
anything wrong with it. I and presumably many others find McDonalds to
be a lot less interesting and attractive than restaurants that are not
cookie-cutters.
Using movies as an example again, I went to a film festival last night
to watch a movie directed by an acquaintance, called "Maryam." (And
just to plug it for the director, Ebert gave it a great review!) It
was about an Iranian immigrant right after the Shah was overthrown who
moves to America to live with his uncle's family (who fled before the
revolution). Clearly it was partly derivative. As you point out,
without something familiar, it'd be a damn hard thing to experience
meaningfully. But was there much in it that would have appealed to the
masses? No. There weren't any explosions. There wasn't any maudlin
sentimentality. No sex at all. Naturally, no studio wants to release
the movie as they understand most people don't want to watch it.
I tell you though, I'd choose to watch that again over a movie like
Armaggedon. I'm not claiming to be someone you'd want to target mass
market product to. But given how many great indie movies ARE widely
released each year (most of which are utterly ignored by most
people. How many of you have seen Yi Yi?) there's certainly an
audience for them. I like to think all gamers are not of the
Armaggedon variety.
> As a matter of fact, I think it's completely reasonable to pursue
> designing a game that aims at player's preconceived notions and
> desires.
Right, though of course no game like this will ever achieve art
status. I realize most designers aren't aiming for this, and I don't
know if I am or not, but it's certainly what I admire most.
> I would hazard a guess that far more people want to be a variation
> of Conan, Legolas, Gandalf or Drizzt than Phlorgo-th'tad the
> Emulibite of Terro'dha. This isn't necessarily because people are
> small minded, unoriginal, creatively limited or sheep
> (unfortunately, those that fancy themselves original, creative and
> outside the herd often tend to think like this).
Oh really? I would say that most people are unoriginal and creatively
limited. I'm a cynic though.
> It's because sometimes people want to play a game that they can
> relate to instead of first learning what an Emulibite is, where
> Terro'dha is, why "elves" are tall, stupid, gangly creatures that
> live in the mountains, and "orkhs" are timid, erudite social animals
> with a fear of anything larger than a mosquito. And why "fighting"
> consists of oral debates in the nearest Pradallion, which is a
> clearing inside a grove of "trees", but trees are really made out of
> a hardened mineral substance.
Yes, I understand. I'd like to see games climb up out of the artistic
pit they are in, however, and at least make some attempt at art. I
want to see games treated like movies. I want to see great game
designs get respect by a class of gaming connoisseurs that I hope will
arise, similarly to the process by which it happened with film. The
masses will always have their Armaggedons. Economics dictate that. But
don't assume that everyone wants to make Armaggedon. (Myself, if I
were handed either Everquest or Achaea, I'd take Everquest, sell it,
and then fund Achaea.)
--matt - New Bartle article Adam Martin
- New Bartle article Dave Rickey
- New Bartle article Brian Hook
- New Bartle article Dave Rickey
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- New Bartle article Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
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- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article Dave Rickey
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article Freeman, Jeff
- New Bartle article Wells, Thomas
- New Bartle article Trump
- New Bartle article Brian Hook
- New Bartle article Travis Nixon
- New Bartle article Brian Hook
- New Bartle article Daniel James
- New Bartle article Brian Hook
- New Bartle article John Buehler
- New Bartle article Koster, Raph
- New Bartle article msew
- New Bartle article Vincent Archer
- New Bartle article shren
- New Bartle article Vincent Archer
- New Bartle article Timothy Dang
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article msew
- New Bartle article Koster, Raph
- New Bartle article John Buehler
- New Bartle article Koster, Raph
- New Bartle article John Buehler
- New Bartle article Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- New Bartle article Sanvean
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Brian Hook
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Travis Casey
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Travis Casey
- New Bartle article Travis Casey
- New Bartle article Timothy Dang
- New Bartle article Travis Casey
- New Bartle article Marc Bowden
- New Bartle article Marc Bowden
- New Bartle article Matt Mihaly
- everquest banning sarapis@www.achaea.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Adam Casbarian
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Willowreed@aol.com
- Yamauchi Puts the Industry In Its Place msew
- Item drain was Item Distribution in Areas Brian Hook
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #255 - 27 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #255 - 27 msgs John Buehler
- realism and unrealism Travis Casey
- realism and unrealism Federico Di Gregorio
- realism and unrealism Marian Griffith
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian Hook
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) S. Patrick Gallaty
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian Hook
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Brian Hook
- Damaging items was New Bartle article msew
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Brian Hook
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Travis Casey
- Damaging items was New Bartle article John Buehler
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Travis Casey
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #255 - 27 msgs Dr. Cat
- Distributed Processing John Buehler
- Distributed Processing Gaffney, Jeremy
- Distributed Processing John Buehler
- Distributed Processing Vincent Archer
- Distributed Processing Timothy Dang
- Distributed Processing Adam Martin
- Distributed Processing shren
- Distributed Processing Gaffney, Jeremy
- Quests + No Spoils (was: Interesting EQ rant) Corey Crawford
- Quests + No Spoils (was: Interesting EQ rant) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Where's The Line Drawn Kyndig
- Where's The Line Drawn KaVir@dial.pipex.com
- Where's The Line Drawn Frank Crowell
- Multiple Character Races John Buehler
- Multiple Character Races Brian Hook
- Multiple Character Races Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Multiple Character Races John Buehler
- Multiple Character Races Koster, Raph
- Multiple Character Races John Buehler
- Multiple Character Races ghovs
- Multiple Character Races the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Multiple Character Races Michael Tresca
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Zak Jarvis
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Freeman, Jeff
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jeff Freeman
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) shren
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Freeman, Jeff
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jon Lambert
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) F. Randall Farmer
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Nathan F.Yospe
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J. Coleman
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Kevin Littlejohn
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J. Coleman
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Freeman, Jeff
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian Hook
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) shren
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Kevin Littlejohn
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Kevin Littlejohn
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Adam Martin
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) holding99@mindspring.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) david.l.smith@home.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) holding99@mindspring.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Nathan F.Yospe
- Balance was Damaging items was New Bartle artic le Palacio, Ryan
- License Laws was Where's The Line Drawn Èric Rhéa
- License Laws was Where's The Line Drawn Frank Crowell
- Scripting Ben Chambers