February 2001
- Rogue-Like Mud? Ron Moore
- Issues of Copyright (was Ebay bans character selling) geoffrey@yorku.ca
- brazil the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Dogma 2001 Frank Crowell
- Dogma 2001 David Turner
- FW: Article on Global Verbs & Bulk Bug Christopher Allen
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction Frank Crowell
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction Greg Underwood
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction the_logos@www.achaea.com
- bandwidth the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Is immersipresense going to make a come back? Frank Crowell
- New Scientist Article... Eric Rhea
- New Scientist Article... Alistair Milne
- New Scientist Article... rayzam
- New Scientist Article... Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- New Scientist Article... rayzam
- volunteers the_logos@www.achaea.com
- volunteers Timothy Dang
- volunteers Jon Morrow
- volunteers the_logos@www.achaea.com
- volunteers Timothy Dang
- The Aedon rule system (was: FW: Article on Global Verbs & Bulk Bug) Federico Di Gregorio
- Content is Not King (from First Monday) Bruce
- [sweng-gamedev] BYOND game development system (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [sweng-gamedev] BYOND game development system (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Medievia interview Koster, Raph
- Medievia interview Alex
- Medievia interview Madman Across the Water
- Medievia interview Koster, Raph
- Medievia interview Joe O'Connor
- Medievia interview pyrographer@comcast.net
- Medievia interview J C Lawrence
- FW: Article on Data Inheritance Christopher Allen
- FW: Article on Data Inheritance Kevin Littlejohn
- job opportunities Koster, Raph
- Those (in)famous EQ stories bubba@bubba.mud
- Writing articles (was: FW: Article on Data Inheritance) Bruce
- Writing articles (was: FW: Article on Data Inheritance) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] Ben Chambers
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] Warren Powell
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
- Modular Design Issues RFC Russ Lewis
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
- Modular Design Issues RFC J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC Bruce
- Modular Design Issues RFC J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
- Modular Design Issues RFC J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Modular Design Issues RFC Greg Lewis
- Modular Design Issues RFC Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ben Chambers
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
- Modular Design Issues RFC J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC Scion Altera
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
- Modular Design Issues RFC Kwon Ekstrom
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
- Modular Design Issues RFC Kwon Ekstrom
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
- Modular Design Issues RFC Kwon Ekstrom
- Modular Design Issues RFC Scion Altera
- Modular Design Issues RFC Jo Dillon
- Modular Design Issues RFC J C Lawrence
- Party at DundraCon Christopher Allen
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #246 - 6 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #246 - 6 msgs the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Roundtable status, changes, and future. J C Lawrence
- Roundtable status, changes, and future. J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds Hulbert, Leland
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds Travis Casey
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds Scion Altera
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds Travis Casey
- Persistent Worlds Hulbert, Leland
- Persistent Worlds Jon Lambert
- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
- Persistent Worlds Jon Lambert
- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
- Persistent Worlds Jon Lambert
- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds Jon Lambert
- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
- Persistent Worlds Miroslav Silovic
- Persistent Worlds Bruce
- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
- Persistent Worlds Phillip Lenhardt
- Persistent Worlds Miroslav Silovic
- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
- Persistent Worlds Jon Lambert
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds msew
- Persistent Worlds rayzam
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds rayzam
- Persistent Worlds Travis Casey
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds Tess Lowe
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds Travis Casey
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds Kevin Littlejohn
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds Tess Lowe
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds Dave Rickey
- Persistent Worlds Eli Stevens
- Persistent Worlds John Buehler
- Persistent Worlds Nathan F.Yospe
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds Nathan F.Yospe
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds Jon Lambert
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds Jon Lambert
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds rayzam
- Persistent Worlds Nathan F.Yospe
- Persistent Worlds Christopher Allen
- Persistent Worlds Travis Casey
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds Travis Casey
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds Travis Casey
- Persistent Worlds Corey Crawford
- Persistent Worlds Marian Griffith
- Persistent Worlds Travis Casey
- Persistent Worlds the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Persistent Worlds Marian Griffith
- Persistent Worlds Brandon J. Rickman
- Persistent Worlds Nathan F.Yospe
- Persistent Worlds J C Lawrence
- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
- MMORPGs: Pointers to System Specs? Lars Duening
- MMORPGs: Pointers to System Specs? Jake Song
- Shameless Plug. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Shameless Plug. Travis Casey
- Shameless Plug. J C Lawrence
- Shameless Plug. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Shameless Plug. J C Lawrence
- Shameless Plug. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Shameless Plug. Christopher Allen
- Shameless Plug. J C Lawrence
- Shameless Plug. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Shameless Plug. J C Lawrence
- enforced roleplaying the_logos@www.achaea.com
- enforced roleplaying Sanvean
- enforced roleplaying the_logos@www.achaea.com
- enforced roleplaying Christopher Allen
- enforced roleplaying Mark Watson
- enforced roleplaying Klyde Beattie
- enforced roleplaying the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Real Life Consequences Corey Crawford
- Real Life Consequences the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Real Life Consequences J C Lawrence
- Real Life Consequences rayzam
- Real Life Consequences John Buehler
- Real Life Consequences the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Real Life Consequences J C Lawrence
- Real Life Consequences Christopher Allen
- Real Life Consequences Kerem HADIMLI
- Real Life Consequences the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Real Life Consequences Kevin Littlejohn
- Real Life Consequences John Buehler
- Real Life Consequences Kevin Littlejohn
- Real Life Consequences J C Lawrence
- Real Life Consequences John Buehler
- Real Life Consequences the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Real Life Consequences Jeff Freeman
- Real Life Consequences Marian Griffith
- Real Life Consequences David Loeser
- Real Life Consequences the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Real Life Consequences John Buehler
- Real Life Consequences David Loeser
- Real Life Consequences Rodney Lorrimar
- Real Life Consequences Michael Tresca
- Real Life Consequences J C Lawrence
- Real Life Consequences John Buehler
- Real Life Consequences the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Real Life Consequences Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Real Life Consequences Marc Bowden
- Real Life Consequences J C Lawrence
- Real Life Consequences Mike Niederer
- Real Life Consequences Jon Morrow
- Real Life Consequences Jeff Freeman
- Real Life Consequences John Buehler
- Real Life Consequences the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Real Life Consequences John Buehler
- Real Life Consequences Jeff Freeman
- Real Life Consequences John Buehler
- Real Life Consequences Jon Morrow
- Real Life Consequences J C Lawrence
- Real Life Consequences Jon Morrow
- Real Life Consequences J C Lawrence
- Real Life Consequences Michael Tresca
- Real Life Consequences msew
- Real Life Consequences Adam Casbarian
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #249 - 28 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #249 - 28 msgs the_logos@www.achaea.com
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #249 - 28 msgs the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Job search Dr. Cat
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Ryan Rhodes
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) J C Lawrence
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Marc Bowden
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Jeff Freeman
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Ryan Rhodes
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Dave Rickey
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Jeff Freeman
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Dave Rickey
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Dave Rickey
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) S. Patrick Gallaty
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Jeff Freeman
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Jon Lambert
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) J C Lawrence
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Jon Morrow
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Adam Casbarian
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Christopher Allen
- A new MUD-standard Ben Greear
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Ben Greear
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard rayzam
- A new MUD-standard katroutt@home.com
- A new MUD-standard Frank Crowell
- A new MUD-standard Bryce Harrington
- A new MUD-standard Frank Crowell
- A new MUD-standard Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Jon Lambert
- A new MUD-standard Frank Crowell
- A new MUD-standard Ryan Rhodes
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Bruce
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Chris Jones
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard John Bertoglio
- A new MUD-standard J C Lawrence
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard J C Lawrence
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Bruce
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Kevin Littlejohn
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Bruce
- A new MUD-standard Kevin Littlejohn
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Kevin Littlejohn
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard the_logos@www.achaea.com
- A new MUD-standard Frank Crowell
- Community (was: Semi Graphical Muds) Marian Griffith
- Defining a community Klyde Beattie
- Defining a community Dave Rickey
- Defining a community Jeff Freeman
- Defining a community Dave Rickey
- Defining a community Mark Watson
- Defining a community Koster, Raph
- Defining a community Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Vincent Archer
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian Hook
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) John Buehler
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian Hook
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) John Buehler
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Travis Nixon
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Koster, Raph
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Travis Casey
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Vincent Archer
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian Hook
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Dave Rickey
- MUD Schools Ben Chambers
- MUD Schools David Bennett
- MUD Schools Alex
- MUD Schools David Bennett
- MUD Schools Marc Bowden
- MUD Schools Ben Chambers
- MUD Schools Michael Tresca
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Tess Lowe
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") John Buehler
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Ananda Dawnsinger
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") David Bennett
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Adam Casbarian
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") J C Lawrence
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") rayzam
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Travis Nixon
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Marian Griffith
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") John Buehler
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Kwon Ekstrom
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Teaching ethics in MUDs Tess Lowe
- Teaching ethics in MUDs John Buehler
- Mozilla as a client (was: A new MUD-standard) Bruce
- Mozilla as a client (was: A new MUD-standard) Kwon Ekstrom
- GoPers are ants at RP picnics!... was Pay for Play(or commercial rolecall) Jon Lambert
- Condsiders Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Condsiders J C Lawrence
- Condsiders Jeff Freeman
- Condsiders J C Lawrence
- Condsiders Marc Bowden
- Condsiders Ryan Rhodes
- Condsiders Klyde Beattie
- Condsiders John Buehler
- Condsiders Klyde Beattie
- Condsiders rayzam
- Condsiders John Buehler
- (no subject) msew
- Phantasy Star online article Koster, Raph
- Phantasy Star online article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Phantasy Star online article Koster, Raph
- Phantasy Star online article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Phantasy Star online article msew
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Adam Casbarian
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Item Distribution in Areas Jim S
- Item Distribution in Areas Brian Hook
- Item Distribution in Areas Vincent Archer
- Item Distribution in Areas rayzam
- Item Distribution in Areas Dave Rickey
- Game Developer Conference Proceedings? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Game Developer Conference Proceedings? Koster, Raph
- Game Developer Conference Proceedings? Timothy Dang
- Game Developer Conference Proceedings? the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Koster, Raph
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article Koster, Raph
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article rayzam
- New Bartle article Dave Rickey
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article Dave Rickey
- New Bartle article Daniel James
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Freeman, Jeff
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Vincent Archer
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Vincent Archer
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Adam Martin
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article Jeff Freeman
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article John Buehler
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article John Buehler
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article johnbue@msn.com
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article John Buehler
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
On 7th March, 2001, John Buehler wrote:
> Instead of the guild leaving for greener pastures, whether another
> publisher's pastures or your own, provide those pastures in the
> current game environment.
I couldn't agree more.
The issue is what the nature of those pastures are. If you can't
provide it in your game, then they'll leave. I assert that one way you
could provide the pastures for some of the players is to have PD
areas. The irony is that the players aren't necessarily going to
realise that these are the pastures they need, and will go off
somewhere else.
> As I attempt to draw in casual users, I assume that they aren't
> interested in this serious a pursuit.
Sadly, I agree with you. Casual users are more interested in playing
what their friends say is a good game, or wanting to be a
wookie. Their reasons for playing are nothing to do with what we're
discussing here. We're debating the aesthetics of high art, whereas
they're playing because, well, it looks pretty.
> Except that I worry about mixing gamers and non-gamers.
Oh, I don't worry about that at all - it's essential for the kind of
game I want. What I worry about is the recipe for combining gamers and
non-gamers ot make the tastiest game, not whether they should be
ingredients at all.
>> Are you suggesting that there should be nothing in a game that's
>> taxing, in case you want to do it?
> To some players, yes.
"I refuse to play your game! I don't want to be taxed, and there are
things in your game that, although I don't have to go near them, are
nevertheless taxing. I may be tempted to try them, so I'm not going to
play".
I certainly will. They don't want a game, they want a book of line
drawings of animals and some crayons so they can colour them in.
> I'm not challenging the players, I'm just entertaining them. It's
> somewhere between a movie and the real world in the investment that
> a player has to make in order to find entertainment.
Well, as I said before, you could do this and get a stable game but it
would be ruinous in its requirements for new content.
> Ever gone hiking in the back woods and had somebody break out a cell
> phone and start talking business with somebody?
Strangely, no, I haven't.
> Similarly, if I'm patiently trying to get something done, and
> somebody comes zipping along and does it all in record time, I feel
> foolish.
But surely, if it's entertaining enough, you wouldn't care? It doesn't
bother me that when the latest Hollywood movie reaches Britain it's
already been seen by 50 million Americans. If you're going for this
kind of sit-back-and-be-entertained approach, then you wouldn't care
if someoen experienced it before you - just so long as they don't give
away the ending.
> I'm assuming that you want significant power advancement for
> characters, as with EverQuest.
For a "classic" fantasy type of world, yes.
> I'm mentioned before that this produces social stratification in the
> online community.
And I've mentioned before that it doesn't if you have PD.
> If my powerful character is killed off permanently, I'm certainly
> going to have a big ol' fat carrot waiting for me when I get back to
> my powerful state again - rejoining the people I was playing with.
Well that would be a reason why you might want to try, yes.
> And they are going to help me powergame my way back up again.
If you're a likeable person and if they don't get killed too, they may
indeed help. On the other hand, they might be moving in different
circles and only be able to offer limited assistance.
> The only way I can see breaking this chain is to make powergaming
> advancement take so long that the powerful characters will refuse to
> invest that much time.
Well another way would be for the game to be adaptable, such that
powergaming isn't possible. Sure, there may be a forest full of wolves
that you can clear out in 30 minutes for a ton of points, but if you
can't guarantee that 8 hours later the wolves will all be back then
you have to go off and do something else - something you may not have
done before. A game can automatically "modulate its shields" against
power gamers by reacting to the effects that powergamers have.
> I'm working up my first time character, experiencing the world. But
> if I'm travelling with this second time guy, he already knows all
> the answers and knows what's around the next corner.
So if you were hiking in the woods, you wouldn't WANT to go with
someone who had been in the woods before and knew what to expect? Wow!
No wonder so many people get lost on mountainsides and the authorities
have to send out rescue parties to find them.
>> Taken away? Only with PvP PKing. With PD from other sources, the
>> gains have almost invariably been lost, not taken away.
> Semantics. To me, they are taken away regardless of whether the
> software does it or another player does it. To you, it's different.
So someone comes and sets fire to your house. They've taken it away
from you. No disagreement there. You set fire to your own house. "The
world" has taken it away from you. Curse those laws of physics!
There is a BIG difference between someone screwing you up and your
screwing yourself up. If you consider this a mere point of semantics,
there is very little point in pursuing this discussion further.
> It depends on whether they're interested in experiencing the game
> with a new social group or not.
I agree. They get the choice.
> No character can master all skills, and the goal is to have many
> skills.
I'm interested to hear why you don't want characters to be able to
master all skills. I'm not saying that I think they should be able to,
but it's just you pulled that line out there and I was wondering why
you thought it. It doesn't seem to fit into your "let meeee entertain
you" model.
> the player model I'm pursuing is one of casual gameplay. Players
> regularly stay away from the game for a day or two because they
> don't feel all that compelled to keep going back.
The problem you don't really seem to have addressed is that if there's
no compelling reason for them to come back after a couple of days, why
would they ever come back?
> In that model, the loss of ability to play the game is a reminder.
In that model, the loss of ability to play is a shrug of the shoulders
and who cares, the game isn't all that great anyway, why should I
stump up ten bucks a month when I don't really miss it when it's gone?
>> As I attempted to point out, even destruction of a character isn't
>> permanent death. It is for that character. But is that
> significant to anybody?
Well the ones who scream that they won't play games where it can
happen obviously attribute it with some significance.
> It permits in-game scenarios to play out in a consistent way, and
> that's about it.
Consistency is one of the least important reasons for having PD. The
statement it makes about achievement is the primary benefit of having
it.
>> In terms of a game world populated by characters, permanent death
>> means character death, not player blocking. Yeah, but in a game
> world populated by characters, characters shouldn't know things that
> they weren't exposed to.
The game doesn't know they do. From the game's point of view, its
fiction is maintained.
> You're assuming that players will generally pursue a new route
> through the game. I'm assuming otherwise. I hope that you're
> right.
Me too <grin> .
> Same comments as above. The player's intent is the essential point.
I don't believe it is. Players have all kinds of goals when they start
playing a game, and although these shape how the character develops
they don't dictate it. The intent may give a direction, but it doesn't
guarantee a destination. I don't see any critical consequences of a
player's attempting to reproduce an earlier character unless there was
some means by which they could guarantee getting a very close
approximation (yes, this means I'm against classes and races in these
games).
> In the case of the map, I want the character's mental map to be more
> reliable and capable than the player's mental map.
Or the map they downloaded off the web?
> In a dynamic world, this will be more viable than in a static one.
> In a dynamic world, the character's perception skills and knowledge
> will permit the player to more readily interact with the world. In
> a static world, once something is known, everyone knows it and
> there's little value to having the character know it.
OK, I understand what you're saying, and yes, making the world so
fluid that players can't ever rely on their earlier knowledge is a
possibility. However, I believe that for many players this will be
VERY disconcerting, and I also believe (as usual) that this could eat
up content at phenomenal rate.
> Regardless, I don't enjoy it when other people get whacked because I
> don't enjoy it when I get whacked.
Not even if they sort of deserved it?
> Identifying with other people, be it through their success or their
> misfortune, seems to be a trait that distinguishes between those who
> enjoy PvP and those who do not.
I don't see how you reached that conclusion at all.
> But I'm glad to see that the idea of flexible characters is
> considered a good thing by somebody other than myself.
You bet. I hate the idea of "run on rails" role-playing. I want people
to be able to explore where they will, not always follow a
predetermined path.
> I can see the rut phenomenon developing, but I wouldn't go so far as
> to say that permanent character death is a good thing because it
> ends that growingly intolerable experience.
I wouldn't say it was just plain good, but I'd say it could be that PD
is a cloud that sometimes has a silver lining.
> But to get THAT, we have to figure out how to keep a large world
> large. That is, no teleportation, etc, to shrink it back down
> again.
Again, I couldn't agree more. Teleportation over long distances does
not make for great game worlds.
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