February 2001
- Rogue-Like Mud? Ron Moore
- Issues of Copyright (was Ebay bans character selling) geoffrey@yorku.ca
- brazil the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Dogma 2001 Frank Crowell
- Dogma 2001 David Turner
- FW: Article on Global Verbs & Bulk Bug Christopher Allen
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction Frank Crowell
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction Greg Underwood
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction the_logos@www.achaea.com
- bandwidth the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Is immersipresense going to make a come back? Frank Crowell
- New Scientist Article... Eric Rhea
- New Scientist Article... Alistair Milne
- New Scientist Article... rayzam
- New Scientist Article... Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- New Scientist Article... rayzam
- volunteers the_logos@www.achaea.com
- volunteers Timothy Dang
- volunteers Jon Morrow
- volunteers the_logos@www.achaea.com
- volunteers Timothy Dang
- The Aedon rule system (was: FW: Article on Global Verbs & Bulk Bug) Federico Di Gregorio
- Content is Not King (from First Monday) Bruce
- [sweng-gamedev] BYOND game development system (fwd) J C Lawrence
- [sweng-gamedev] BYOND game development system (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Medievia interview Koster, Raph
- Medievia interview Alex
- Medievia interview Madman Across the Water
- Medievia interview Koster, Raph
- Medievia interview Joe O'Connor
- Medievia interview pyrographer@comcast.net
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- FW: Article on Data Inheritance Christopher Allen
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- job opportunities Koster, Raph
- Those (in)famous EQ stories bubba@bubba.mud
- Writing articles (was: FW: Article on Data Inheritance) Bruce
- Writing articles (was: FW: Article on Data Inheritance) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] Ben Chambers
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] Warren Powell
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Room-based vs. Coordinate based[Was semi-graphical muds] J C Lawrence
- Modular Design Issues RFC Ryan Rhodes
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- Party at DundraCon Christopher Allen
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #246 - 6 msgs Dr. Cat
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- Roundtable status, changes, and future. J C Lawrence
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- Persistent Worlds Ryan Rhodes
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- MMORPGs: Pointers to System Specs? Lars Duening
- MMORPGs: Pointers to System Specs? Jake Song
- Shameless Plug. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
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- enforced roleplaying the_logos@www.achaea.com
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- Real Life Consequences Corey Crawford
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- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #249 - 28 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #249 - 28 msgs the_logos@www.achaea.com
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #249 - 28 msgs the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Job search Dr. Cat
- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Ryan Rhodes
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- Pay for Play (or Commercial Rolecall) Dave Rickey
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- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
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- A new MUD-standard John Bertoglio
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- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
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- A new MUD-standard Kevin Littlejohn
- A new MUD-standard Kwon Ekstrom
- A new MUD-standard Bruce
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- A new MUD-standard Kevin Littlejohn
- A new MUD-standard Ben Chambers
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- A new MUD-standard the_logos@www.achaea.com
- A new MUD-standard Frank Crowell
- Community (was: Semi Graphical Muds) Marian Griffith
- Defining a community Klyde Beattie
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- Defining a community Jeff Freeman
- Defining a community Dave Rickey
- Defining a community Mark Watson
- Defining a community Koster, Raph
- Defining a community Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Vincent Archer
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian Hook
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) John Buehler
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian Hook
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) John Buehler
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Travis Nixon
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Koster, Raph
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Travis Casey
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Vincent Archer
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) msew
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Brian Hook
- "Doing a dungeon" (was: Permadeath or Not?) Dave Rickey
- MUD Schools Ben Chambers
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- MUD Schools Alex
- MUD Schools David Bennett
- MUD Schools Marc Bowden
- MUD Schools Ben Chambers
- MUD Schools Michael Tresca
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Tess Lowe
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") John Buehler
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Ananda Dawnsinger
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") David Bennett
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Adam Casbarian
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") J C Lawrence
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") rayzam
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Travis Nixon
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Marian Griffith
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") John Buehler
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") Kwon Ekstrom
- Teaching ethics in MUDs (was "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG") the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Teaching ethics in MUDs Tess Lowe
- Teaching ethics in MUDs John Buehler
- Mozilla as a client (was: A new MUD-standard) Bruce
- Mozilla as a client (was: A new MUD-standard) Kwon Ekstrom
- GoPers are ants at RP picnics!... was Pay for Play(or commercial rolecall) Jon Lambert
- Condsiders Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Condsiders J C Lawrence
- Condsiders Jeff Freeman
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- Condsiders Marc Bowden
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- Condsiders rayzam
- Condsiders John Buehler
- (no subject) msew
- Phantasy Star online article Koster, Raph
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- Phantasy Star online article Koster, Raph
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- Phantasy Star online article msew
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Adam Casbarian
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Item Distribution in Areas Jim S
- Item Distribution in Areas Brian Hook
- Item Distribution in Areas Vincent Archer
- Item Distribution in Areas rayzam
- Item Distribution in Areas Jim S
<EdNote: Duplicate HTML copy removed.>
[Rayzam Wrote:]
> It becomes homogenation. You lose out on the variety of areas, you
> lose out on the variety of parties to kill the monster. Most of all,
> you lose out on the theme. Perhaps Deathknights kill each
> other. Then that's fine. But say another monster Bob is a
> Paladin. If that monster drops a sword of evil-slaying normally, but
> with this new paradigm won't when Bubba the Deathknight goes after
> Bob. So to get the Sword of evil-slaying, you have to be a good
> aligned character, killing another good-aligned character to gain
> his sword? You could modify your algorithm so a Deathknight going
> after Bob the Paladin will see Bob wielding the Sword of
> Evil-slayin, of course. But then, why would he kill him?[one
> alternative is to have Bob have the sword of good-slaying he just
> got from killing Boffo the Deathknight, and is bringing back to an
> altar to destroy it for the glory of his god].
Sure, for inherently evil or unscrupulous characters and NPCs it
really doesn't matter one way or another how this is restricted, but
for those with a cause or purpose you would want to avoid this sort of
thing as in the case of a paladin. With the mini-quest scenario,
however, this can work quite well.
> To cut the rambling which is afflicting me during a very busy day
> today:
>
> Economy:
>
> 1 monster with multiple drops:
>
> a) players will determine how to get the various drops they want.
>
> -a) if the drops are random, they'll just farm to get
> everything anyways.
If the drops are random on the NPC or in the NPC's 'treasure chest'
and the NPC is placed in a situation or place in the area such that it
is challenging for the player to get to the drop in the first place
this can cause the farming of the rewards much more difficult. In any
instance the power players will always find a way to streamline the
system to their wants and needs, but the casual player or the
role-player won't generally be as apt to worry about how the system
works but rather accept that the system is what it is and learn to
accept that system as a defined situation instead of just a set of
'rules' which can be bent.
> b) the easiest monsters for the equivalent items will be
> farmed.
This of course always needs to be kept in check with careful balancing
and testing such that no easier NPCs have equivalent items to harder
NPCs.
> c) same items gotten from easiest monster available = more
> of the items in game.
> d) 'useless' items from a monster, that fit the theme of
> the monster but not usable by the party members may find
> their way out of the game [tossed, sold to npc shops, etc].
In my earlier days of playing instead of building my guild referred to
this as "duckponding" such that anything that we did not need from a
zone on any of our guild's characters was dropped in a body of water
so that nobody got the item. This tended to keep many 'lesser' items
out of circulation from the economy but also managed to anger other
players who witnessed this happening heh. What is useless to one
character may very well be a treasured item to another, whether it be
due to the difference in class of the two characters or simply because
one item looks 'cooler' than another similar item due to naming of the
item or color. A lot of players will wear 'a kilt' on their lower
body even though it has no stats which are meaningful to their class.
Sure there may be other items they could use in that eq slot, but none
of them perhaps have the same 'style points'.
> e) if a coveted item occurs less often due to choosing from
> a larger pool of items or slanted percentages, then you'll
> see even more of the extra less-coveted items flooding the
> game, as the monster is farmed for the rarer drop.
> I doubt this will solve any economy problems. The problem it does
> solve is if a mud needs a larger variety of items, but does not
> have enough areas [i.e. you can double the items/area ratio but
> keep the time to gain items the same by having twice as many items,
> and randomly choose half to show up on any clone of the
> monster]. It's often easier and faster to code more items than more
> areas.
I would have to agree here as it is only another method to an end.
Eventually no matter how you drop items they will come into abundance,
and any items which are placed as a secondary item to a coveted item
will become overly abundant. Our MUD does not need a larger variety
of items as we already have in the game nearly 200 areas of varying
sizes and difficulties which the players can adventure in. And we add
at least one new area a week for the most part. I think a lot of what
this comes down to is that even though we wish to strive for
persistence in game world overall, what is to say Boffo the
dreadknight is always going to have his sword of good-slaying, perhaps
he was bested in a dual and lost the privilege to wield the weapon and
now is reduced to wielding a simple two-handed sword. Some variety
can be good and can give players one more reason to visit an area
numerous times. For me, as a player, the joy of knowing that you just
narrowly smited 2 fire giants warriors with your group members even
though you were ill- prepared is generally reward enough, not to
mention the stories which can be contrived through the years relating
back to your 'wondrous victory'.
In the end it seems as though the only way to really solve the problem
is to put a drain on the faucet. Some of these do exist in our game
if the proper precautions are not taken such as dragon breath melting
an item or weapons being fumbled into a lake. Item decay would at
first seem another logical choice for putting a drain on the influx of
items which come into the game. But our MUD revolves around a
high-fantasy world where magic is relatively common, and most items we
would want to get drained from the system are more or less powerful
enough enchantment-wise that it would be illogical for them to decay
overly much. Also in many ways myself and the others that work on the
game see item decay as just another 'annoyance' in many respects.
Realism in a game has its place I do believe, but when realism
overtakes playability then I definitely have a problem with that in
games I play or design. Most who play the style of game which we
develop do not wish to spend their time repairing armor, they wish to
fight battles, solve problems, follow story lines through quests, and
generally be with friends. I'll have to look back through the
archives once again and see if any other solutions for drains on
non-monetary subsets of an economy have been discussed.
Jim S
tempus@exilemud.com
exile.exilemud.com 6666
- Item Distribution in Areas Jim S
- Item Distribution in Areas Dave Rickey
- Game Developer Conference Proceedings? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
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- New Bartle article Brian Hook
- New Bartle article John Buehler
- New Bartle article Koster, Raph
- New Bartle article msew
- New Bartle article Vincent Archer
- New Bartle article shren
- New Bartle article Vincent Archer
- New Bartle article Timothy Dang
- New Bartle article Richard A. Bartle
- New Bartle article msew
- New Bartle article Koster, Raph
- New Bartle article John Buehler
- New Bartle article Koster, Raph
- New Bartle article John Buehler
- New Bartle article Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- New Bartle article Sanvean
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Brian Hook
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Travis Casey
- New Bartle article the_logos@www.achaea.com
- New Bartle article Travis Casey
- New Bartle article Travis Casey
- New Bartle article Timothy Dang
- New Bartle article Travis Casey
- New Bartle article Marc Bowden
- New Bartle article Marc Bowden
- New Bartle article Matt Mihaly
- everquest banning sarapis@www.achaea.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Adam Casbarian
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Willowreed@aol.com
- Yamauchi Puts the Industry In Its Place msew
- Item drain was Item Distribution in Areas Brian Hook
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #255 - 27 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #255 - 27 msgs John Buehler
- realism and unrealism Travis Casey
- realism and unrealism Federico Di Gregorio
- realism and unrealism Marian Griffith
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian Hook
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) S. Patrick Gallaty
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian Hook
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Brian Hook
- Damaging items was New Bartle article msew
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Brian Hook
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Travis Casey
- Damaging items was New Bartle article John Buehler
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Travis Casey
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #255 - 27 msgs Dr. Cat
- Distributed Processing John Buehler
- Distributed Processing Gaffney, Jeremy
- Distributed Processing John Buehler
- Distributed Processing Vincent Archer
- Distributed Processing Timothy Dang
- Distributed Processing Adam Martin
- Distributed Processing shren
- Distributed Processing Gaffney, Jeremy
- Quests + No Spoils (was: Interesting EQ rant) Corey Crawford
- Quests + No Spoils (was: Interesting EQ rant) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Where's The Line Drawn Kyndig
- Where's The Line Drawn KaVir@dial.pipex.com
- Where's The Line Drawn Frank Crowell
- Multiple Character Races John Buehler
- Multiple Character Races Brian Hook
- Multiple Character Races Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Multiple Character Races John Buehler
- Multiple Character Races Koster, Raph
- Multiple Character Races John Buehler
- Multiple Character Races ghovs
- Multiple Character Races the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Multiple Character Races Michael Tresca
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Zak Jarvis
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Freeman, Jeff
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jeff Freeman
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) shren
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Freeman, Jeff
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jon Lambert
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) F. Randall Farmer
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Nathan F.Yospe
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J. Coleman
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Kevin Littlejohn
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J. Coleman
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Freeman, Jeff
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian Hook
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) shren
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Kevin Littlejohn
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Kevin Littlejohn
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Adam Martin
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) holding99@mindspring.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) david.l.smith@home.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) holding99@mindspring.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Nathan F.Yospe
- Balance was Damaging items was New Bartle artic le Palacio, Ryan
- License Laws was Where's The Line Drawn Èric Rhéa
- License Laws was Where's The Line Drawn Frank Crowell
- Scripting Ben Chambers