February 2001
- Rogue-Like Mud? Ron Moore
- Issues of Copyright (was Ebay bans character selling) geoffrey@yorku.ca
- brazil the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Dogma 2001 Frank Crowell
- Dogma 2001 David Turner
- FW: Article on Global Verbs & Bulk Bug Christopher Allen
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction Frank Crowell
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction Greg Underwood
- Slightly extreme reaction to IP and auction the_logos@www.achaea.com
- bandwidth the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Is immersipresense going to make a come back? Frank Crowell
- New Scientist Article... Eric Rhea
- New Scientist Article... Alistair Milne
- New Scientist Article... rayzam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alistair Milne" <vw_krug@ntlworld.com>
To: <mud-dev@kanga.nu>
Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 7:02 AM
Subject: RE: [MUD-Dev] New Scientist Article...
> Eric Rhea said:
>> http://www.newscientist.com/features/features.jsp?id=ns22751
>> I thought that this article might provide some with inspiration
>> towards whatever project they are working on. The subject of the
>> article covers "mirror" neurons, the researchers tests, and how
>> language might be involved.
> So to distil it a bit, scientists have discovered that the same
> neurons we use for doing stuff, can also change the subject from
> 'self' to 'other' and then simulate stuff instead.
Actually, it's a bit more complicated and a bit less complicated than
that :) In the exact case:
Lift a stick from the table. - a neuron fires.
Watch someone life a stick from the table with the same arm motion -
same neuron fires.
Does this neuron code lifting a stick? Well it fires to some other
similar movements, but not all movements. Point being that half the
brain was thought to be 'motor' or related to controlling
movements. That being said, there are lots of areas outside of the
small strip known as the primary motor cortex, that fire to a variety
of movement-related activity, sometimes before, sometimes
during. Bottom line, there's a lot going on, and it's labelled vaguely
as 'movement', but we don't know how exactly we generate complicated
movements like that.
Simulate: mirror neurons are an amazingly interesting phenomenon. Most
of the neurons 'motor' neurons are dependent on own body
movements. Having it fire when the monkey sees someone make a motion,
that if he did the same motion, would also make it fire, is amazing!
[especially if you can parse that sentence]. It's quite
surprising. There's lots of speculation over what it could do, but no
evidence. We cannot tell what the monkey is thinking, what is going
on, or even really what the neuron is doing. But that doesn't hamper
models, since the neuron shows that the brain is capable of making
this connection, that is mirroring others movements and our
own. That's the reward here.
Other interesting phenomena:
The frontal 'motor' area that controls eye movements can also
control your attention without moving your eyes.
One of the motor areas for arm movements is affected by solving
mazes. Starting point is the center of the maze. There is an exit
on all 4 sides. Solve the maze to see which exit is the real
one. If the neuron prefers arm movements to the right: if the exit
is on the right, the neuron fires more. If the exit is on the
left, it fires less. And that's without moving the arm at all.
Other arm-related neurons fire when objects are near the arm.
Interestingly, these same neurons extend their properties along
the length of tools that the monkey is familiar with using.
Thus, these 'motor' areas are becoming noted for being involved in a
variety of cognitive processes. Surprising in each phenomenon. But not
surprising, if the alternative is that a large portion of our brain is
used to control movements, but at the same time, many creatures with
much smaller brains can control the same or even more movements than
we can.
Mirror neurons could be used for rehearsing. They could be used for
learning. They could be related to imagination [is the monkey
imagining picking up the peanut to eat himself]. They could be part
of the theory of mind [knowing what emotions/thoughts others are
feeling based on their actions and how you'd feel doing the same
actions].
The activity could be getting ready to do the same action.
Social/group/herd animals. One senses or learns about danger, and
starts escaping. See a confederate do that, and you crank up the
neurons that would do the same thing, so you're more prepared to do
the same thing. Being more prepared neuronally means that you can
start that action quicker. And that could save you from a predator, or
other danger.
> Should we use this concept in AI? Absolutely. Can we do it yet? Not
> until the field of cognitive modelling matures a bit.
I'm not sure mirror neurons are useful in AI. It could be another way
of increasing skills. Instead of skill-use, skill-watch. But that
leads to all sorts of issues. Is the smith who idles around watching
another smith practice smithing [and gaining ability out of
skill-use], going to gain smithing ability, and if so, at what rate?
I don't know how else it would be useful in game AI however, if you
could give expand on that, I'd love to hear it.
> PS: for more on cognitive modelling as applied to games, check out
> http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1568811039/o/qid1546964/sr=8-1/ref=aps_sr_b_1_1/107-0617214-9198949
Is the book any good? Opinions on it?
Rayzam - New Scientist Article... Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- New Scientist Article... rayzam
- New Scientist Article... rayzam
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- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #249 - 28 msgs Dr. Cat
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- Fallen Age (was Shameless Plug) SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Adam Casbarian
- Myn ynd Wymyn (was Teaching ethics in MUDs) Willowreed@aol.com
- Yamauchi Puts the Industry In Its Place msew
- Item drain was Item Distribution in Areas Brian Hook
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #255 - 27 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #255 - 27 msgs John Buehler
- realism and unrealism Travis Casey
- realism and unrealism Federico Di Gregorio
- realism and unrealism Marian Griffith
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian Hook
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) S. Patrick Gallaty
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian Hook
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Limiting rewards was Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Brian Hook
- Damaging items was New Bartle article msew
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Brian Hook
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Travis Casey
- Damaging items was New Bartle article John Buehler
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Travis Casey
- Damaging items was New Bartle article Marian Griffith
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #255 - 27 msgs Dr. Cat
- Distributed Processing John Buehler
- Distributed Processing Gaffney, Jeremy
- Distributed Processing John Buehler
- Distributed Processing Vincent Archer
- Distributed Processing Timothy Dang
- Distributed Processing Adam Martin
- Distributed Processing shren
- Distributed Processing Gaffney, Jeremy
- Quests + No Spoils (was: Interesting EQ rant) Corey Crawford
- Quests + No Spoils (was: Interesting EQ rant) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Where's The Line Drawn Kyndig
- Where's The Line Drawn KaVir@dial.pipex.com
- Where's The Line Drawn Frank Crowell
- Multiple Character Races John Buehler
- Multiple Character Races Brian Hook
- Multiple Character Races Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Multiple Character Races John Buehler
- Multiple Character Races Koster, Raph
- Multiple Character Races John Buehler
- Multiple Character Races ghovs
- Multiple Character Races the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Multiple Character Races Michael Tresca
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Zak Jarvis
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Freeman, Jeff
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jeff Freeman
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) shren
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Freeman, Jeff
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jon Lambert
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) F. Randall Farmer
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Nathan F.Yospe
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J. Coleman
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Kevin Littlejohn
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J. Coleman
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Freeman, Jeff
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian Hook
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matt Mihaly
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) shren
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Kevin Littlejohn
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Kevin Littlejohn
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Adam Martin
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) holding99@mindspring.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) david.l.smith@home.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) holding99@mindspring.com
- FW: Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Nathan F.Yospe
- Balance was Damaging items was New Bartle artic le Palacio, Ryan
- License Laws was Where's The Line Drawn Èric Rhéa
- License Laws was Where's The Line Drawn Frank Crowell
- Scripting Ben Chambers