February 2000
- datagram protocol design theory? (Question about multithreaded servers) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Library error J C Lawrence
- Semi-OT: Linux support in commercial MUDs? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- From the Apache Referrer logs J C Lawrence
- From the Apache Referrer logs Kris Van Hees
- good muds for ai programming? Robert Zubek
- good muds for ai programming? J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling Phillip Lenhardt
- Event Scheduling J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Event Scheduling J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling Phillip Lenhardt
- Event Scheduling J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Event Scheduling Cynbe ru Taren
- Event Scheduling Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Event Scheduling Cynbe ru Taren
- Event Scheduling Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Event Scheduling Miroslav Silovic
- Event Scheduling Jp Calderone
- Event Scheduling Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Event Scheduling Miroslav Silovic
- Event Scheduling J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling Cynbe ru Taren
- Event Scheduling Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- IO Speed Suggestions Christopher Kohnert
- IO Speed Suggestions J C Lawrence
- Couple of articles Koster, Raph
- Couple of articles Dr Richard A. Bartle
- OT: Soliciting advice from Canadians Alex Oren
- MUD Specific Building pages MichelleThompson
- MUD Specific Building pages J C Lawrence
- Embedding Python icecube@ihug.co.nz
- Embedding Python icecube@ihug.co.nz
- Embedding Python J C Lawrence
- Embedding Python Todd McKimmey
- Embedding Python Oliver Jowett
- Embedding Python Todd McKimmey
- ADMIN: List post rejections J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Kevin Littlejohn
- distributed objects Vijay Weasel Prabhakar
- distributed objects Brandon J. Rickman
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Koster, Raph
- distributed objects Vijay Weasel Prabhakar
- distributed objects David Bennett
- distributed objects Phillip Lenhardt
- distributed objects cjones@one.net
- distributed objects F. Randall Farmer
- distributed objects Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- distributed objects Kevin Littlejohn
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Gary Whitten
- distributed objects Balthazaar
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- distributed objects Eli Stevens {Grey}
- distributed objects Jon A. Lambert
- distributed objects Charles Hughes
- distributed objects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- distributed objects Charles Hughes
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Charles Hughes
- distributed objects Charles Hughes
- distributed objects Laurent Bossavit
- distributed objects Kevin Littlejohn
- distributed objects markm@caplet.com
- distributed objects KevinL
- Distributed Objects Justin Rogers
- Security J C Lawrence
- commercial muds and cable TV (was code base inquiry ) Sellers, Michael
- commercial muds and cable TV (was code base inquiry ) Matthew Mihaly
- commercial muds and cable TV (was code base inq uiry ) Sellers, Michael
- commercial muds and cable TV (was code base inq uiry ) Matthew Mihaly
- business models Matthew Mihaly
- business models Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Dave Rickey
- a shrinking pool of players? Johan J Ingles-le Nobel
- a shrinking pool of players? Matthew Mihaly
- a shrinking pool of players? Sellers, Michael
- a shrinking pool of players? Bryce Harrington
- a shrinking pool of players? Travis S. Casey
- a shrinking pool of players? PartyG2816@aol.com
- a shrinking pool of players? J C Lawrence
- a shrinking pool of players? Sellers, Michael
- a shrinking pool of players? Sellers, Michael
- a shrinking pool of players? PartyG2816@aol.com
- a shrinking pool of players? Ryan P.
- a shrinking pool of players? J C Lawrence
- a shrinking pool of players? Koster, Raph
- a shrinking pool of players? Matthew Mihaly
- a shrinking pool of players? Koster, Raph
- a shrinking pool of players? Chris Turner
- a shrinking pool of players? Matthew Mihaly
- a shrinking pool of players? Chris Turner
- a shrinking pool of players? Draymoor
- a shrinking pool of players? Koster, Raph
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Michael Hohensee
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Ted Milker
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications David Bennett
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Ted Milker
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications John Bertoglio
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Justin Rogers
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Eli Stevens {Grey}
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications John Bertoglio
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Koster, Raph
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Lo, Kam
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Justin Rogers
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Joel Dillon
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Justin Rogers
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bryce Harrington
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bruce
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bryce Harrington
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bruce
- Next gen MUD wishlist J C Lawrence
- Next gen MUD wishlist Chris Jones
- Next gen MUD wishlist adam@treyarch.com
- Next gen MUD wishlist Sellers, Michael
- Next gen MUD wishlist adam@treyarch.com
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bruce
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bryce Harrington
- Codebase Ideas punitac@prodigy.net
- Codebase Ideas Bryce Harrington
- Codebase Ideas Aaron Mitchell
- OT: Money as motivator (was code base inquiry ) J C Lawrence
- OT: Money as motivator (was code base inquiry ) Matthew Mihaly
- Guide Applicant : Player Ratio Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Guide Applicant : Player Ratio Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #286 - 13 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #286 - 13 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #286 - 13 msgs Koster, Raph
- voice vs. text Matthew Mihaly
- voice vs. text Justin Rogers
- voice vs. text John Bertoglio
- voice vs. text Lovecraft
- voice vs. text Lo, Kam
- voice vs. text Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Client side prediction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Client side prediction Koster, Raph
- Client side prediction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Client side prediction Justin Rogers
- Client side prediction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Client side prediction Koster, Raph
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ola Fosheim Grøstad [mailto:olag@ifi.uio.no]
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2000 2:58 PM
> To: mud-dev@kanga.nu
> Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Client side prediction
>
>
> "Koster, Raph" wrote:
> > Ola wrote:
> > > Are you by "dead reckoning" suggesting implementing all
> the physics in
> > > the client? I've spent too much time thinking about this, and I've
> > > reached the conclusion that the problems that are
> associated with this
> > > approach are too many and the benefits are too few.
> >
> > You should look at what games like Air Warrior and Warbirds
> do. There's
> > well-known solutions out there for minimizing bandwidth and
> using dead
> > reckoning. The issues you describe mostly don't apply...
>
> You know, chosing open-space examples are not a very good
> idea when you
> try to short-circuit a discussion. Come with some good examples where
> objects bounce, are nearby and you have approx one second lag. Then
> address the issues one by one.
I certainly did not mean to short-circuit the discussion. All the first
person shooters have to deal with this situation. They generally don't
handle real well up to 1 second of lag though--actually, I don't know of
anything that does handle that really well, it's always noticeable. :) FPSes
use simialr sorts of approaches to what I was describing for the flight sim
online games (which handle furballs of several dozen planes in close
proximity btw--and Air Warrior first launched with this sort of capability a
dozen years ago, when modems were much punier). Microsoft's Allegiance is
another example.
It is not a matter of implementing all the physics in the client. You
selectively implement the aspects that are critical to having seamless
presentation for YOUR client.
> Yes, you can obviously cripple your design so much that you
> only have to
> send one message every ten seconds. If that is what you want?
No, not at all. But for example, for something that is far away, you may
want to give this level of update and let the client dead reckon in between,
until it vectors closer and necessitates faster updates.
> > There's a ton of stuff that you don't need to have be
> synched except in
> > terms of shared experience. It doesn't matter if the two
> observers are both
> > in exact synch as long as both actually get to see the event.
>
> That really depends. Many gameplayers in the 80's were pissed off
> because collision detection wasn't pixel-perfect... Again, I want
> examples where players don't get annoyed.
There's very few games that do collision on a per poly basis. They almost
all use bounding boxes, usually fairly inaccurate ones. Players are fairly
forgiving about that sort of thing, is my experience.
Let me give you an example. Let's say that I am a bystander watching Bubba
slice Buffy in two. I may not have Bubba's correct transform because it's
not as high priority an event, so Bubba is facing away when it happens. But
I DO have the packet that says that Buffy was chopped in half because that
is high priority. So I might as well spin Bubba around and display the chop.
It won't look like it did on another bystander's client, who may have had
all the info in the case, but it's good enough. We both saw Buffy get
chopped in half. Her corpse may have fallen at different angles on the
ground, too. We're not gonna compare notes most likely, so who cares?
To give a real-world example: EQ does fairly simple dead reckoning on the
client for its avatar motions. As a result, when things get laggy, other
people "pop" all over the place--guy you thought was running NW turns out to
have changed direction during lag and is now running NNW, to he teleports
sideways 20 feet--as the client resynchs. Players LIKE it a lot more than
having UO's situation where the client's display makes significant more
effort to be accurate and therefore lags when insufficient info is
available--because it means that *their experience* is smooth. They care
more about smoothness than accuracy.
-Raph - Client side prediction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamic help files, was code base inquiry Richard Woolcock
- OpenSource licenses for game rules? J C Lawrence
- To all the devoted! (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Newbies Johan J Ingles-le Nobel
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #288 - 9 msgs Dr. Cat
- (fwd) Commercial-use Restrictions on Code Bases (was: help me find 100% free graphical mud) J C Lawrence
- (fwd) ADMIN: "A Classification Of Muds" [was 'In defence of stock muds...'] J C Lawrence
- Distribution Geir Harald Hansen
- player persistence Matthew Mihaly
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Derek Snider
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 J C Lawrence
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Justin Lockshaw
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Christopher Allen
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Matthew Mihaly
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Joe Andrieu
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Kristen L. Koster
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Richard A. Bartle
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Bruce
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 David Bennett
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 J C Lawrence
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 J C Lawrence
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 J C Lawrence
- [Off-topic] AAAI symposium (was: GDC-2000) Robert Zubek
- MSP Richard Ross
- Privateer-style mu*? Bobby Bailey
- Minimum community sizes Dan Root
- Minimum community sizes Koster, Raph
- Minimum community sizes Dan Root
- Minimum community sizes adam@treyarch.com
- Minimum community sizes Matthew Mihaly
- Minimum community sizes David Bennett
- Minimum community sizes Matthew Mihaly
- Pike codebase Daniel Podlejski
- chil@gate.net Joel Kelso