February 2000
- datagram protocol design theory? (Question about multithreaded servers) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Library error J C Lawrence
- Semi-OT: Linux support in commercial MUDs? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- From the Apache Referrer logs J C Lawrence
- From the Apache Referrer logs Kris Van Hees
- good muds for ai programming? Robert Zubek
- good muds for ai programming? J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling Phillip Lenhardt
- Event Scheduling J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- Event Scheduling J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling Phillip Lenhardt
- Event Scheduling J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Event Scheduling Cynbe ru Taren
- Event Scheduling Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Event Scheduling Cynbe ru Taren
- Event Scheduling Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Event Scheduling Miroslav Silovic
- Event Scheduling Jp Calderone
- Event Scheduling Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Event Scheduling Miroslav Silovic
- Event Scheduling J C Lawrence
- Event Scheduling Cynbe ru Taren
- Event Scheduling Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- IO Speed Suggestions Christopher Kohnert
- IO Speed Suggestions J C Lawrence
- Couple of articles Koster, Raph
- Couple of articles Dr Richard A. Bartle
- OT: Soliciting advice from Canadians Alex Oren
- MUD Specific Building pages MichelleThompson
- MUD Specific Building pages J C Lawrence
- Embedding Python icecube@ihug.co.nz
- Embedding Python icecube@ihug.co.nz
- Embedding Python J C Lawrence
- Embedding Python Todd McKimmey
- Embedding Python Oliver Jowett
- Embedding Python Todd McKimmey
- ADMIN: List post rejections J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Kevin Littlejohn
- distributed objects Vijay Weasel Prabhakar
- distributed objects Brandon J. Rickman
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Koster, Raph
- distributed objects Vijay Weasel Prabhakar
- distributed objects David Bennett
- distributed objects Phillip Lenhardt
- distributed objects cjones@one.net
- distributed objects F. Randall Farmer
- distributed objects Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- distributed objects Kevin Littlejohn
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Gary Whitten
- distributed objects Balthazaar
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- distributed objects Eli Stevens {Grey}
- distributed objects Jon A. Lambert
- distributed objects Charles Hughes
- distributed objects Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- distributed objects Charles Hughes
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects J C Lawrence
- distributed objects Charles Hughes
- distributed objects Charles Hughes
- distributed objects Laurent Bossavit
- distributed objects Kevin Littlejohn
- distributed objects markm@caplet.com
- distributed objects KevinL
- Distributed Objects Justin Rogers
- Security J C Lawrence
- commercial muds and cable TV (was code base inquiry ) Sellers, Michael
- commercial muds and cable TV (was code base inquiry ) Matthew Mihaly
- commercial muds and cable TV (was code base inq uiry ) Sellers, Michael
- commercial muds and cable TV (was code base inq uiry ) Matthew Mihaly
- business models Matthew Mihaly
- business models Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Dave Rickey
- a shrinking pool of players? Johan J Ingles-le Nobel
- a shrinking pool of players? Matthew Mihaly
- a shrinking pool of players? Sellers, Michael
- a shrinking pool of players? Bryce Harrington
- a shrinking pool of players? Travis S. Casey
- a shrinking pool of players? PartyG2816@aol.com
- a shrinking pool of players? J C Lawrence
- a shrinking pool of players? Sellers, Michael
- a shrinking pool of players? Sellers, Michael
- a shrinking pool of players? PartyG2816@aol.com
- a shrinking pool of players? Ryan P.
- a shrinking pool of players? J C Lawrence
- a shrinking pool of players? Koster, Raph
- a shrinking pool of players? Matthew Mihaly
- a shrinking pool of players? Koster, Raph
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ryan P. [mailto:ixiterra@earthlink.net]
> Sent: Tuesday, February 15, 2000 11:23 PM
> To: mud-dev@kanga.nu
> Subject: Re: [MUD-DEV] a shrinking pool of players?
> I've played EQ before, and I would say roughly 80% of those
> people have no
> clue what a text-based mud is.
I would say that similar percentages of stock Diku mudders have no idea what
a MOO is. I am not sure what this is supposed to demonstrate.
> EQ is a commercialized video game in
> every sense of the word. It is akin to UT and Q3A except for
> the fact that it
> focuses more on a roleplaying aspect rather than kill, kill, kill.
They are competitors of mine so I make a policy not to talk too much about
their game design, but I will say that I find EQ to be extremely like an
advanced Diku mud, with a wide selection of races, classes, equipment, and
areas.
Now, I see "commercialized" to be completely independent of the nature of
the game. You can commercialize any sort of game. I assure you that the fact
that EQ is commercial has not affected its basic mudness in any way.
> I wouldn't even consider EQ/UO part of the mudding community.
An interesting assertion. Whyever not?
If you're getting caught up in the graphical interface, don't. To do so is
to ignore BSX muds, WOODS/ChibaMOO, and the various overhead ASCII text map
muds, none of which were commercial. Graphical presentation has nothing to
do with whether or not something is a mud.
If you are talking features and interesting aspects of game design, I've
noted before that I believe more boundaries are being pushed in the
commercial arena right now than in the hobbyist arena (measured by actual
working code that does new things). I'd wager that many of the most
cutting-edge ideas talked about on this list will first see public unveiling
on a commercial system, not a hobbyist one that is open to the public.
If you are talking in terms of whether or not the two playerbases form a
coherent single group, then I'd agree with you--but I'd disagree that it is
because the games cater to completely different audiences. I have seen large
amounts of overlap. I'd also say that I have seen far more people moving
from text muds to graphical ones than the other way around. This may be
because of where I am sitting, of course. (BTW, I think JCL's estimate of
the current commercial mud population to be low).
Of course, from a design perspective, they are extraordinarily similar,
except that having to be a triple-A computer game title and a profitable
service business as well as a successful mud imposes tougher challenges on
the developers. Certainly, though, we're part of the same community on this
list, at any rate. :)
> Anyone who
> has started on one of those games then attempts to switch to
> a text-based
> mud will not be a happy camper.
I would question this as well. I know many people who have gone one way or
the other, or still play both.
> It's just like trying to get
> heavy video game
> players to play AD&D, it is very difficult unless they have a
> modicum of
> intelligence and a bit of creativity.
You could almost boil down what you are saying to, "emote doesn't work as
well on a graphical system." Which is true. It only works as well as it does
on text muds, not up to its full potential. Remember, commercial graphical
muds offer a superset of text mud commands in that your old favorites are
all still there. EQ offers just about every Diku command known to man. It
just also happens to have a very nice 3d presentation.
Emote is about the only thing that brings text muds closer to AD&D (and btw,
the reference to AD&D alo indicates me to me a narrow view of text mudding).
And on what this list terms "goal-oriented" muds, emote isn't exactly a core
command.
> Text muds are one step
> between AD&D
> and video games. EQ/UO are video games, plain and simple.
Fighting words, my friend. I'll leave it to other posters to decide whether
or not UO, for example (but I could just as easily pick one of the others)
is a more simplistic mud than your average (or even moderately customized)
text mud.
Now, if they are capable of being played that way in order to attract more
people... does that make them less a mud? Well, no. It arguably makes them a
better mud (for that specific purpose).
None will argue the expressiveness of text more vehemently than I. And I
would agree that the interface causes players to self-select. But to argue
that the guy on Arctic and the guy on EQ aren't engaging in basically the
same sorts of activities is to miss the forest for the trees.
-Raph - a shrinking pool of players? Chris Turner
- a shrinking pool of players? Matthew Mihaly
- a shrinking pool of players? Chris Turner
- a shrinking pool of players? Draymoor
- a shrinking pool of players? Koster, Raph
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Michael Hohensee
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Ted Milker
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications David Bennett
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Ted Milker
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications John Bertoglio
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Justin Rogers
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Eli Stevens {Grey}
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications John Bertoglio
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Koster, Raph
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Lo, Kam
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Justin Rogers
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Joel Dillon
- The Endeavour Map and MUD Applications Justin Rogers
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bryce Harrington
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bruce
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bryce Harrington
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bruce
- Next gen MUD wishlist J C Lawrence
- Next gen MUD wishlist Chris Jones
- Next gen MUD wishlist adam@treyarch.com
- Next gen MUD wishlist Sellers, Michael
- Next gen MUD wishlist adam@treyarch.com
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bruce
- Next gen MUD wishlist Bryce Harrington
- Codebase Ideas punitac@prodigy.net
- Codebase Ideas Bryce Harrington
- Codebase Ideas Aaron Mitchell
- OT: Money as motivator (was code base inquiry ) J C Lawrence
- OT: Money as motivator (was code base inquiry ) Matthew Mihaly
- Guide Applicant : Player Ratio Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Guide Applicant : Player Ratio Matthew Mihaly
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #286 - 13 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #286 - 13 msgs Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #286 - 13 msgs Koster, Raph
- voice vs. text Matthew Mihaly
- voice vs. text Justin Rogers
- voice vs. text John Bertoglio
- voice vs. text Lovecraft
- voice vs. text Lo, Kam
- voice vs. text Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Client side prediction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Client side prediction Koster, Raph
- Client side prediction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Client side prediction Justin Rogers
- Client side prediction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Client side prediction Koster, Raph
- Client side prediction Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Dynamic help files, was code base inquiry Richard Woolcock
- OpenSource licenses for game rules? J C Lawrence
- To all the devoted! (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Newbies Johan J Ingles-le Nobel
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #288 - 9 msgs Dr. Cat
- (fwd) Commercial-use Restrictions on Code Bases (was: help me find 100% free graphical mud) J C Lawrence
- (fwd) ADMIN: "A Classification Of Muds" [was 'In defence of stock muds...'] J C Lawrence
- Distribution Geir Harald Hansen
- player persistence Matthew Mihaly
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Derek Snider
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 J C Lawrence
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Justin Lockshaw
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Christopher Allen
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Matthew Mihaly
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Joe Andrieu
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Kristen L. Koster
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Richard A. Bartle
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 Bruce
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 David Bennett
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 J C Lawrence
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 J C Lawrence
- [Off-topic] GDC-2000 J C Lawrence
- [Off-topic] AAAI symposium (was: GDC-2000) Robert Zubek
- MSP Richard Ross
- Privateer-style mu*? Bobby Bailey
- Minimum community sizes Dan Root
- Minimum community sizes Koster, Raph
- Minimum community sizes Dan Root
- Minimum community sizes adam@treyarch.com
- Minimum community sizes Matthew Mihaly
- Minimum community sizes David Bennett
- Minimum community sizes Matthew Mihaly
- Pike codebase Daniel Podlejski
- chil@gate.net Joel Kelso