February 1999
- client images Chris Gray
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers in general. Ben Greear
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers in general. Adam Wiggins
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers in general. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers in general. Chris Gray
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers in general. Chris Gray
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers in general. T. Alexander Popiel
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers in general. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers in general. Richard Woolcock
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers in general. Marc Hernandez
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers i Chris Gray
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers i Jon A. Lambert
- Question on c++ switch optimization, and parsers i Chris Gray
- optimizing code diablo@best.com
- optimizing code Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- optimizing code Chris Gray
- code profiling Chris Gray
- World-file parsing and RTTI? The Arrow
- World-file parsing and RTTI? Mark Gritter
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- pet peeves Marc Bowden
- pet peeves Richard Woolcock
- pet peeves Koster, Raph
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- pet peeves Kristen Koster
- pet peeves Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- pet peeves Adam Wiggins
- pet peeves Wes Connell
- pet peeves J C Lawrence
- pet peeves Matthew Mihaly
- pet peeves Ling
- pet peeves Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- pet peeves Matthew Mihaly
- pet peeves Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- pet peeves Matthew Mihaly
- pet peeves David Bennett
- pet peeves Robert Woods
- pet peeves Wes Connell
- pet peeves Travis S. Casey
- pet peeves Matthew Mihaly
- pet peeves Neerenberg, AaronX
- pet peeves greg
- pet peeves Richard Woolcock
- pet peeves J C Lawrence
On Fri, 19 Feb 1999 10:30:54 -0600 (CST)
Wes Connell<wconnell@eden.com> wrote:
> How instead of an actual breaking point for permadeath just allow a
> certain amount of lives. Sorta like a video game. I've never seen
> that imp'd into a mud before. When you are a newbie you recieve
> three lives. After they are all used up you die. Quests could be
> used to give extra lives and such.
I've heard of this being done, and have read of cases here, but have
never played on such a system. I suspect abuse would be a signigicant
problem.
> The problem that I see with a permadeath breaking point is that you
> would hardly ever see any characters over level XX.
On the permadeath games I've played this has not been the case.
Players with any significant advancement however were extremely
protective of and careful with their characters however. The term
"paranoid" comes to mind.
Low level players have little to lose. High level players have
everything to lose and know very exactly how easy it is to lose. This
breeds a certain caution and distrust ("Will they do to me what I did
when I was in their place?"). I don't see this as necessarily a bad
thing, tho I expect it will help that I'm working hard to make
reactive defence far more effective than attack.
Certainly permadeath actively discourages socialisation unless there
are other externally enforced safety measures (eg sanctums). I wonder
what the impact of opt-in pre-defined trust systems would be? Say
allowing something like:
> l
Bubba is here.
Bubba says, "Okay, I'll trust you. Let's make a peace treaty."
> say Okay.
Bubba has declared a peace treaty with you.
Do you want to match it? Until you do Bubba can still attack you.
>> yes
You have declared a peace treaty with Bubba. You are now physically
incapable of directly attacking each other.
...later...
> attack bubba
You can't attack bubba, you have a peace treaty with him.
...later...
Bubba has broken his peace treaty with you. He may attack you at
any time!
The treaty structure really does almost nothing but impose some
mechanics and auto-warning to the other side.
> On non-permadeath muds that allow pkilling only after a certain
> level XX, the newbies coming out of the saftey get a very rude
> awakening when they a slaughtered like the fresh meat they are.
I'm still wondering why this doesn't take place on the permadeath
games I've played. I have a suspicion it was because most players
effectively played solo most of the time, or only with other players
they knew personally or had other reasons to explicitly trust.
Certainly the player density was rarely high (three players in a room
was a crowd, four was a mob, five or more and you were effectively
guaranteed that nobody would touch anybody or else they'd instantly
get the lot of them as immediate enemies).
> It might allow for a 'smoother' transition if they could still die
> as a newbie, but just give them a buffer. =]
I'm fond of defining three types of death:
1) You failed to survive (eg PK'ed, killed by an NPC).
2) The game killed you for doing something stupid (eg you walked off
the edge of a cliff).
3) The game killed you for doing something that was likely not an
error or stupidity on your part (eg failed a dexterity check and
plummeted from a rope bridge).
I like to treat them separately.
#1 I see as the normal permadeath style: character deleted with no
hope or chance of resurrection.
#2 gives a low probability chance of resurrection, but it is
expensive, and time consuming.
#3 Either just resets the character, or places them behind a problem
they must solve to re-enter the game.
Given my separation of bodies and characters, and the fact that
characters may simultaneously control multiple bodies, much of this
doesn't map well for me. Death only becomes a concern for me when a
character loses ownership of all its bodies and retains no partial
ownership any bodies either. This is a little different from the
chance encounter killing the 2,000 hour character. On the level of
wht can be done to prevent it, it requires active carelessness to
really die.
As such I expect most deaths to be accidental -- somebody forgot how
close they were to having no reserve bodies and got caught out. That
given, running more than one body is a pain, so there's an active and
motivating force to minimise the number of bodies any one character
controls. Even running a spare "sleeper" body that just exists to
ensure that you can't be killed outright is a drag.
Play testing will reveal what really happens.
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw@kanga.nu
----------(*) Internet: coder@kanga.nu
...Honorary Member of Clan McFud -- Teamer's Avenging Monolith... - pet peeves Martin Keegan
- pet peeves Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- pet peeves J C Lawrence
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Brandon A Downey
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Darren Henderson
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Darren Henderson
- pet peeves Steve Houchard
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Darren Henderson
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Steve Houchard
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Richard Woolcock
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Richard Woolcock
- pet peeves Apocalypse
- pet peeves Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Adam Wiggins
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Adam Wiggins
- pet peeves diablo@best.com
- pet peeves Mik Clarke
- pet peeves Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- pet peeves Travis S. Casey
- pet peeves Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- pet peeves Benjamin D. Wiechel
- pet peeves Marc Bowden
- pet peeves Matthew Mihaly
- pet peeves Mik Clarke
- pet peeves Benjamin D. Wiechel
- pet peeves Matthew Mihaly
- pet peeves Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- pet peeves Marc Bowden
- pet peeves Matthew Mihaly
- pet peeves David Bennett
- pet peeves David Bennett
- pet peeves Petri Virkkula
- pet peeves J C Lawrence
- Horror Themed Muds [was CthulhuMud Driver 6] Christopher Allen
- Horror Themed Muds [was CthulhuMud Driver 6] Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Horror Themed Muds [was CthulhuMud Driver 6] Mik Clarke
- CthulhuMud Driver 6 Mik Clarke
- CthulhuMud Driver 6 J C Lawrence
- Mathengine Ling
- Mathengine Apocalypse
- Website update Koster, Raph
- Influential muds Koster, Raph
- Influential muds Dan Shiovitz
- Influential muds Adam Wiggins
- Influential muds Sunny Gulati
- Influential muds diablo@best.com
- Influential muds Juha Lindfors
- Influential muds Brandon J. Rickman
- Influential muds Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Influential muds Andy Cink
- Influential muds J C Lawrence
- Influential muds Dr. Cat
- Influential muds Jay Carlson
- Influential muds Mik Clarke
- Influential muds Richard Woolcock
- Influential muds Koster, Raph
- Influential muds Mik Clarke
- Influential muds Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Influential muds Dan Root
- Influential muds Benjamin D. Wiechel
- State of the art? Andy Cink
- State of the art? diablo@best.com
- State of the art? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- State of the art? ##Make Nylander
- State of the art? diablo@best.com
- State of the art? Martin Keegan
- State of the art? David Bennett
- State of the art? Martin Keegan
- State of the art? Andy Cink
- State of the art? J C Lawrence
- State of the art? David Bennett
- State of the art? Matthew Mihaly
- State of the art? Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- State of the art? Matthew Mihaly
- State of the art? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- State of the art? Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- State of the art? J C Lawrence
- State of the art? Matthew Mihaly
- State of the art? Mik Clarke
- State of the art? J C Lawrence
- The Terrorist Class Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The Terrorist Class Mik Clarke
- Welcome To "MUD-Dev"! mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu
- IMPORTANT ADMIN: New list setup requires your attention J C Lawrence
- ADMIN: URL change J C Lawrence
- PermaDeath (was pet peeves) Marc Hernandez
- ScryMUD 1.8.7 released. Ben Greear
- PermaDeath Sayeed
- PermaDeath Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- PermaDeath Sayeed
- roleplaying and immersion (was: PermaDeath) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Roleplaying and Immersion (was: PermaDeath) Sayeed
- Roleplaying and Immersion (was: PermaDeath) Adam Wiggins
- Roleplaying and Immersion (was: PermaDeath) J C Lawrence
- Roleplaying and Immersion (was: PermaDeath) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- WEB: VR-stuff Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- WEB: VR-stuff J C Lawrence
- WEB: VR-stuff Mik Clarke
- WEB: VR-stuff Marian Griffith
- WEB: VR-stuff J C Lawrence
- ADMIN: The list archives are now online and fully searchable J C Lawrence
- Theories was pet peeves Wes Connell