May 2001
- Clean Code (was:TECH: reliablity) Dave Rickey
- neat game Matt Mihaly
- neat game Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas Lynx
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Ryan P.
- Logical MUD Areas Elia Morling
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas Koster, Raph
- Logical MUD Areas Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas Marian Griffith
- Logical MUD Areas Phillip Lenhardt
- Logical MUD Areas Michael Tresca
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Logical MUD Areas Matt Mihaly
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Eli Stevens
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas S. Patrick Gallaty
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Jon Lambert
- Logical MUD Areas Matt Mihaly
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Ryan P.
- Logical MUD Areas Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Logical MUD Areas Derek Licciardi
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas Jon Lambert
- Logical MUD Areas Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Michael Stoddart
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Logical MUD Areas Mathue Moyer
- Logical MUD Areas Kwon Ekstrom
- Logical MUD Areas Chuk Radder
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Chuk Radder
- Logical MUD Areas Triem, Brad
- Logical MUD Areas shren
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas Brian Hook
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Brian Hook
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Ryan P.
- Logical MUD Areas Eli Stevens
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas shren
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Derek Licciardi
- Logical MUD Areas Andrew McLaren
- Logical MUD Areas Hulbert, Leland
- Logical MUD Areas Malcolm Tester
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Koster, Raph
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Matt Mihaly
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Richard A. Bartle
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Koster, Raph
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Matt Mihaly
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Koster, Raph
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Derek Licciardi
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Luke Carruthers
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Dave Rickey
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Dave Rickey
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) John Buehler
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] S. Patrick Gallaty
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] John Buehler
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Martin Burke
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Vincent Archer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game des igners] Koster, Raph
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Madman Across the Water
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Travis Nixon
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Vincent Archer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Vincent Archer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] asnellin@san.rr.com
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Dave Rickey
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Eli Stevens
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game des igners] Koster, Raph
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Frank Crowell
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Baron, Jonathan
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Travis Nixon
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle shren
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Adam Martin
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Jon Lambert
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- TECH: Distributed Muds Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Jon Lambert
- TECH: Distributed Muds Vincent Archer
- TECH: Distributed Muds Adam Martin
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- TECH: Distributed Muds Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Matt Chatterley
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds shren
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds J C Lawrence
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- Request to mailing list MUD-Dev rejected David Loeser
- Request to mailing list MUD-Dev rejected Derek Licciardi
- The Four Hour Alchemist J C Lawrence
- The Four Hour Alchemist Brad Triem
- The Four Hour Alchemist Batir
- TECH: non-integral integral types Nathan F.Yospe
- Necessary Stability (was: Logical MUD Areas) Scion Altera
- Necessary Stability (was: Logical MUD Areas) Vincent Archer
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #335 - 25 msgs Jessica Mulligan
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Sie Ming
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Madrona Tree
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Sie Ming
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Madrona Tree
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Nathan F.Yospe
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Adam Martin
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game J C Lawrence
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Nathan F.Yospe
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Nathan F.Yospe
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Adam Martin
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Brian Hook
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game rayzam
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Freeman, Jeff
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Luke Carruthers
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Freeman, Jeff
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game shren
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Marian Griffith
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Madrona Tree
- Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Jessica Mulligan
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Greg Munt
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) John Buehler
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) John Buehler
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Tchrin .
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Corey Crawford
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Travis Nixon
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Koster, Raph
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Jesse van Herk
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Vincent Archer
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Nathan F.Yospe
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) J C Lawrence
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Lars Duening
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Jeremy Noetzelman
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) rayzam
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Jeremy Noetzelman
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ben Sizer
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Koster, Raph
- OOC functionality (was: I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers]) Greg Munt
- Morality in Game Design (was: Logical MUD Areas) Scion Altera
- Morality in Game Design (was: Logical MUD Areas) John Buehler
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Freeman, Jeff
- Innovation restrictions Corey Crawford
- Innovation restrictions John Buehler
- Innovation restrictions Richard A. Bartle
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Where are we now?)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Immersiveness - good or bad? Adam Martin
- Immersiveness - good or bad? John Buehler
- Immersiveness - good or bad? Matt Mihaly
- Immersiveness - good or bad? Kwon Ekstrom
- Community Goals (was: I Want to Forge Swords.) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Community Goals (was: I Want to Forge Swords.) Eli Stevens
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database Chambers
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database Bryce Harrington
- The effects of object oriented servers on the itemdatabase brianleeprice@hotmail.com
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game des Auli
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Sie Ming
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Hulbert, Leland
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Marian Griffith
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Phillip Lenhardt
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Derek Licciardi
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Koster, Raph
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Adam Martin
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Vincent Archer
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Andrew Barratt
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Koster, Raph
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Matt Chatterley
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Alex Kay
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Brian Hook
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Vincent Archer
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Alex Kay
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) rayzam
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Bruce
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Bruce
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Chris Gray
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Adam Martin
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems brian price
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Bruce
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems brianleeprice@hotmail.com
- MUDs, cellphones and mobile players... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUDs, cellphones and mobile players... Christopher Allen
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database (Long) Derek Licciardi
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database (Long) Chambers
- Black & White on Radio Timothy Dang
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Mathue Moyer
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Derek Licciardi
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Madman Across the Water
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Derek Snider
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Lars Duening
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Adam Martin
- The ethics of violence thread J C Lawrence
- UO Volunteer Programs Closed AR Schleicher
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Re:Where are we now?)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Greg Munt
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Freeman, Jeff
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Phillip Lenhardt
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Bryce Harrington
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Bryce Harrington
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Kwon Ekstrom
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Adam Martin
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Marc Hernandez
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Chambers
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Adam Martin
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Greg Munt
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] F. Randall Farmer
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Matt Mihaly
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Greg Munt
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] F. Randall Farmer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game McManus, Susan
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game J C Lawrence
- [DGN] Moral responsibilities (was Logical MUD Areas) Mathue Moyer
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Bryce Harrington
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Gavin Doughtie
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Greg Munt
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Kwon Ekstrom
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Bruce
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Kwon Ekstrom
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Jared Nielsen
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Alex Kay
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Where are we now?)) Koster, Raph
- Characters or Pets? (I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [Tech] Overlapped I/O Chambers
- [Tech] Overlapped I/O Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [MUD-Dev][DGN] encouraging quick-start community for newbies Adam Martin
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Stuart
- [OT] Taking things too far. F. Randall Farmer
- [OT] Taking things too far. Sayeed
- [OT] Taking things too far. Frank Crowell
- [OT] Taking things too far. Matt Mihaly
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Stuart
- [OT] Taking things too far. John Buehler
- [OT] Taking things too far. Matt Mihaly
- [OT] Taking things too far. Matt Mihaly
- [OT] Taking things too far. Kevin Littlejohn
- [OT] Taking things too far. rayzam
- [OT] Taking things too far. Greg Munt
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Stuart
- [OT] Taking things too far. Adam Martin
- [OT] Taking things too far. F. Randall Farmer
- [OT] Taking things too far. Dave Rickey
- [OT] Taking things too far. John Buehler
- [OT] Taking things too far. Kwon Ekstrom
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Roberts
- Multithreaded servers using objects Chambers
- Multithreaded servers using objects David Loeser
- Multithreaded servers using objects Chambers
- Musashi's Unbelievably Long Rantings Koster, Raph
- Where were we then? Richard A. Bartle
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events (Was Logical Mud Areas) Peter Yu
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events (Was Logical Mud Areas) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [OT] Will this list survive? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [OT] Will this list survive? Taylor
- [OT] Will this list survive? Batir
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events (Was Logical Mud Areas) John W Pierce
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence [OT?] Adam Martin
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events Matt Mihaly
- MUD-DEv lists archives are currently broken claw@kanga.nu
- [BIZ] Randy's Resume F. Randall Farmer
- [BIZ] Randy's Resume F. Randall Farmer
- [BIZ] Randy's Resume Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- It's just a game (?) Trump
- WebServer fixed (kinda) J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Jussi 'Sulka' Haro
- Player run reputation system lhulbert@hotmail.com
- Player run reputation system shren
- Player run reputation system Travis Casey
- Player run reputation system Matt Mihaly
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system John Buehler
- Player run reputation system David Loeser
- Player run reputation system Sean Kelly
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system Sean Kelly
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system Sean K
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Timothy Dang
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Player run reputation system Timothy Dang
- Player run reputation system Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system John Hopson
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
On Mon, 25 Jun 2001 13:13:37 -0400
John Hopson <jhopson@nc.rr.com> wrote:
> In the Advogato system, trust is a fluid, trickling down from one
> node (user) to another. A small number of individuals, known
> formally as "Seeds" or jocularly as "Sun Gods", are inherently
> trusted at the highest level. All users (including the seed
> users) rate each other, and these ratings are used to calculate a
> network (see figure 1) of nodes radiating outwards from the Seed.
> The Seed users are then given the most trust, those they've rated
> highly next, and so on out to the farthest node, a long way out
> from the seed. Trust is a measure of how much you are respected
> by those who the seeds respect, with that respect being passed
> along, diminishing as it goes.
<nod>
> All trust flows outwards from the Seeds and new nodes/users start
> with no trust, two factors which combine to make the system
> resistant to invasion by twinks. Consider the case where a group
> of new users colonize the game and begin rating each other very
> highly. (Figure 4, under the heading "Security Proof") Because
> they start with nothing and those who have trust are presumed to
> have the judgement not to trust the twinks, their ratings are
> meaningless. They can rate each other however they like, but
> until the system lets them in, until trusted users rate them
> positively, they have no effect. The important feature here is
> that it doesn't matter how many of the twinks there are, their
> ratings can only gain meaning to the degree that they are
> respected by the community at large.
Almost.
The new crowd of user's ratings only gain meaning if and only if at
least one of the crowd gets rated positively by an already rated
member of the extant community.
My attempt to reduce Advogato's trust metrics down to basics:
You have no status until someone with status tells you you do.
The status you get from them is proportional to both their
status and how they rate you.
Their status is proportional to how far they are away from God
(a root node) both in vote chains (A voted for B who voted for C
etc), and in the status they're awarded (he is an idiot, he is
Okay, he's good, he's great, he's a God).
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> I think the Advogato system, which very impressive and apparently
> effective for what they're doing, is not suitable for muds as is.
It implicitly tends to build cliques, has no deflationary factors as
the rewards are for voting up, not voting down, and there is nothing
except down votes to prevent meaningless inflation. Some of the
Advogato pages I linked to specifically complain of this fact. In
Advogato's case they are relying on close social and reputational
ties to encourage deflation (masters value their status and are so
discriminating about spreading the wealth lest it devalue their
status by reflection).
> As I understand it, the code involves having all nodes in a list
> in real time, arranging them in a space, then assigning trust.
Actually he computes the table once on each update and then stores
it for later access.
> This works fine for the 400 something users Advogato has, but I
> suspect it would choke on the thousands or tens of thousands
> required for a MMPOG.
<<Gads that term is annoying>>
My impression is that three passes over the graph should get a good
enough approximation of steady state (back of the napkin work). If
so, in all but corner cases that the compute load isn't too too bad
even for a player base numbered in the small tens of thousands. Its
certainly not cheap, but given that the voting/rating rate is
unlikely to ever saturate (and can be controlled by mechanical
means) I don't see much problem here.
Its a back-end compute problem, isn't very time or latency
sensitive, and submits nicely to ad-hoc whacks of small chunks of
the node space on an as-accessed basis.
> My concern is that we're not actually talking about "Player run
> reputation systems" in this thread...
Yup, we're talking about mechanical systems that players can use to
maintain a player rating system on some metric they collectively
define (or not).
> We're talking about systems where the code uses player-ratings to
> come up with a reputation score that meets the same criteria as
> the rest of the code (not obviously abusable, objective,
> impartial, etc).
If you drop the objective and impartial bits I'd agree. I don't see
the worth (or use) in building systems that expect players to be
impartial, or which attempt to interpret and predict their biases
such that the system behaves as if they were impartial. Not worth
it. Also boring. It comes down to attempting to determine intent;
possibly the slipperiest design slope there.
> I believe this is a wrong turn. We really don't want to be in the
> position of flagging a player as trustworthy or untrustworthy...
Yup. The trick is the gear the presentation so that we don't do
that and aren't (generally) thought to do that either. Part of the
deal there is that a negative stat (degree of distrust) will
implicitly create perception problems with the players.
> ...because if we're wrong, the players are pissed at us.
Yup.
> What we want is for players to be able to see what other players
> think of someone. We want players to be completely responsible
> for the system, and for that system to reflect what the players
> think is important about each other.
Under the Advogato system a key aspect is that the votes are exposed
such that a member can see how he got his rating, why, and via what
votes from whom. I see little reason this same data couldn't be
exposed in a MUD. Doing so would help take the admins out of the
blame loop.
The question of "what they think" assumes interpretation of intent,
something I we'd be wise to stay away from. IF and as we supply
mechanisms, no matter what definitions and models we provide for
them, the players will derive their own definitions and their models
for them, and will then apply them accordingly. The fact that we
called if XXX and meant it to measure XXX really has nothing to do
with it. Players are both quite willing and capable of calling it
XXX and using it to measure cup sizes on female player characters
should that be their interest.
> As of now, I think the best solution is to have multiple rating
> systems and let the players choose which rating system they want
> to see. Let's say I run a good-aligned group, the Knights of
> Niceness. I submit a rating system to the game (-1 to 1, naughty,
> neutral, nice) and set it so my fellow Knights are all allowed to
> rate people on this system. Anyone can set their preferences so
> they see on other players the ratings we give them. If they don't
> like our system, they're free to complain to Knights or use
> another system. Our name becomes a brand, letting people know
> what they get when they use our rating system.
Which is essentially equivalent to using the Advogato system except
that you allow each group to define their own stat group with their
own private-to-their-stat-group root nodes.
Its a named population thing.
> Another group might let anyone rate, or it might be just "Bob's
> ratings". It would also be possible to put a couple coded
> systems, such as number of coded crimes committed, etc. Players
> could even use multiple systems and see a composite rating.
> The nice thing about this is it takes all the burden off the game
> and its administrators. Don't like the rating system? Create and
> promote your own. Wish there were a system rating OOC roleplaying
> ability player rather than IC criminality? Go for it. The system
> becomes whatever the players want/need it to be.
Doncha love soft code systems?
--
J C Lawrence claw@kanga.nu
---------(*) http://www.kanga.nu/~claw/
I never claimed to be human.
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system shren
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system Taylor
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Matt Mihaly
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system Sean Kelly
- Player run reputation system Jon Lambert
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system Phillip Lenhardt
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Trump
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system McManus, Susan
- Player run reputation system Trump
- Player run reputation system shren
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Andrew Reisse
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system Matt Mihaly
- [TECH] 2 papers on python in muds Bruce
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Dan Merillat
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. wrenner@uiuc.edu
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Dan Merillat
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Dave Rickey
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lo se your balance. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Vincent Archer
- DGN: shard growth patterns? mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu
- DGN: shard growth patterns? J C Lawrence
- DGN: shard growth patterns? Ray Cuadro
- DGN: shard growth patterns? rayzam
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Re:Wher are we now?)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dragoness
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Vincent Archer
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Corey Crawford
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Rickey
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jessica Mulligan
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott John Buehler
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Travis Casey
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Koster, Raph
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Trump
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Phillip Lenhardt
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Koster, Raph
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott shren
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Batir
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Marc Bowden
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Frank Alexander
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Koster, Raph
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jessica Mulligan
- Lineage and Garriott Matt Mihaly
- Lineage and Garriott Dragoness
- The sad death of Nowheremom Zak Jarvis
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Bruce
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Adam Martin
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers John Buehler
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers J C Lawrence
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Dave Rickey
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Dave Rickey
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Marc Fielding
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Dave Rickey
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Jon Morrow
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Christopher Allen
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Christopher Allen
- business models william ralph renner
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Bruce
- business models Stephen Benz
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Christopher Allen
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Stephen Benz
- business models Martin Burke
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models william ralph renner
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models rayzam
- business models Stephen Benz
- business models shren
- business models Auli
- business models Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- business models Jason Salem
- business models Marc Bowden
- business models Jason Salem
- business models John Buehler
- business models shren
- business models Koster, Raph
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Koster, Raph
- business models Hulbert, Leland
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Koster, Raph
- business models Auli
- business models Steven Veltema
- business models Batir
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Jon Morrow
- business models Dave Rickey
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Koster, Raph
- Paying Volunteers Update? Jon Morrow
- Request to mailing list MUD-Dev rejected Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- It's just a game (?) Ananda Dawnsinger
- It's just a game (?) Matt Mihaly
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Sharon Mock
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Dragoness
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Richard A. Bartle
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Marian Griffith
- It's just a game (?) Ananda Dawnsinger
- [Adm] BBSs, Access restrictions...was Logical MUD Areas Jon Lambert
- [Adm] BBSs, Access restrictions...was Logical MUD Areas SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Coordinate mapping with text-based MUDs Jared Nielsen
- Coordinate mapping with text-based MUDs Kwon Ekstrom
- Metrics, Data, and Statistics Jon Morrow
- New Yorker Article Dave Rickey
- New Yorker Article Marc Fielding
- Graphics engines was Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Graphics engines was Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Travis Nixon
- Graphics engines was Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Jessica Mulligan's Column "Biting the Hand" Now at Skotos Christopher Allen
- Outdoor and indoor 3d engines Adam Martin
- Neil Young Invents UO Dragoness
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Taylor
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Trump
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content David Bennett
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Trump
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Geoffrey MacDougall
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Jon Morrow
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Greg Underwood
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Willowreed@aol.com
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Christopher Allen
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Matt Mihaly
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Neil Brown
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Matt Mihaly
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Kroh, Clayton
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Jon Morrow
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content rayzam
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Jon Morrow
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Greg Underwood
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Geoffrey MacDougall
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Koster, Raph
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Dave Rickey
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content Trump
- JOB: How to get into Game Design / Game content SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Article: The Ascendancy of Mass Market Gaming Bruce
- Thread Pools (was: TECH: Distributed Muds) Scion Altera
- Thread Pools (was: TECH: Distributed Muds) Greg Underwood
- Thread Pools (was: TECH: Distributed Muds) Matt Chatterley
- UO Volunteer Programs Marc Bowden
- Intellectual Property Lawyer Jon Morrow
- Intellectual Property Lawyer Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- Korea, was [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- (no subject) J C Lawrence
- Korea, was [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- Korea, was [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Korea, was [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- Korea, was [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Korea, was [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- Korea, was [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Korea, was [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- Imaginary Realities - May 2001 David Bennett
- Virtual Good Value Assertion Eric Rhea
- Virtual Good Value Assertion wrenner@uiuc.edu
- Virtual Good Value Assertion F. Randall Farmer
- Virtual Good Value Assertion Vincent Archer
- Virtual Good Value Assertion Matt Mihaly
- Virtual Good Value Assertion Eric Rhea
- Virtual Good Value Assertion Matt Mihaly
- Neverwinter Nights John W Pierce
- Neverwinter Nights John W Pierce
- Neverwinter Nights Martin Burke
- Neverwinter Nights Freeman, Jeff
- Neverwinter Nights Gavin Doughtie
- Neverwinter Nights Dave Rickey
- Neverwinter Nights Taylor
- Neverwinter Nights Rob Bartel
- Neverwinter Nights Lars Duening
- Neverwinter Nights Christopher Kohnert
- Neverwinter Nights Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Neverwinter Nights Eli Stevens
- Neverwinter Nights Christopher Kohnert
- Neverwinter Nights David Loeser
- Neverwinter Nights Lee Sheldon
- Neverwinter Nights Valerio Santinelli
- Neverwinter Nights Lee Sheldon
- Neverwinter Nights Valerio Santinelli
- Neverwinter Nights Koster, Raph
- Neverwinter Nights Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Neverwinter Nights Adam Martin
- Neverwinter Nights John Buehler
- Neverwinter Nights rayzam
- Neverwinter Nights Lars Duening
- Neverwinter Nights rayzam
- Neverwinter Nights John Buehler
- Neverwinter Nights rayzam
- Neverwinter Nights John Buehler
- Neverwinter Nights rayzam
- Neverwinter Nights Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Maintaining fiction. Trump
- Maintaining fiction. Brian Hook
- Maintaining fiction. Trump
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Marc Fielding
- Maintaining fiction. Trump
- Maintaining fiction. Marc Fielding
- Maintaining fiction. Trump
- Maintaining fiction. Brian Hook
- Maintaining fiction. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Marian Griffith
- Maintaining fiction. Jon Lambert
- Maintaining fiction. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Neil Brown
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Chatterley
- Maintaining fiction. Vincent Archer
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Vincent Archer
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Hulbert, Leland
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Hulbert, Leland
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Hulbert, Leland
- Maintaining fiction. Edward Glowacki
- Maintaining fiction. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Vincent Archer
- Maintaining fiction. Neil Brown
- Maintaining fiction. Phillip Lenhardt
- Maintaining fiction. Neil Brown
- Maintaining fiction. Christopher Kohnert
- Maintaining fiction. Corey Crawford
- Maintaining fiction. Neil Brown
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Neil Brown
- Maintaining fiction. Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Maintaining fiction. Neil Brown
- Maintaining fiction. Marc Fielding
- Maintaining fiction. John Buehler
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Chatterley
- Maintaining fiction. Alex Kay
- Maintaining fiction. Michael Tresca
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Brian Hook
- Maintaining fiction. Adam Martin
- Maintaining fiction. Brian Hook
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Dave Rickey
- Maintaining fiction. rayzam
- Maintaining fiction. Michael Tresca
- Maintaining fiction. Ananda Dawnsinger
- Maintaining fiction. Peter Tyson
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Nixon
- Maintaining fiction. z032383@students.niu.edu
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Andrew Reisse
- Maintaining fiction. Christopher Kohnert
- Maintaining fiction. Madman Across the Water
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Madman Across the Water
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. SavantKnowsAll@cs.com
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Trump
- Maintaining fiction. Vincent Archer
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Chatterley
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Chatterley
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Madman Across the Water
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Madman Across the Water
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Madman Across the Water
- Maintaining fiction. Eli Stevens
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Madman Across the Water
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. John Buehler
- Maintaining fiction. Ian Collyer
- Maintaining fiction. Madman Across the Water
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Madman Across the Water
- Maintaining fiction. Ian Collyer
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Ian Collyer
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. Vincent Archer
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Jon Lambert
- Maintaining fiction. John Buehler
- Maintaining fiction. Jon Lambert
- Maintaining fiction. John Buehler
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Nixon
- Maintaining fiction. J C Lawrence
- Maintaining fiction. Ian Collyer
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. caduvall@wam.umd.edu
- Maintaining fiction. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Jon Lambert
- Maintaining fiction. Daniel A. Koepke
- Maintaining fiction. Phillip Lenhardt
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Vincent Archer
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. John Buehler
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Matt Mihaly
- Maintaining fiction. Trump
- Maintaining fiction. Brian Hook
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Derek Licciardi
- Maintaining fiction. shren
- Maintaining fiction. Phillip Lenhardt
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. Phillip Lenhardt
- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
- Maintaining fiction. J C Lawrence
- Maintaining fiction. Koster, Raph
- Maintaining fiction. Peter Tyson
- Maintaining fiction. Freeman, Jeff
- Maintaining fiction. Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Upcoming Commercial, Text-Based Games Jon Morrow
- Upcoming Commercial, Text-Based Games Bob Cochran
- [TECH] Programming languages (was: Neverwinter Nights) Bruce
- [TECH] Programming languages (was: Neverwinter Nights) John W Pierce
- Spoof implementation Eli Stevens
- BIZ: Online consoles and MUDs Peter Tyson
- BIZ: Online consoles and MUDs Neil Brown