May 2001
- Clean Code (was:TECH: reliablity) Dave Rickey
- neat game Matt Mihaly
- neat game Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas Lynx
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Ryan P.
- Logical MUD Areas Elia Morling
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas Koster, Raph
- Logical MUD Areas Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas Marian Griffith
- Logical MUD Areas Phillip Lenhardt
- Logical MUD Areas Michael Tresca
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Logical MUD Areas Matt Mihaly
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Eli Stevens
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas S. Patrick Gallaty
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Jon Lambert
- Logical MUD Areas Matt Mihaly
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Ryan P.
- Logical MUD Areas Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Logical MUD Areas Derek Licciardi
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas Jon Lambert
- Logical MUD Areas Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Michael Stoddart
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Logical MUD Areas Mathue Moyer
- Logical MUD Areas Kwon Ekstrom
- Logical MUD Areas Chuk Radder
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Chuk Radder
- Logical MUD Areas Triem, Brad
- Logical MUD Areas shren
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas Brian Hook
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Brian Hook
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Ryan P.
- Logical MUD Areas Eli Stevens
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas shren
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Derek Licciardi
- Logical MUD Areas Andrew McLaren
- Logical MUD Areas Hulbert, Leland
- Logical MUD Areas Malcolm Tester
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Koster, Raph
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Matt Mihaly
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Richard A. Bartle
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Koster, Raph
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Matt Mihaly
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Koster, Raph
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Derek Licciardi
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Luke Carruthers
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Dave Rickey
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Dave Rickey
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) John Buehler
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] S. Patrick Gallaty
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] John Buehler
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Martin Burke
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Vincent Archer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game des igners] Koster, Raph
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Madman Across the Water
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Travis Nixon
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Vincent Archer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Vincent Archer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] asnellin@san.rr.com
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Dave Rickey
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Eli Stevens
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game des igners] Koster, Raph
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Frank Crowell
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Baron, Jonathan
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Travis Nixon
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle shren
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Adam Martin
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Jon Lambert
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- TECH: Distributed Muds Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Jon Lambert
- TECH: Distributed Muds Vincent Archer
- TECH: Distributed Muds Adam Martin
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- TECH: Distributed Muds Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Matt Chatterley
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds shren
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds J C Lawrence
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- Request to mailing list MUD-Dev rejected David Loeser
- Request to mailing list MUD-Dev rejected Derek Licciardi
- The Four Hour Alchemist J C Lawrence
- The Four Hour Alchemist Brad Triem
- The Four Hour Alchemist Batir
- TECH: non-integral integral types Nathan F.Yospe
- Necessary Stability (was: Logical MUD Areas) Scion Altera
- Necessary Stability (was: Logical MUD Areas) Vincent Archer
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #335 - 25 msgs Jessica Mulligan
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Sie Ming
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Madrona Tree
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Sie Ming
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Madrona Tree
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Nathan F.Yospe
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Adam Martin
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game J C Lawrence
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Nathan F.Yospe
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Nathan F.Yospe
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Adam Martin
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Brian Hook
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game rayzam
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Freeman, Jeff
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Luke Carruthers
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Freeman, Jeff
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game shren
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Marian Griffith
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Madrona Tree
- Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Jessica Mulligan
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Greg Munt
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) John Buehler
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) John Buehler
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Tchrin .
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Corey Crawford
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Travis Nixon
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Koster, Raph
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Jesse van Herk
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Vincent Archer
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Nathan F.Yospe
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) J C Lawrence
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Lars Duening
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Jeremy Noetzelman
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) rayzam
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Jeremy Noetzelman
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ben Sizer
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Koster, Raph
- OOC functionality (was: I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers]) Greg Munt
- Morality in Game Design (was: Logical MUD Areas) Scion Altera
- Morality in Game Design (was: Logical MUD Areas) John Buehler
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Freeman, Jeff
- Innovation restrictions Corey Crawford
- Innovation restrictions John Buehler
- Innovation restrictions Richard A. Bartle
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Where are we now?)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Immersiveness - good or bad? Adam Martin
- Immersiveness - good or bad? John Buehler
- Immersiveness - good or bad? Matt Mihaly
- Immersiveness - good or bad? Kwon Ekstrom
- Community Goals (was: I Want to Forge Swords.) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Community Goals (was: I Want to Forge Swords.) Eli Stevens
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database Chambers
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database Bryce Harrington
- The effects of object oriented servers on the itemdatabase brianleeprice@hotmail.com
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game des Auli
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Sie Ming
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Hulbert, Leland
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Marian Griffith
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Phillip Lenhardt
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Derek Licciardi
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Koster, Raph
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Adam Martin
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Vincent Archer
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Andrew Barratt
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Koster, Raph
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Matt Chatterley
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Alex Kay
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Brian Hook
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Vincent Archer
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Alex Kay
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) rayzam
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Bruce
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Bruce
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Chris Gray
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Adam Martin
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems brian price
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Bruce
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems brianleeprice@hotmail.com
- MUDs, cellphones and mobile players... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUDs, cellphones and mobile players... Christopher Allen
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database (Long) Derek Licciardi
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database (Long) Chambers
- Black & White on Radio Timothy Dang
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Mathue Moyer
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Derek Licciardi
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Madman Across the Water
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Derek Snider
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Lars Duening
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Adam Martin
- The ethics of violence thread J C Lawrence
- UO Volunteer Programs Closed AR Schleicher
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Re:Where are we now?)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Greg Munt
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Freeman, Jeff
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Phillip Lenhardt
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Bryce Harrington
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Bryce Harrington
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Kwon Ekstrom
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Adam Martin
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Marc Hernandez
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Chambers
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Adam Martin
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Greg Munt
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] F. Randall Farmer
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Matt Mihaly
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Greg Munt
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] F. Randall Farmer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game McManus, Susan
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game J C Lawrence
- [DGN] Moral responsibilities (was Logical MUD Areas) Mathue Moyer
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Bryce Harrington
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Gavin Doughtie
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Greg Munt
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Kwon Ekstrom
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Bruce
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Kwon Ekstrom
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Jared Nielsen
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Alex Kay
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Where are we now?)) Koster, Raph
- Characters or Pets? (I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [Tech] Overlapped I/O Chambers
- [Tech] Overlapped I/O Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [MUD-Dev][DGN] encouraging quick-start community for newbies Adam Martin
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Stuart
- [OT] Taking things too far. F. Randall Farmer
- [OT] Taking things too far. Sayeed
- [OT] Taking things too far. Frank Crowell
- [OT] Taking things too far. Matt Mihaly
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Stuart
- [OT] Taking things too far. John Buehler
- [OT] Taking things too far. Matt Mihaly
- [OT] Taking things too far. Matt Mihaly
- [OT] Taking things too far. Kevin Littlejohn
- [OT] Taking things too far. rayzam
- [OT] Taking things too far. Greg Munt
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Stuart
- [OT] Taking things too far. Adam Martin
- [OT] Taking things too far. F. Randall Farmer
- [OT] Taking things too far. Dave Rickey
- [OT] Taking things too far. John Buehler
- [OT] Taking things too far. Kwon Ekstrom
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Roberts
- Multithreaded servers using objects Chambers
- Multithreaded servers using objects David Loeser
- Multithreaded servers using objects Chambers
- Musashi's Unbelievably Long Rantings Koster, Raph
- Where were we then? Richard A. Bartle
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events (Was Logical Mud Areas) Peter Yu
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events (Was Logical Mud Areas) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [OT] Will this list survive? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [OT] Will this list survive? Taylor
- [OT] Will this list survive? Batir
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events (Was Logical Mud Areas) John W Pierce
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence [OT?] Adam Martin
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events Matt Mihaly
- MUD-DEv lists archives are currently broken claw@kanga.nu
- [BIZ] Randy's Resume F. Randall Farmer
- [BIZ] Randy's Resume F. Randall Farmer
- [BIZ] Randy's Resume Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- It's just a game (?) Trump
- WebServer fixed (kinda) J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Jussi 'Sulka' Haro
- Player run reputation system lhulbert@hotmail.com
- Player run reputation system shren
- Player run reputation system Travis Casey
- Player run reputation system Matt Mihaly
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system John Buehler
- Player run reputation system David Loeser
- Player run reputation system Sean Kelly
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system Sean Kelly
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system Sean K
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Timothy Dang
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Player run reputation system Timothy Dang
- Player run reputation system Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system John Hopson
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system shren
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system Taylor
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Matt Mihaly
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system Sean Kelly
- Player run reputation system Jon Lambert
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system Phillip Lenhardt
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Trump
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system McManus, Susan
- Player run reputation system Trump
- Player run reputation system shren
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Andrew Reisse
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system Matt Mihaly
- [TECH] 2 papers on python in muds Bruce
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Dan Merillat
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. wrenner@uiuc.edu
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Dan Merillat
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Dave Rickey
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lo se your balance. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Vincent Archer
- DGN: shard growth patterns? mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu
- DGN: shard growth patterns? J C Lawrence
- DGN: shard growth patterns? Ray Cuadro
- DGN: shard growth patterns? rayzam
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Re:Wher are we now?)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dragoness
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Vincent Archer
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Corey Crawford
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Rickey
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jessica Mulligan
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott John Buehler
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Travis Casey
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Koster, Raph
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Trump
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Phillip Lenhardt
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Koster, Raph
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott shren
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Batir
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Marc Bowden
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Frank Alexander
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Koster, Raph
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jessica Mulligan
- Lineage and Garriott Matt Mihaly
- Lineage and Garriott Dragoness
- The sad death of Nowheremom Zak Jarvis
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Bruce
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Adam Martin
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers John Buehler
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers J C Lawrence
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Dave Rickey
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Dave Rickey
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Marc Fielding
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Dave Rickey
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Jon Morrow
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Christopher Allen
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Christopher Allen
- business models william ralph renner
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Bruce
- business models Stephen Benz
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Christopher Allen
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Stephen Benz
- business models Martin Burke
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models william ralph renner
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models rayzam
- business models Stephen Benz
- business models shren
- business models Auli
- business models Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- business models Jason Salem
- business models Marc Bowden
- business models Jason Salem
- business models John Buehler
- business models shren
- business models Koster, Raph
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Koster, Raph
- business models Hulbert, Leland
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Koster, Raph
- business models Auli
- business models Steven Veltema
- business models Batir
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Jon Morrow
- business models Dave Rickey
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Koster, Raph
- Paying Volunteers Update? Jon Morrow
- Request to mailing list MUD-Dev rejected Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- It's just a game (?) Ananda Dawnsinger
- It's just a game (?) Matt Mihaly
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Sharon Mock
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Dragoness
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Richard A. Bartle
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Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote:
> On Fri, 08 Jun 2001 09:09:55 -0400, Travis Casey
> <efindel@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> In the same way, you can play a game where you'll eventually lose
>> your character for fun -- and if you know you want to play for a
>> certain amount of time, you can ration your risk.
> It's still not a fair comparison.
I think it is. I'll readily admit that *most* people won't want to
play such a game -- which I think probably brings us into agreement.
My only beef was that the way your original messages were stated, it
seemed to me that you and others were saying that *no one* would
want to play such games.
>> All I'm saying is that the consequences of character death are
>> acceptable to some players. Indeed, some players will tell you,
>> and honestly believe, that the game is less fun without the
>> possibility of losing their character.
> Yes, that's true. And there are people who jump out of helicopters
> on mountain bikes, too. That doesn't mean you can run an effective
> business that drops people on mountain bikes out of helicopters.
Actually, I believe there are some businesses which do just
that... that may not be the *only* thing they do, but they do that.
Personally, I find almost any serious risk to my actual life in the
name of "fun" to be too much -- I won't do bungee jumping or
anything else like that. But there are enough people who *do* like
that sort of thing that there are businesses that cater to them.
A permadeath mud, even of the sort that I'm talking about where not
*every* death is permanent, will be too high-risk for a lot of
players. But I think it can be viable as a niche mud -- especially
for those of us who want to run free muds, and therefore don't care
about whether or not it's possible to make money doing it.
>>> This may be offset almost completely with a PERMANENT character
>>> identification, separate from the character's name.
>> Which already exists -- the player's real name and background
>> info.
> Which is none of anyone's business.
I never said that anyone should be required to give those -- I
merely gave examples of how some people already use them to
establish continuity between different characters of theirs.
>> Not true. In Galaga, you could gain the second ship and keep it
>> -- making your character more powerful. Across the genre as a
>> whole, many video games have "powerups" of various sorts.
> All of which are lost in a matter of minutes.
If it's just minutes for you, you're not very good at the game in
question. :-)
> It's a false comparison: a game which is designed to be played for
> a few minutes is not the same as a game designed to be played for
> several weeks.
I didn't say it was the same -- I was simply using that genre of
games to show that people will spend time and money on games in
which they have nothing "real" to show for the time and money.
>> Further, one could say the same of some muds -- in a MOO-style
>> mud, for example, there's often no character advancement of any
>> kind.
> And generally no death, either. Once again, false comparison.
I didn't mention it as a comparison.
>> Permadeath does not leave out the possibility of multiple lives
>> -- it only implies that a final death is possible.
> Actually, it IMPLIES that a final death is LIKELY. It outright
> *states* that they're possible.
The latter I'll grant; my mistake in phrasing. The former, however,
need not be true -- at least, not for reasonable values of "likely".
>> Paper D&D, for example, has the ability for characters to come
>> back from the dead, but also has permanent death.
> ...and a human being in charge of keeping things "fair". False
> comparison.
A mud can also have human beings in charge of keeping things "fair."
Most current ones don't, but it is not a requirement of the genre.
>>> , and gameplay is a single skill which is easily learned.
>> One could argue that the same thing is true in many RPGs, and
>> even moreso in many muds. Your knowledge of what works well and
>> where things are doesn't go away because your character died.
> But the availability of those things often does. I may know that I
> can kill the dragon with the green sword, and that the green sword
> is on the top floor of the ruined tower, but without the ability
> to climb the tower that information is effectively useless.
You can, and people have proposed here, create a mud in which
character ability does not increase with time. In such a mud, you'd
decide up front whether or not you wanted to have such ability.
>>> Furthermore, the ONLY way you could lose a life would be if YOU
>>> made a mistake.
>> Supposing a perfect environment, yes. In the real world, though,
>> I've often lost lives in video games because someone bumped me,
>> or I suddenly had to sneeze or cough, or a loud noise distracted
>> me for a second. These sorts of things are part of why many
>> people don't like "twitch games".
> These sorts of things are also "mistakes". They can be guarded
> against and usually prevented.
I do not agree that they are "mistakes". They are accidents, which
is a different thing. They can be guarded against, but preventing
them is impossible.
>> For that matter, in some games, it's possible to get into
>> situations where it's simply not possible to survive.
> Also a mistake. Avoid the situation.
Avoiding the situation is not always possible.
>> As I mentioned above, permadeath does not have to mean that there
>> is *no* access to resurrection, just that it isn't automatic.
>> The fact that your character *can* die permanently doesn't mean
>> that *every* death has to be permanent.
> Then it's not really death, is it?
Huh? If a death is only a death if it's permanent, then the term
"permadeath" makes no sense -- we'd just be talking about "death".
Many existing games have multiple kinds of "death" -- e.g., in AD&D,
a character may die many times before dieing a final death, but
every death has a chance of being final (if the character fails the
resurrection survival roll).
>>> and that character can be trashed forever by a single bad
>>> result from a random number generator.
>> Not likely, unless you're wandering into very high-danger areas.
>> And, as noted above, that's possible in some video games as well.
> Most games *force* you into high-danger areas at higher
> levels. It's like a constant "double or nothing" bet.
Most games, yes. But what *most* games do has no bearing on whether
a permadeath mud *might* be feasible -- after all, there's no reason
why any *particular* mud has to do things the way *most* muds do.
>> IMHO, the problem here is not the possibility of permadeath --
>> it's the setup of the mud.
> See your "Galaga" example.
What about it?
>> I think you're presuming that a permadeath mud would have to have
>> the same emphasis on lethal combat that current muds do. If
>> lethal combat is more rare, than permadeath would be easier to
>> deal with.
> That's true! If the chance of dying was one in a million, I'd be
> perfectly willing to accept that death was irreversible.
The chance of dieing in what time period? Not trying to be
argumentative, just to establish what sort of chance you're really
talking about.
>>>> You have won something -- the ability to say that you were
>>>> good enough to get to where you could kill the dragon.
>>> Then why do it? Why not just look at the dragon, say "I could
>>> kill the dragon", and keep walking?
>> Because then you have no proof that you could. Is the idea of
>> wanting to prove your ability so foreign to you?
> No. But I can prove it to myself without running out and showing
> people. If the dragon has 48 hit points and I do 12 points of
> damage per strike, while I have 96 hit points and the dragon does
> 8 points of damage per strike -- I'd say the proof is there. I
> know the answer, so I don't have to go do it unless I have a
> better reason.
Maybe you don't... but there are other people who do like to prove
it to others. And, for that matter, in a mud that's more using a
system more complex than 70's RPG mechanics, proving to yourself
that you can do it may be considerably more difficult without
actually trying it.
>> Sometimes success can be its own reward. And one of the good
>> points of having a community in a game is that the game doesn't
>> have to provide all the rewards -- the community can provide
>> some.
> But if the community MUST provide the rewards, the game is
> incomplete and fundamentally flawed. Communities are never what
> you thought they would be.
If that were the case, then all paper RPGs would be fundamentally
flawed, since all of them rely on a community. I don't accept that
argument.
>> Maybe that's your contract with a mud, but it's not mine. Mine
>> is more like:
>> I will have fun playing this game.
> That's what I said. I think what I described is fun. If I can't do
> that on a MUD, it's not a MUD I want to play.
That *you* want to play. Other people, such as me, may have a
different idea of what's fun.
>> I can have fun playing in a game even with the possibility of
>> losing my character permanently. Maybe it's the fact that I
>> played paper RPGs for twelve years before my first mud, and
>> permadeath was possible in all of those.
> How many of them were run by a computer?
All of them. A human brain is nothing but an extremely complex
computer. :-)
More seriously, I've played several paper RPGs where I *knew*, with
100% certainty, that my character was going to die -- yet I still
had fun playing them.
>>> If you die in a game of Galaga, you lose a quarter and ten
>>> minutes.
>> I haven't lost anything. I paid a quarter to be entertained for
>> ten minutes.
> Perhaps I should say "spend" instead of "lose". Yes, you get
> something for what you spend, just like you get the fun of playing
> blackjack or whatever when you lose in Vegas. But it's still a
> question of *degree*. When I make a large investment, I expect a
> large return. That's why I play MUDs instead of Quake in the first
> place.
That's one place where we differ -- I don't consider a mud to be a
large investment. Or, to put it another way, if a mud requires a
large investment of time before you can start having fun, I won't
play that mud.
> But the entertainment has to remain entertaining. Most MUDs are
> BORING AS HELL until you get to a certain level. Then they become
> fun.
It's possible that most muds are like that -- I've played on about a
dozen muds, and played for a long time on four of those. The ones
that I left, I generally left because I wasn't having much fun.
Personally, I'd say that if a mud isn't fun within the first couple
of hours of when you start playing, that mud is poorly designed.
Of course, it's also possible that we have different standards for
what's fun. Do you consider playing first level AD&D characters to
be fun? I do, but I also know people who don't consider AD&D to be
fun until their characters get to a higher level.
>> Now, this isn't *exactly* like a saved single-player game,
> My point exactly.
And my point is that X need not be exactly like Y in order to be an
acceptable substitute, for at least some of the population. You can
have something enough like a "saved game" to be acceptable to many
players, without having something that's *exactly* like a "saved
game".
At any rate, going beyond the point-by-point stuff, I have three
major things to say:
1 - There exist some people for whom a permadeath mud, even with
something close to a current mud setup, would be at least
acceptable. I'll readily admit that there aren't *many* such
people, but I don't believe that fact has to be a bar to anyone
who wants to create such a game.
2 - A mud with permadeath need not be set up like a "typical" mud
today is. There's a broad range of modifications which could make
the possibility of permadeath palatable to a broader range of
people.
3 - Permadeath need not mean that *every* death is permanent. See
AD&D for an example of a game which has permadeath, but in which
it is often possible to recover from death.
--
|\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel@earthlink.net>
ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_)
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