May 2001
- Clean Code (was:TECH: reliablity) Dave Rickey
- neat game Matt Mihaly
- neat game Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas Lynx
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Ryan P.
- Logical MUD Areas Elia Morling
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas Koster, Raph
- Logical MUD Areas Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas Marian Griffith
- Logical MUD Areas Phillip Lenhardt
- Logical MUD Areas Michael Tresca
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Logical MUD Areas Matt Mihaly
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Eli Stevens
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas S. Patrick Gallaty
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Jon Lambert
- Logical MUD Areas Matt Mihaly
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Adam Martin
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Ryan P.
- Logical MUD Areas Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Logical MUD Areas Derek Licciardi
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas Jon Lambert
- Logical MUD Areas Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Michael Stoddart
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Logical MUD Areas Mathue Moyer
- Logical MUD Areas Kwon Ekstrom
- Logical MUD Areas Chuk Radder
- Logical MUD Areas Scion Altera
- Logical MUD Areas Chuk Radder
- Logical MUD Areas Triem, Brad
- Logical MUD Areas shren
- Logical MUD Areas Kevin Littlejohn
- Logical MUD Areas Brian Hook
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Brian Hook
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas John Buehler
- Logical MUD Areas Ryan P.
- Logical MUD Areas Eli Stevens
- Logical MUD Areas Brad Triem
- Logical MUD Areas shren
- Logical MUD Areas Travis Nixon
- Logical MUD Areas Derek Licciardi
- Logical MUD Areas Andrew McLaren
- Logical MUD Areas Hulbert, Leland
- Logical MUD Areas Malcolm Tester
- Logical MUD Areas Greg Munt
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Koster, Raph
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Matt Mihaly
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Richard A. Bartle
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Koster, Raph
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Matt Mihaly
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Koster, Raph
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Derek Licciardi
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Luke Carruthers
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Dave Rickey
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) Dave Rickey
- Information sharing (was: Where are we now?) John Buehler
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] S. Patrick Gallaty
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] John Buehler
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Martin Burke
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Vincent Archer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game des igners] Koster, Raph
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Madman Across the Water
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Travis Nixon
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Vincent Archer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Vincent Archer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] asnellin@san.rr.com
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Dave Rickey
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers] Eli Stevens
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game des igners] Koster, Raph
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Frank Crowell
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Baron, Jonathan
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Travis Nixon
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle shren
- [biz] Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Adam Martin
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Jon Lambert
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- TECH: Distributed Muds Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Jon Lambert
- TECH: Distributed Muds Vincent Archer
- TECH: Distributed Muds Adam Martin
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- TECH: Distributed Muds Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds Matt Chatterley
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds shren
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- TECH: Distributed Muds asnellin@san.rr.com
- TECH: Distributed Muds J C Lawrence
- TECH: Distributed Muds Bruce
- Request to mailing list MUD-Dev rejected David Loeser
- Request to mailing list MUD-Dev rejected Derek Licciardi
- The Four Hour Alchemist J C Lawrence
- The Four Hour Alchemist Brad Triem
- The Four Hour Alchemist Batir
- TECH: non-integral integral types Nathan F.Yospe
- Necessary Stability (was: Logical MUD Areas) Scion Altera
- Necessary Stability (was: Logical MUD Areas) Vincent Archer
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #335 - 25 msgs Jessica Mulligan
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Auli
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Sie Ming
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Madrona Tree
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Sie Ming
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Madrona Tree
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Nathan F.Yospe
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Adam Martin
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game J C Lawrence
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Nathan F.Yospe
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Nathan F.Yospe
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Adam Martin
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Brian Hook
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game rayzam
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Batir
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Freeman, Jeff
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Luke Carruthers
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Freeman, Jeff
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game shren
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Marian Griffith
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Madrona Tree
- Worlds targets EQ in its patent battle Jessica Mulligan
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Greg Munt
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) John Buehler
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) John Buehler
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Tchrin .
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Corey Crawford
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Travis Nixon
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Koster, Raph
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Richard A. Bartle
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Jesse van Herk
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Vincent Archer
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Nathan F.Yospe
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) SeronisROTv3@aol.com
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) J C Lawrence
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Lars Duening
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Jeremy Noetzelman
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) rayzam
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Matt Mihaly
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Jeremy Noetzelman
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Ben Sizer
- Innovation restrictions (was: Information sharing) Koster, Raph
- OOC functionality (was: I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game designers]) Greg Munt
- Morality in Game Design (was: Logical MUD Areas) Scion Altera
- Morality in Game Design (was: Logical MUD Areas) John Buehler
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game Freeman, Jeff
- Innovation restrictions Corey Crawford
- Innovation restrictions John Buehler
- Innovation restrictions Richard A. Bartle
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Where are we now?)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Immersiveness - good or bad? Adam Martin
- Immersiveness - good or bad? John Buehler
- Immersiveness - good or bad? Matt Mihaly
- Immersiveness - good or bad? Kwon Ekstrom
- Community Goals (was: I Want to Forge Swords.) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Community Goals (was: I Want to Forge Swords.) Eli Stevens
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database Chambers
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database Bryce Harrington
- The effects of object oriented servers on the itemdatabase brianleeprice@hotmail.com
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game des Auli
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Sie Ming
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Hulbert, Leland
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Marian Griffith
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Phillip Lenhardt
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Derek Licciardi
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Koster, Raph
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Adam Martin
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Vincent Archer
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Andrew Barratt
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Sw ords) Koster, Raph
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Matt Chatterley
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Alex Kay
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Brian Hook
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Vincent Archer
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Alex Kay
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) rayzam
- Locations vs Social Spaces (was: I Want to Forge Swords) Bruce
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Bruce
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Chris Gray
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Adam Martin
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems brian price
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems Bruce
- [TECH] monitoring RMI-type systems brianleeprice@hotmail.com
- MUDs, cellphones and mobile players... Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- MUDs, cellphones and mobile players... Christopher Allen
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database (Long) Derek Licciardi
- The effects of object oriented servers on the item database (Long) Chambers
- Black & White on Radio Timothy Dang
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Mathue Moyer
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Derek Licciardi
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Madman Across the Water
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Derek Snider
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Lars Duening
- [OT] Re-releasing old games w/ new graphics Adam Martin
- The ethics of violence thread J C Lawrence
- UO Volunteer Programs Closed AR Schleicher
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Re:Where are we now?)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Greg Munt
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Freeman, Jeff
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Phillip Lenhardt
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Bryce Harrington
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Bryce Harrington
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Kwon Ekstrom
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Adam Martin
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Marc Hernandez
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Chambers
- User interface design [was: Where are we now?] Adam Martin
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Greg Munt
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] F. Randall Farmer
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Matt Mihaly
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] Greg Munt
- It's just a game (?) [was: Information sharing] F. Randall Farmer
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game McManus, Susan
- I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game J C Lawrence
- [DGN] Moral responsibilities (was Logical MUD Areas) Mathue Moyer
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Bryce Harrington
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Gavin Doughtie
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Greg Munt
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Kwon Ekstrom
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Bruce
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Kwon Ekstrom
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Jared Nielsen
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence brian price
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Alex Kay
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence Derek Licciardi
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Where are we now?)) Koster, Raph
- Characters or Pets? (I Want to Forge Swords. [Another letter to game) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [Tech] Overlapped I/O Chambers
- [Tech] Overlapped I/O Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [MUD-Dev][DGN] encouraging quick-start community for newbies Adam Martin
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Stuart
- [OT] Taking things too far. F. Randall Farmer
- [OT] Taking things too far. Sayeed
- [OT] Taking things too far. Frank Crowell
- [OT] Taking things too far. Matt Mihaly
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Stuart
- [OT] Taking things too far. John Buehler
- [OT] Taking things too far. Matt Mihaly
- [OT] Taking things too far. Matt Mihaly
- [OT] Taking things too far. Kevin Littlejohn
- [OT] Taking things too far. rayzam
- [OT] Taking things too far. Greg Munt
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Stuart
- [OT] Taking things too far. Adam Martin
- [OT] Taking things too far. F. Randall Farmer
- [OT] Taking things too far. Dave Rickey
- [OT] Taking things too far. John Buehler
- [OT] Taking things too far. Kwon Ekstrom
- [OT] Taking things too far. Scott Roberts
- Multithreaded servers using objects Chambers
- Multithreaded servers using objects David Loeser
- Multithreaded servers using objects Chambers
- Musashi's Unbelievably Long Rantings Koster, Raph
- Where were we then? Richard A. Bartle
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events (Was Logical Mud Areas) Peter Yu
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events (Was Logical Mud Areas) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [OT] Will this list survive? Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [OT] Will this list survive? Taylor
- [OT] Will this list survive? Batir
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events (Was Logical Mud Areas) John W Pierce
- [Tech] MUDs, MORPGs, and Object Persistence [OT?] Adam Martin
- Emotional Responses to Traumatic Events Matt Mihaly
- MUD-DEv lists archives are currently broken claw@kanga.nu
- [BIZ] Randy's Resume F. Randall Farmer
- [BIZ] Randy's Resume F. Randall Farmer
- [BIZ] Randy's Resume Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- It's just a game (?) Trump
- WebServer fixed (kinda) J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Jussi 'Sulka' Haro
- Player run reputation system lhulbert@hotmail.com
- Player run reputation system shren
- Player run reputation system Travis Casey
- Player run reputation system Matt Mihaly
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system John Buehler
- Player run reputation system David Loeser
- Player run reputation system Sean Kelly
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system Sean Kelly
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system Sean K
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Timothy Dang
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Geoffrey A. MacDougall
- Player run reputation system Timothy Dang
- Player run reputation system Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system John Hopson
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system shren
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Player run reputation system Taylor
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Matt Mihaly
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system Sean Kelly
- Player run reputation system Jon Lambert
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system Phillip Lenhardt
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Trump
- Player run reputation system J Todd Coleman
- Player run reputation system McManus, Susan
- Player run reputation system Trump
- Player run reputation system shren
- Player run reputation system Valerio Santinelli
- Player run reputation system J C Lawrence
- Player run reputation system Andrew Reisse
- Player run reputation system Koster, Raph
- Player run reputation system Matt Mihaly
- [TECH] 2 papers on python in muds Bruce
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Dan Merillat
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. wrenner@uiuc.edu
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Dan Merillat
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Dave Rickey
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lo se your balance. Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Asheron's Call: An example of how easy it is to lose your balance. Vincent Archer
- DGN: shard growth patterns? mud-dev-admin@kanga.nu
- DGN: shard growth patterns? J C Lawrence
- DGN: shard growth patterns? Ray Cuadro
- DGN: shard growth patterns? rayzam
- Spaces or rooms? (Information sharing (was: Re:Wher are we now?)) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dragoness
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Vincent Archer
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Corey Crawford
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Rickey
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jessica Mulligan
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott John Buehler
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Travis Casey
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Dave Kennerly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Koster, Raph
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Trump
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jake Song
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Phillip Lenhardt
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Koster, Raph
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott shren
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Batir
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Marc Bowden
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Matt Mihaly
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Richard Aihoshi aka Jonric
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Frank Alexander
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Koster, Raph
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Freeman, Jeff
- [News] NCSoft + Richard Garriott Jessica Mulligan
- Lineage and Garriott Matt Mihaly
- Lineage and Garriott Dragoness
- The sad death of Nowheremom Zak Jarvis
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Bruce
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Adam Martin
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers John Buehler
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers J C Lawrence
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Dave Rickey
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Dave Rickey
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Marc Fielding
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Dave Rickey
- Jeff's Rant: A World Full of Wheel-Makers Brian Hook
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Jon Morrow
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Christopher Allen
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Christopher Allen
- business models william ralph renner
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Bruce
- business models Stephen Benz
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Christopher Allen
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Stephen Benz
- business models Martin Burke
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models william ralph renner
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models rayzam
- business models Stephen Benz
- business models shren
- business models Auli
- business models Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- business models Jason Salem
- business models Marc Bowden
- business models Jason Salem
- business models John Buehler
- business models shren
- business models Koster, Raph
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Koster, Raph
- business models Hulbert, Leland
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Koster, Raph
- business models Auli
- business models Steven Veltema
- business models Batir
- business models Vincent Archer
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Jon Morrow
- business models Dave Rickey
- business models Matt Mihaly
- business models Koster, Raph
- Paying Volunteers Update? Jon Morrow
- Request to mailing list MUD-Dev rejected Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- It's just a game (?) Ananda Dawnsinger
- It's just a game (?) Matt Mihaly
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Sharon Mock
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Dragoness
- [DGN?] It's just a game (?) Richard A. Bartle
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- Maintaining fiction. Travis Casey
Caliban Tiresias Darklock wrote:
> On Wed, 06 Jun 2001 18:38:11 -0400, Travis Casey
> <efindel@earthlink.net> wrote:
>> Anyone gambling and *expecting* to win is a fool. The games'
>> odds are in favor of the house, not of the players -- they have
>> to be, if the house is to make a profit.
> And likewise, as any casino owner will tell you, if the house is
> to make a profit -- people need to WIN. That's the incentive for
> all the *other* people to *keep* playing. If no people win, no
> people play. The ideal situation for a casino is to keep the
> AMOUNT of winnings low, and the APPEARANCE of winnings high.
Exactly. This doesn't change the point a bit, though -- that there
are many people who go gambling for fun, expecting that in all
likelihood, they're going to lose money. Those who like to gamble
and know this do things like decide how much they're willing to
lose, and ration their bets so they don't lose all of that the first
ten minutes they're in the casino.
In the same way, you can play a game where you'll eventually lose
your character for fun -- and if you know you want to play for a
certain amount of time, you can ration your risk.
>> You're also assuming that a player cannot "afford to lose" their
>> character. It's true that many players are strongly averse to
>> losing their character and having to start over. There are other
>> players, however, who simply view it as a part of the challenge
>> of the game.
> But it has out-of-game consequences.
I never said it didn't. All I'm saying is that the consequences of
character death are acceptable to some players. Indeed, some
players will tell you, and honestly believe, that the game is less
fun without the possibility of losing their character.
> This may be offset almost completely with a PERMANENT character
> identification, separate from the character's name.
Which already exists -- the player's real name and background info.
I can tell you that I've gone around to people after I decided to
change characters and told them, "Hey, this is Travis. I used to be
playing [character X], but I've decided to make a different one."
The same thing happens moving from mud to mud -- I like to create a
new character on each mud I play, with a name that I use just on
that mud. If I run into someone I know from another mud, I just tell
them, "I'm X on mud Y." That way I don't have to start rebuilding a
relationship with them from scratch.
Now, for an extrememly strong roleplaying mud, these might be bad
things -- but for most of us, I think they're acceptable.
>> If you want another example of "playing to lose", consider older
>> arcade video games, like Missile Command, Galaga, Pac-Man, etc.
>> No matter how good you are, you cannot play the game forever
>> without losing your "character" in the game. Yet people enjoyed
>> (and still do enjoy) playing those games anyways.
> False analogy.
> In these games, your character is the same at the end of the game
> as he was at the beginning.
Not true. In Galaga, you could gain the second ship and keep it --
making your character more powerful. Across the genre as a whole,
many video games have "powerups" of various sorts.
Further, one could say the same of some muds -- in a MOO-style mud,
for example, there's often no character advancement of any kind.
The only thing that changes about your character is his/her
relationships to other characters -- and those can often be
recovered easily with a new character, as I describe above.
> There is no investment in the character -- only in the score. Your
> character also has *several* lives (cities in "Missile Command"),
> and the game only ends when they are exhausted.
And? Permadeath does not leave out the possibility of multiple
lives -- it only implies that a final death is possible. Paper D&D,
for example, has the ability for characters to come back from the
dead, but also has permanent death.
> Successful gameplay adds more lives
As it effectively does in many RPGs as well -- how many first-level
D&D characters have access to any sort of resurrection magic? The
higher-level D&D characters are, the more likely they are to be able
to come back after dieing.
> , and gameplay is a single skill which is easily learned.
One could argue that the same thing is true in many RPGs, and even
moreso in many muds. Your knowledge of what works well and where
things are doesn't go away because your character died.
> Furthermore, the ONLY way you could lose a life would be if YOU
> made a mistake.
Supposing a perfect environment, yes. In the real world, though,
I've often lost lives in video games because someone bumped me, or I
suddenly had to sneeze or cough, or a loud noise distracted me for a
second. These sorts of things are part of why many people don't like
"twitch games".
For that matter, in some games, it's possible to get into situations
where it's simply not possible to survive. I've had it happen to me
before on the higher levels of Galaga. (When a wave of attackers
starts shooting to both sides of you, with their shot-streams
converging, it's often impossible to shoot them (because the ones
shooting at you are not directly above you) and impossible to dodge
(because dodging to either side is going to get you killed). All
you can do is wait the couple of seconds until the end.)
> In contrast, permadeath in MUDs means you have one and only one
> chance to invest a great deal of time and effort in developing a
> character through multiple difficult-to-learn skills and systems,
Not necessarily. As I mentioned above, permadeath does not have to
mean that there is *no* access to resurrection, just that it isn't
automatic. The fact that your character *can* die permanently
doesn't mean that *every* death has to be permanent.
(To use another example than D&D, in a cyberpunk mud I was working
on developing, we wanted to have some form of permadeath, but didn't
want to be too harsh. What we settled on was this:
- A dead character can be brought back to life, if the character
is taken to a hospital.
- Bringing a dead character back is only a probability, not a
certainty. The longer the time between death and the resurrection
attempt, and the worse the damage was, the lower the chance of
resurrection.
- Resurrection would also cost money. The first one would be
free, but after that, either the character would need to have the
money for it in an account (which the hospital would then access
and get the money) or someone else would have to be willing to
pony it up.
There were several goals here. One was to make it wise to adventure
in groups -- if you're alone, who's going to take your body to the
hospital? Another was to create an extra resource drain on
players. Another was some level of realism.
I would consider this to be permadeath, since once your character
has died and resurrection has failed, all you can do is make a new
character -- but it doesn't mean that you never get a second chance.
Only that chances after the first are probabilistic.)
> and that character can be trashed forever by a single bad result
> from a random number generator.
Not likely, unless you're wandering into very high-danger areas.
And, as noted above, that's possible in some video games as well.
> I can't even count the number of times I've wandered from a 10-15
> level area in a MUD to a 30-50 level area without the slightest
> indication of it, immediately encountering an aggro mob which
> stomps the character into the dirt.
IMHO, the problem here is not the possibility of permadeath -- it's
the setup of the mud. There should be some sort of warning there
(at least in the context of the game world -- e.g., dead bodies
around). Also, if you are going to have permadeath, it would be
wise to give players a way to back out of fights they can't win.
For example, others have proposed combat systems where it's
impossible to die on the first hit unless you're already fairly
badly wounded. Or combat systems where results other than death are
likely -- e.g., the character is likely to be knocked out first.
> With immediate resurrection and standard Diku-style corpse
> retrieval, this is a nuisance which may be rectified by jumping on
> a comm channel and asking for help (which fosters community). With
> permadeath, this becomes an irredeemable and unforgivable
> situation.
Only if *this* death is permanent. Again, permadeath doesn't have
to mean that *all* deaths are permanent.
> Permadeath, in short, has several problems which need to be
> addressed. But they CAN be addressed:
> - All character capabilities must be provided immediately. The
> chance of success may be very low, but all capabilities must
> nevertheless exist.
> - Learning the game must be easily done in less than a day's
> play. This allows the player to concentrate on THE GAME, not THE
> SYSTEM.
> - All randomness must be removed if at all possible. Consistency
> is more important than risk.
> - All transitions in difficulty must be clearly marked and only
> made by deliberate and informed player actions.
Why do all these things have to be done? D&D, for example, has none
of these, but has permadeath. I can see where these things can
mitigate permadeath, but I don't buy that *any* game that has
permadeath would need to do things this drastic.
I think you're presuming that a permadeath mud would have to have
the same emphasis on lethal combat that current muds do. If lethal
combat is more rare, than permadeath would be easier to deal with.
>> You have won something -- the ability to say that you were good
>> enough to get to where you could kill the dragon.
> Then why do it? Why not just look at the dragon, say "I could kill
> the dragon", and keep walking?
Because then you have no proof that you could. Is the idea of
wanting to prove your ability so foreign to you?
> It's basic human psychology. People are more afraid of failure and
> embarrassment than anything else -- even real-world death. If your
> game world does not provide a reward for success, the penalty for
> failure will make playing your game undesirable.
Sometimes success can be its own reward. And one of the good points
of having a community in a game is that the game doesn't have to
provide all the rewards -- the community can provide some. If I can
kill the dragon at a level where others consider it to be too
difficult, and I can let other people know that, then I can be
rewarded with respect, with people asking me how I did it, and other
such things.
>> Just as in Galaga, the only thing I ever "won" by playing was the
>> ability to say that I was good enough to get to X points.
> And that was your contract with the game: I will play for a short
> while and get points. In a MUD, your contract is somewhat
> different: I will play for a long time, spend untold hours
> studying the game world, attain membership in one or more
> communities, and amass a large quantity of items, gold, skills,
> and abilities.
Maybe that's your contract with a mud, but it's not mine. Mine is
more like:
I will have fun playing this game.
I can have fun playing in a game even with the possibility of losing
my character permanently. Maybe it's the fact that I played paper
RPGs for twelve years before my first mud, and permadeath was
possible in all of those. I've lost plenty of RPG characters.
Sometimes losing them was painful. Sometimes it was actually fun,
as I got to heroically sacrifice my character to save the rest of
the party. But I've never felt like losing my character meant that
all the time I spent playing him/her was wasted.
> If you die in a game of Galaga, you lose a quarter and ten
> minutes.
I haven't lost anything. I paid a quarter to be entertained for ten
minutes.
> If you die permanently on a pay-for-play MUD, you lose something
> more like sixty bucks and 120 hours (assuming an average of two
> hours play each day for two months at $30 a month).
Again, I haven't lost anything. I paid that money for
entertainment, and I was entertained.
> Before the obvious analogy of local PC adventure games is brought
> up, allow me to point out that such a game would be immediately
> drawn and quartered by the media and the public alike if you
> couldn't SAVE YOUR GAME. In a multiplayer environment, saved games
> are effectively impossible, so such a comparison is flawed from
> the start.
Why are saved games impossible? Consider, for example, a cyberpunk
game with a braintaping facility. You pay them X money, they take a
tissue sample from you and make a braintape. If your character
dies, they'll clone you from the sample and play the braintape back
into the clone. *Poof*, you get your character back, with all the
skills and abilities that he/she had when the braintape was made.
With an appropriate deposit, you can even have the clone outfitted
with the same cyberware you had before.
Now, this isn't *exactly* like a saved single-player game, since it
doesn't save the world as well, but it gives much the same
effect... and it could exist even in a game with permadeath.
--
|\ _,,,---,,_ Travis S. Casey <efindel@earthlink.net>
ZZzz /,`.-'`' -. ;-;;,_ No one agrees with me. Not even me.
|,4- ) )-,_..;\ ( `'-'
'---''(_/--' `-'\_) - Maintaining fiction. Caliban Tiresias Darklock
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