August 2000
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook William Katzell
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- Release of Blood Drops ver 0.1 adam@treyarch.com
- MUD Wimping -- An anecdote Zak Jarvis
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Dmitri Zagidulin
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Greg Underwood
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Nathan Clemons
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Tamzen Cannoy
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Matt Chatterley
- World Event Model adam@treyarch.com
- World Event Model Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Christian Loth
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matt Chatterley
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Sellers, Michael
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot rayzam
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot adam@treyarch.com
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Jon Callas
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Sanvean
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. adam@treyarch.com
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Bruce
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Matthew Mihaly
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Mud Evolution Koster, Raph
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Lord Ashon
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Neddy Seagoon
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Christoph Seifert
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Mud Metrics Justin Rogers
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Josh Rollyson
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Merillat
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Shiovitz
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Scion
- Law of Resource Congestion ens017@mizzou.edu
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Andy
- World Event Model (Christian Loth) Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] Christoph Seifert
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- Majesty (was: Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind) Chris Jacobson
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] (long/technical) Christoph Seifert
- Skotos News & Skotos @ Gencon Christopher Allen
- Harry Potter stuff Timothy Dang
- Harry Potter stuff Chris Gray
- Harry Potter stuff Matthew Mihaly
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Brett
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Koster, Raph
- Constraint as a Design Problem Christopher Allen
- an opportunity Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Norman Short
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Schubert, Damion
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Shawn L Johnston
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Vincent Archer
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants Dave Rickey
- UO rants John Buehler
> Dan Merillat
> Sent: Friday, August 25, 2000 6:01 AM
> > he murders the newbie? The newbie insulting the Lord is very much like
> > a PvP encounter. Why doesn't the Lord consider this as one of those
> > scenarios that simply adds to the spice of the game without having to
> > resort to murder? Being on the receiving end of a PvP encounter is never
>
> So it's ok to enforce your style of PvP on someone, but not ok for them
> to force theirs on you? The type of interaction you're talking about
> is having a group of morons follow you around heckling your every action.
> That "added spice" is ok, but defending your honor against a group
> of hoodlums is not? That's more of a self-centric view then the
> PK's themselves have.
Dan, I was playing contrarian there, attempting to use Matt's logic in opposition to his own
argument. As I've stated elsewhere, if you don't want people saying stuff to you that you find
harrassing, you should be able to have sanctions applied to those people. But the recognition of
what is potentially harrassing has to be established up front, and the sactions against those people
have to be controlled by the game. Otherwise, someone will harrass me, I kill their character and
they continue to harrass me. As has been stated on the topic of harrassment, it is OOC, while
killing a character is primarily IC.
> > fun, and that's why I don't like PvP worlds. In the end, only the most
> > powerful players are able to enjoy the experience. And those tend to be
> > the hardcore gamers. Like yourself.
>
> Without player interaction, you have a massively online singleplayer game.
> With player interaction, you have PvP. Even without combat, the players
> abuse the system to affect other players.
I absolutely agree with this. Two people standing in the same room are immediately in contention
for where to stand.
> > I certainly think that those who shoot their mouth off should have some
> > form of sanction applied to them. Do you really believe that any sane
> > government would condone execution for foul language? As I suggested
>
> Murder dosn't exist without death. Perminant death. Thus, without permadeath
> killing someone for slandering your character is acceptable, even admirable.
> They'll just respawn, like the goblin overseer. And you get a trophy or
> two out of it. And perhaps you'll spark a war, and that'll also be fun.
Take your 'murder doesn't exist without death' statement to the logical extreme. Your character
doesn't exist without a body. No body, no character. Obviously, this is all about a question of
degree of saction in the game world. Death models vary, and I have proposed a temporarily-imposed
death penalty that is just like permadeath. That's more extreme than 'fall down and get up'.
As to whether a war is fun or not, that's the very focus of this discussion. Who's to say that a
war is what the players want?
> > The players are the monitors, but not the judge, jury and executioners.
>
> So who fills that role?
The first judge is the game. It decides what could possibly be a crime. The next judge is the
victim. If he's unhappy enough about what was done to him to loose the dogs of justice, he does the
appropriate in-game things to make that happen.
Included in 'the dogs' are player bounty hunters, who are authorized to use varying levels of force
to enforce the sanctions that are defined by the game. Non-lethal force to bring in thieves alive.
Lethal force to bring in murderers, dead or alive. And so on.
> > You believe that virtual communities are different than real life
> > communities. What you're missing is that a virtual community is simply
>
> He's correct. VCs resemble no RL community known to man. It's a brave
> new world.
My statement there has been massively misunderstood. Obviously I massively misstated what I
intended.
My assertion is that a virtual community is simply an extension of our reality. Real people are
playing the game at real computers. The community doesn't exist within the game world. It exists
in our world. That's why I say that virtual communities are no different tan real life communities.
It's like saying that a phone call produces a different self-contained community than the real
world. It's an extension of it.
> So what happens when EVERYONE is a lord, untouchable by anything but the
> hand of God itself? (And God is too busy keeping the universe running to
> take an interest in peasant raping or sport hunting of outcasts...)
>
> Add to that a magical sheild that prevents the other lords from harming you
> in any fashion. In fact, the only thing that stops this is having actions
> directly have conceqences.
I see. So a character can be in two places at once? All characters can lift mountains, invent new
species, and so on? The rules of these game worlds are voluminous. That's because they are coded
constructions of people who have to code something before it's possible. Digging a hole frequently
isn't permitted.
As to the assertion that everyone is a lord, that's a fundamental problem. Simutronics has been
talking about a game called Hero's Journey, predicated in the idea that every player is a hero. I
simply don't believe that. Unless the world is populated by so many NPCs that I feel like a hero
because I'm surrounded by non-heros all the time. Then we're back to the single player experience
of Diablo. In multiplayer games, we play with the other players' characters. The only thing that
matters is what our relative ability levels are. If we're all heros, then the effect of being a
hero is drastically diminished. We might as well all be peasants, trying to overthrow our dastardly
baron.
JB
- UO rants Ian Macintosh
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- UO rants Jeff Freeman
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Richard A. Bartle
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Zak Jarvis
- Object Representations? KevinL
- Object Representations? Lazarus
- Object Representations? Patrick Dughi
- Object Representations? Phillip Lenhardt
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Mordengaard
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Re:[gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) Christoph Seifert
- UO Virtues Schubert, Damion
- UO Virtues John Buehler
- Object Representations? Robert Zubek
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Joe Andrieu
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Bruce
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] John Buehler
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matthew Mihaly
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Michael Tresca
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Milne, Alistair
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ian Macintosh
- MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) Nathan Clemons
- Matching and Maximizing: How players choose between activities John Hopson
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Ananda Dawnsinger
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Crime Ben
- Cooperation vs Competition Ron Moore
- Cooperation vs Competition Jo Dillon
- [Moebius] MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) KevinL
- FW: UO rants John Buehler
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Lovecraft
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Shawn L Johnston
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Matthew Mihaly
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Zak Jarvis
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- Playerkilling Pacifists Matthew Mihaly
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- url for The Hundred Years War Ron Moore
- url for The Hundred Years War Marc Bowden
- [paper] The Sacred and the Virtual: Religion in Multi-User Virtual Reality Jon Lambert
- Avatar rights redux Koster, Raph
- Avatar rights redux Dave Rickey
- Holidays Jeff Freeman
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Brad Wyble
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Norman Short
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Warren Powell
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Fraud (was: UO rants) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Fraud (was: UO rants) John Buehler
- Transportation Ron Moore
- Transportation Madrona Tree
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) gmiller@classic-games.com
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) Erik Jarvi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Kristen L. Koster
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Patrick Dughi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Travis Casey
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Alex
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Lazarus
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Marc Bowden