August 2000
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook William Katzell
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- Release of Blood Drops ver 0.1 adam@treyarch.com
- MUD Wimping -- An anecdote Zak Jarvis
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Dmitri Zagidulin
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Greg Underwood
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Nathan Clemons
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Tamzen Cannoy
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Matt Chatterley
- World Event Model adam@treyarch.com
- World Event Model Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Christian Loth
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matt Chatterley
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Sellers, Michael
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot rayzam
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot adam@treyarch.com
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blindspot Shawn L Johnston
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot rayzam
----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthew Mihaly" <the_logos@achaea.com>
To: <mud-dev@kanga.nu>
Sent: Friday, August 11, 2000 8:52 AM
Subject: Re: [MUD-Dev] Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind
spot
> On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, rayzam wrote:
>
> > Why does an admin need to make a persistant character? Why not make
a
> > test character. Since you know all the inside secrets, create a
character,
> > clearly labelled as a test character [i.e. Raytest], set it up to be
> > whatever level/class/skills/spells/etc you want to try out, clone up the
eq
> > you want. Test it out. Change it to another race/level/class/etc as
> > appropriate. This lets you test out anything in your game. But without
the
> > issue of having a long built up character, interacting with non
wiz-staff
> > players, and from the advantage of knowing the game from the inside out.
>
> This does not let you test out anything in your game. It lets you make
> only strictly quantifiable comparisons. It doesn't tell you a thing about
> what the experience of being a player in your mud is like. For instance,
> I've created test characters like you described in Achaea to test the
> combat out. That more or less works, though it's not perfect, as I
> supplied my test character (my avatar) with every piece of 'common'
> equipment, etc. Few players are always that prepared, however.
>
> However, a test character absolutely cannot be used to test other large
> portions of the game. I can hardly try to enter the worlds of competitive
> politics or competitive economics with a test character, because I can't
> just hand my character the single most desired attribute: the respect of
> other players. My avatars were respected of course, and likely if I had
> said, "Ok, citizens of Ashtan, I am going to run for the position of
> Archon, and I wish to be appointed to the position of city chancellor." I
> would have gotten those positions, but aside from the fact that this would
> seem (and would be) completely unfair to the players competing for those
> positions with me, it wouldn't have simulated the experience of trying to
> gain the respect of other players (which is the route to winning election
> and appointment to the various political offices).
But I don't see how you need to test gaining the respect of other
players. The point of the original thread was about admins not playing their
game and therefore wimping or nerfing the game. There may be a point to
trying to gain a political office by having a character that is not known to
be an alternate of your admin, and having that character run for election.
But I don't see how that negates my suggestion of having a playtester
character to test the skills/spells/abilities in the game, which is
necessary, as many have pointed out, to determine balance, and keep contact
with the game. Politics is a game in and of itself, the playing of which
depends on the people involved, but that's an entirely different thread :)
>
> Likewise with competitive economics. Players would not (rightfully so)
> accept me creating a test character, giving him a shop in a prime
> location, creating things out of the blue for him to sell, and giving him
> money to pay his property tax. Even if they would accept it, it doesn't
> test the experience of having to make enough money to rent or purchase a
> shop and then turn a profit so that you can pay the property tax on the
> shop.
>
>
> > Assuming you know how your game works, you can succeed at it better,
> > faster with more goodies [eq/quests/points/whatever is used to note
> > achievement], than others. In my opinion that makes it unfair to be
> > considered a 'player', hence the category tester, playtester, whatnot.
And
> > the test characters should be specifically ignored from the achievement
> > lists. I.e., we have a top player [based on experience only] list, test
> > characters aren't on it. Or the top questors, or the top explorers.
Anything
> > that actually compares player vs player.
>
> That depends on what you consider success. I, personally, have never given
> a damn when playing muds about being the top explorer or top questor or
> having the most xp, etc etc. Those all seem like relatively trivial
> accomplishments compared with what I view as the most desired commodity:
> the respect of other players. I am sure I'm not alone in this either.
> Achaea's most respected players have never been the ones who were
> quantifiably the 'best'. They weren't the top ranked in xp, they didn't
> know the most quests, etc. They did, however, win the respect of the
> playerbase for their eloquence, their strength of personality, their
> maturity and intelligence, and so on. These have only ever been
> quantifiable (in Achaea at least) in the sense that these players
> _usually_ were the most visible and successful politicians. Many of them
> were not even competent at PvP combat (which is a matter of, among other
> things, actually having skill in Achaea rather than just a function of who
> has the best equipment and the most xp).
>
Again, that's fine, and all true. Respect of other players is an
achievement. I don't see how it relates to wimping/nerfing, that requires it
to be playtested especially in comparison to skills/spells/abilities. In
essence, I heartily disagree when you suggest that playtesting these
abilities 'does not let [me] test anything in the game'. Perhaps I'm
misunderstanding your point, or at least how it relates to this thread?
Rayzam - Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Jon Callas
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Sanvean
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. adam@treyarch.com
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Bruce
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Matthew Mihaly
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Mud Evolution Koster, Raph
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Lord Ashon
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Neddy Seagoon
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Christoph Seifert
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Mud Metrics Justin Rogers
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Josh Rollyson
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Merillat
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Shiovitz
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Scion
- Law of Resource Congestion ens017@mizzou.edu
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Andy
- World Event Model (Christian Loth) Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] Christoph Seifert
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- Majesty (was: Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind) Chris Jacobson
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] (long/technical) Christoph Seifert
- Skotos News & Skotos @ Gencon Christopher Allen
- Harry Potter stuff Timothy Dang
- Harry Potter stuff Chris Gray
- Harry Potter stuff Matthew Mihaly
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Brett
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Koster, Raph
- Constraint as a Design Problem Christopher Allen
- an opportunity Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Norman Short
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Schubert, Damion
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Shawn L Johnston
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Vincent Archer
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants Ian Macintosh
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- UO rants Jeff Freeman
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Richard A. Bartle
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Zak Jarvis
- Object Representations? KevinL
- Object Representations? Lazarus
- Object Representations? Patrick Dughi
- Object Representations? Phillip Lenhardt
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Mordengaard
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Re:[gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) Christoph Seifert
- UO Virtues Schubert, Damion
- UO Virtues John Buehler
- Object Representations? Robert Zubek
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Joe Andrieu
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Bruce
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] John Buehler
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matthew Mihaly
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Michael Tresca
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Milne, Alistair
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ian Macintosh
- MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) Nathan Clemons
- Matching and Maximizing: How players choose between activities John Hopson
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Ananda Dawnsinger
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Crime Ben
- Cooperation vs Competition Ron Moore
- Cooperation vs Competition Jo Dillon
- [Moebius] MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) KevinL
- FW: UO rants John Buehler
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Lovecraft
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Shawn L Johnston
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Matthew Mihaly
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Zak Jarvis
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- Playerkilling Pacifists Matthew Mihaly
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- url for The Hundred Years War Ron Moore
- url for The Hundred Years War Marc Bowden
- [paper] The Sacred and the Virtual: Religion in Multi-User Virtual Reality Jon Lambert
- Avatar rights redux Koster, Raph
- Avatar rights redux Dave Rickey
- Holidays Jeff Freeman
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Brad Wyble
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Norman Short
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Warren Powell
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Fraud (was: UO rants) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Fraud (was: UO rants) John Buehler
- Transportation Ron Moore
- Transportation Madrona Tree
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) gmiller@classic-games.com
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) Erik Jarvi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Kristen L. Koster
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Patrick Dughi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Travis Casey
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Alex
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Lazarus
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Marc Bowden