August 2000
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook William Katzell
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- Release of Blood Drops ver 0.1 adam@treyarch.com
- MUD Wimping -- An anecdote Zak Jarvis
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Dmitri Zagidulin
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Greg Underwood
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Nathan Clemons
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Tamzen Cannoy
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Matt Chatterley
- World Event Model adam@treyarch.com
- World Event Model Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Christian Loth
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matt Chatterley
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Sellers, Michael
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot rayzam
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot adam@treyarch.com
On Wed, 9 Aug 2000, rayzam wrote:
> Why does an admin need to make a persistant character?
Once again, I'll mention that in my experience, the very best muds are
the ones where its creators play at least occasionally. The muds which
have the most power imbalances and other design problems are those where
the creators are distant from the players and would never stoop to creating
'real' characters, but instead just create quick test characters to make
sure that their newly implemented spell or skill doesn't crash the mud.
I will admit that this is anecdotal evidence. I can only claim to have
witnessed this phenomenon closely (one way or the other) on perhaps a dozen
muds, and from a distance on another dozen or two. Out of the thousands
of muds that have existed over that time period, this is a pretty small
sample.
However, this is also consistent with my own experiences building and coding
for several muds, including a currently running one. It's also consistent
with my six years of experience in the field of commercial video games
(which encompasses consoles, arcade games, and PC games).
It is very hard for me to dismiss all of this direct evidence based on
a few claims which no one even seems to be willing to support with
real-life data. (One person gave an example that I felt was almost
irrelevant to the discussion, but Brian nicely refuted it.)
> This lets you test out anything in your game. But without the
> issue of having a long built up character, interacting with non wiz-staff
> players, and from the advantage of knowing the game from the inside out.
...which is *entirely* different from knowing it from the outside in.
That's why you have to play a real character.
> Assuming you know how your game works, you can succeed at it better,
> faster with more goodies [eq/quests/points/whatever is used to note
> achievement], than others.
True to a certain extent. You don't have to spend the time getting
comfortable with the interface, or learning where the hidden doors with
hidden eq are located, or guessing at what a certain spell or skill might
do.
You are wrong, however, in thinking that you will be the best player of
your game just because you created it. Players will always think of
new angles that you never considered, because you know the game inside
out.
> In my opinion that makes it unfair to be
> considered a 'player', hence the category tester, playtester, whatnot.
<shrug>
You can call it whatever you like. Certainly it's not reasonable to expect
the creator of a game to play it the same way as a 'true' player.
My style, when playing my own games, and especially my own muds, is
very laid back. I like joining groups and just following, keeping a low
profile, and seeing how the other players approach things. And I fool
around a lot, trying to do things in ways other than what I intended
when I designed the game.
Yes, I usually do well, but I've never been able to compete with the top
players in the game. It's actually quite amusing; as an admin I watch
from "on high" as solo characters tear through areas that are supposed
to be incredibly tough, so I think, "Damn, I need to make that area harder."
Then I come through with my own characters, and realize that it IS
extremely difficult - the best players just make it look easy.
> And
> the test characters should be specifically ignored from the achievement
> lists. I.e., we have a top player [based on experience only] list, test
> characters aren't on it. Or the top questors, or the top explorers. Anything
> that actually compares player vs player.
Agreed on that point.
Although - another thing that the admin can do is show that there's more
than one way to do things. Players tend to discover the most efficient
route to a certain goal rather quickly, and then all successive players
follow that same route blindly. An admin can step in and create an
off-the-wall character - perhaps a character class that most people believe
to be underpowered - and show that there's other routes, perhaps even
betters ones.
Or, in many cases - you, the admin, realize that the class that everyone
complains about being underpowered actually IS underpowered. You know
firsthand, instead of relying on player griping, which we all know
tends to be highly inaccurate.
> It's true that its a huge time commitment to try to play every
> combination, but thats only if you work up from teh bottom. Take a snapshot
> of any situation you want to know about from the player's perspective. And
> that'll also help keep from biasing the game towards the character you are
> progressing, because your progression no longer has a measurement or an
> investment in time.
One thing I'll mention is that it's much easier for me to play my own
mud because I created it to require a small time investment. Most of my
characters have less than ten hours logged on them, and most of that
was just goofing off while at work. Some muds require you to spend dozens
or even hundreds of hours to have a character that can do the "good" stuff;
but of course, I dislike those kinds of muds as a player as much as I do as an
admin.
I, just like most admins, want to spend most of my time improving the game.
But a certain amount of time invested into playing can make a big difference
in how you perceive your own game, and (in most cases) allow you to make it
better.
Adam - Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot adam@treyarch.com
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Jon Callas
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Sanvean
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. adam@treyarch.com
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Bruce
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Matthew Mihaly
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Mud Evolution Koster, Raph
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Lord Ashon
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Neddy Seagoon
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Christoph Seifert
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Mud Metrics Justin Rogers
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Josh Rollyson
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Merillat
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Shiovitz
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Scion
- Law of Resource Congestion ens017@mizzou.edu
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Andy
- World Event Model (Christian Loth) Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] Christoph Seifert
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- Majesty (was: Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind) Chris Jacobson
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] (long/technical) Christoph Seifert
- Skotos News & Skotos @ Gencon Christopher Allen
- Harry Potter stuff Timothy Dang
- Harry Potter stuff Chris Gray
- Harry Potter stuff Matthew Mihaly
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Brett
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Koster, Raph
- Constraint as a Design Problem Christopher Allen
- an opportunity Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Norman Short
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Schubert, Damion
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Shawn L Johnston
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Vincent Archer
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants Ian Macintosh
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- UO rants Jeff Freeman
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Richard A. Bartle
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Zak Jarvis
- Object Representations? KevinL
- Object Representations? Lazarus
- Object Representations? Patrick Dughi
- Object Representations? Phillip Lenhardt
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Mordengaard
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Re:[gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) Christoph Seifert
- UO Virtues Schubert, Damion
- UO Virtues John Buehler
- Object Representations? Robert Zubek
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Joe Andrieu
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Bruce
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] John Buehler
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matthew Mihaly
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Michael Tresca
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Milne, Alistair
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ian Macintosh
- MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) Nathan Clemons
- Matching and Maximizing: How players choose between activities John Hopson
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Ananda Dawnsinger
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Crime Ben
- Cooperation vs Competition Ron Moore
- Cooperation vs Competition Jo Dillon
- [Moebius] MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) KevinL
- FW: UO rants John Buehler
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Lovecraft
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Shawn L Johnston
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Matthew Mihaly
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Zak Jarvis
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- Playerkilling Pacifists Matthew Mihaly
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- url for The Hundred Years War Ron Moore
- url for The Hundred Years War Marc Bowden
- [paper] The Sacred and the Virtual: Religion in Multi-User Virtual Reality Jon Lambert
- Avatar rights redux Koster, Raph
- Avatar rights redux Dave Rickey
- Holidays Jeff Freeman
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Brad Wyble
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Norman Short
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Warren Powell
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Fraud (was: UO rants) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Fraud (was: UO rants) John Buehler
- Transportation Ron Moore
- Transportation Madrona Tree
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) gmiller@classic-games.com
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) Erik Jarvi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Kristen L. Koster
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Patrick Dughi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Travis Casey
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Alex
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Lazarus
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Marc Bowden