August 2000
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook William Katzell
- Pfile Wiping: was The Player Wimping Guidebook Koster, Raph
- Release of Blood Drops ver 0.1 adam@treyarch.com
- MUD Wimping -- An anecdote Zak Jarvis
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Dmitri Zagidulin
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Greg Underwood
- Responses to the Mudwimping article Nathan Clemons
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
I was talking with Adam (adam@treyarch.com) on his server and wanted to
post the log of it. I've replaced the "[character]/you OOC" with just
"Peter/Adam:" for readability- all other typos and such are preserved
except where I made one edit (it's noted in the text).
It's not just about the wimping/wiping issue, but a problem I've seen
on mud-dev in my admittedly short time. This is mostly just me ranting
because, dammit, I have strong feelings about this issue- but please
take it as such, I'm not trying to personally attack or hurt anyone.
Peter: 'Thanks for the release of the tasks code... I'm going to be
playing with it a bit.'
Adam: 'nods, let me know how it works out for you'
Peter: 'Probably poorly, I'm new to server code <g>'
Adam: 'egad'
Adam: 'well it's pretty simple in concept, but it is a rather large
mindset shift from the typical taskless system'
Peter: 'Well, it beats being one of the mud-dev's who have shown (on
this wiping issue) that they have no idea what it is to play muds...'
Peter: 'What was that? A paradigm shift? <g>'
Adam: 'er, if you will'
Adam: 'what do you mean about the wiping?'
Peter: 'How many admins were shocked and appalled that it happened. It's
like the people with no street smarts who area amazed that they just got
muds [I meant "mugged"]- it's like this amazing blind spot of knowledge.
I want to grab them and shake them and say,'
Peter: 'Don't you play any games? Haven't you ever? Don't you know the
mystery of them, the fun, their greatnesses and tradgedies?'
Adam: 'hehe'
Peter: 'It's like the most they've ever played was testing the servers
they've coded...'
Adam: 'yeah, i do wish we had more hardcore players on the list'
Adam: 'i've tried to convince a few friends, but they are too busy
mudding :)'
[I've here clipped me flaming someone and Adam's response. I was
not-nice and this added nothing.]
Adam: 'i may have suffered from a bit of that when i joined the list'
Adam: 'although hopefully i didn't make quite the fool out of myself
that he ccurrently is...'
Peter: 'I've been trying to think of a nice way to say, "Well, fucking
duh, go out and play! Get out of your ivory tower! We play games down
here and you should join us here in the real world!" But so far words
have failed me.'
Adam: 'nod, they'll tell you that they are too busy coding to play'
Adam: 'it's an easy trap to fall into'
Peter: 'Ugh, how can you code if you don't know what's fun?'
Adam: 'I develop games both as my job and as my hobby, and I know how
easy it is to get caught up in your own stuff all the time and never sit
down to play games'
Peter: 'I mean, these guys build huge political systems which, yes, are
nifty. But their games aren't fun to play. The servers run by people who
run them for love of the game will put in code to actually play with the
world and other people and it just works.'
Adam: 'the other thing I have long argued on the list is that the best
muds are the ones where the admin have player characters that they play
and actually enjoy'
Adam: 'nod'
Adam: 'well, I take it as a lesson...try to keep in touch with why we're
making these things in the first place'
Peter: 'And I'll choose the mud with no general dircetion or vision
that's actually fun to play because the admins know what it is to play
every time over the grand concept mud that leaves in the stock code for
wearing eq and getting around.'
Adam: 'yep'
Adam: 'well, hopefully there is a balance there'
Adam: 'you have a grand concept which makes your game different and
unique, but also the player's-eye view that allows you to work on stuff
that truly adds to the gameplay'
[I drop and re-connect]
Peter: 'Shit, my client just died horribly. Are you logging this? I'd
like to post this to the list.'
Peter: 'Adam?'
Adam: 'er yeah, i can paste it into another buffer'
Peter: 'Mail it to me and I'll clean it up and post it- I'll leave your
name off if you like, but I think that's the best I've done of stating
what I feel. It's not quite right, but it's as good as it's going to
get.'
For the record, my personal stance on wimping and wiping is fairly
simple (and enlightened, I guess).
Wimping: I'll be a little grumpy if my character gets stuff taken away
from them, but unless it completely destroys game balance rather than
help restore it I'll be OK in an hour or so. If another
guild/clan/whatever gets boosted to help balance things out I may be a
little jealous- but again, no big deal- I can play another character if
I want.
Wiping: probably not a big deal. If the mud is fun and if the admins
had a halfway decent reason, I'll come back and play more. Maybe even
more because I can start from scratch and do-over the stuff I messed up last time. - wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Tamzen Cannoy
- wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Matt Chatterley
- World Event Model adam@treyarch.com
- World Event Model Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model Josh Rollyson
- World Event Model Christian Loth
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Patrick Dughi
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matt Chatterley
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Peter
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Sellers, Michael
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot rayzam
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot adam@treyarch.com
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind spot Matthew Mihaly
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Jon Callas
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Sanvean
- Pfile Wiping, etc. rayzam
- Pfile Wiping, etc. adam@treyarch.com
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Bruce
- linked worlds (was: On Lockless Threading and X/Open XA) Matthew Mihaly
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Mud Evolution Koster, Raph
- Mud Evolution rayzam
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Lord Ashon
- Unique Items (was MUD Wimping) Neddy Seagoon
- Pfile Wiping, etc. Christoph Seifert
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Mud Metrics Justin Rogers
- Mud Metrics rayzam
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Josh Rollyson
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Merillat
- Law of Resource Congestion Dan Shiovitz
- Law of Resource Congestion Christian Loth
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Scion
- Law of Resource Congestion ens017@mizzou.edu
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Matthew Mihaly
- Law of Resource Congestion Patrick Dughi
- Law of Resource Congestion Nathan F. Yospe
- Law of Resource Congestion Andy
- World Event Model (Christian Loth) Christoph Seifert
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] Christoph Seifert
- Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind Hess, Ian W {Ian}
- Majesty (was: Player-admins, was wimping/wiping and the big blind) Chris Jacobson
- World Event Model [Josh Rollyson] (long/technical) Christoph Seifert
- Skotos News & Skotos @ Gencon Christopher Allen
- Harry Potter stuff Timothy Dang
- Harry Potter stuff Chris Gray
- Harry Potter stuff Matthew Mihaly
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Brett
- Child animations in MUDs (UO) Koster, Raph
- Constraint as a Design Problem Christopher Allen
- an opportunity Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Norman Short
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Schubert, Damion
- UO rants Wes Connell
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Shawn L Johnston
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Vincent Archer
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants Ian Macintosh
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Matthew Mihaly
- UO rants Tess Lowe
- UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- UO rants Jeff Freeman
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Dan Merillat
- UO rants John Buehler
- UO rants Chris Lloyd
- UO rants Richard A. Bartle
- UO rants Koster, Raph
- UO rants Zak Jarvis
- Object Representations? KevinL
- Object Representations? Lazarus
- Object Representations? Patrick Dughi
- Object Representations? Phillip Lenhardt
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Mordengaard
- Reality vs Fantasy (was Law of Resource Congestion) Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- [gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Re:[gods] Player Representatives? (fwd) Christoph Seifert
- UO Virtues Schubert, Damion
- UO Virtues John Buehler
- Object Representations? Robert Zubek
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Joe Andrieu
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Bruce
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] John Buehler
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matthew Mihaly
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Matt Chatterley
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Michael Tresca
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Dan Merillat
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ben
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Milne, Alistair
- Reputation & Trust Circles [was UO rants] Ian Macintosh
- MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) Nathan Clemons
- Matching and Maximizing: How players choose between activities John Hopson
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Ananda Dawnsinger
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matt Chatterley
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Matthew Mihaly
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Zak Jarvis
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Vincent Archer
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- PK vs. PvP (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Crime Ben
- Cooperation vs Competition Ron Moore
- Cooperation vs Competition Jo Dillon
- [Moebius] MXP/Extending MUD Technologies (Was Object Representations?) KevinL
- FW: UO rants John Buehler
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Lovecraft
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Shawn L Johnston
- Reincarnation instead of Resurrection Matthew Mihaly
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Zak Jarvis
- PvP solutions WAS: UO rants Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- Playerkilling Pacifists Matthew Mihaly
- Playerkilling Pacifists Michael Tresca
- url for The Hundred Years War Ron Moore
- url for The Hundred Years War Marc Bowden
- [paper] The Sacred and the Virtual: Religion in Multi-User Virtual Reality Jon Lambert
- Avatar rights redux Koster, Raph
- Avatar rights redux Dave Rickey
- Holidays Jeff Freeman
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Brad Wyble
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Norman Short
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Chris Lloyd
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Patrick Dughi
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Dan Merillat
- Transportation (was: UO rants) Warren Powell
- Transportation (was: UO rants) KevinL
- Fraud (was: UO rants) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Fraud (was: UO rants) John Buehler
- Transportation Ron Moore
- Transportation Madrona Tree
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) gmiller@classic-games.com
- time delays on PK (was UO rants) Erik Jarvi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Kristen L. Koster
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Patrick Dughi
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Travis Casey
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Alex
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Lazarus
- Copyright Question for the Hobbyists Marc Bowden