November 2000
- Walking Philip Loguinov, Draymoor
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #231 - 4 msgs Dr. Cat
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #231 - 4 msgs J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev digest, Vol 1 #231 - 4 msgs Koster, Raph
- Atomic functions Felix A. Croes
- Atomic functions Ben
- Atomic functions Christopher Allen
- Atomic functions Ben
- Atomic functions Felix A. Croes
- Atomic functions KevinL
- Atomic functions Felix A. Croes
- Atomic functions KevinL
- Atomic functions KevinL
- Mud Dev FAQ part II Marian Griffith
- Walking Robert Zubek
- Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos? Christopher Allen
- Articles & Columns at Skotos Christopher Allen
- skotos David Zimet
- skotos Christopher Allen
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Koster, Raph
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Marian Griffith
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" birgit.schulte@philips.com
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Norman Short
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Jeff Freeman
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" gmiller@classic-games.com
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Lars Duening
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Lars Duening
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Lars Duening
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Vincent Archer
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Paul Schwanz - Enterprise Services
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Vincent Archer
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Peter
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Vincent Archer
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" KevinL
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" KevinL
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Xuri
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" KevinL
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Rhys
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Justin Rogers
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Ted Milker
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Zak Jarvis
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Patrick Dughi
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Madrona Tree
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Madrona Tree
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Michael Tresca
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Jeff Freeman
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Jon Lambert
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" |Eric|
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Miroslav Silovic
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Corey Crawford
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" ghovs@ghovs.moo.ca
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Corey Crawford
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Marian Griffith
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Richard Tew
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Chris Gray
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Steve {Bloo} Daniels
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Richard Tew
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" msew
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" the_logos@www.achaea.com
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" geoffrey@yorku.ca
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" John Buehler
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" the_logos@www.achaea.com
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Geoffrey@yorku.ca
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Vincent Archer
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Jason Belhumeur
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Val Trullinger
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Lee Sheldon
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Robert Zubek
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Eric Rhea
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Wells, Thomas
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Travis Casey
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Richard Tew
- "An essay on d00dism and the MMORPG" Koster, Raph
- "Virtual" What? Dave Rickey
- Object Models Ben
- Object Models J C Lawrence
- Object Models Dmitri Zagidulin
- Object Models KevinL
- Object Models Tony Wooster
- Object Models david.l.smith@home.com
- Object Models KevinL
- Object Models Gavin Doughtie
- Object Models John Robert Arras
- Object Models KevinL
- Object Models Bruce
- Object Models Ben Chambers
- Object Models Bruce
- Object Models KevinL
- Object Models Gavin Doughtie
- Object Models KevinL
- Object Models Travis Casey
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Travis Casey
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Chris Gray
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Chris Gray
- Object Models olag@ifi.uio.no
- Object Models Miroslav Silovic
- Object Models Joe Andrieu
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Miroslav Silovic
- Object Models Miroslav Silovic
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Miroslav Silovic
- Object Models KevinL
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Miroslav Silovic
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Miroslav Silovic
- Object Models Bruce
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Bruce
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Phillip Lenhardt
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models olag@ifi.uio.no
- Object Models Travis Casey
- Object Models Miroslav Silovic
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models msew
- Object Models Russ Lewis
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Phillip Lenhardt
- Object Models Travis Nixon
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models msew
- Object Models Andy
- Object Models Christopher Allen
- Object Models Chris Gray
- Object Models Travis Casey
- Object Models Marc Bowden
- Object Models Miroslav Silovic
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Miroslav Silovic
- Object Models John Buehler
- Object Models Bruce
- Object Models John Buehler
- ADMIN: Lost posts J C Lawrence
- Multiple Inheritance (was: Object Models) Bruce
- Fanfic (Or: Why we can't all get along) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Fanfic (Or: Why we can't all get along) John Buehler
- Participatory Content (was Opinions (even harsh) on Castle Marrach by Skotos?) Christopher Allen
- Object Models (OO 101) Gavin Doughtie
- Consistent Characters (Was Remote client connection) John W Pierce
- Consistent Characters (Was Remote client connection) Marian Griffith
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) Mordengaard
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) Marian Griffith
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) KevinL
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) Joe Andrieu
- (no subject) Bruce
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) KevinL
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) KevinL
- (no subject) Dan Merillat
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- facist marketers / content controllers msew
- facist marketers / content controllers Dave Rickey
- And the lines blur between rl and games!!! msew
- "gossip" Josh Rollyson {dracus}
- Official announce of nevrax.org www site Vincent Archer
- Intersection of Fanfic & Participatory Content Christopher Allen
- A list of Content Creation Eric Rhea
- Refactoring (was Object Models) Gavin Doughtie
- PDA-esque devices used in gaming |Eric|
- Weather and Multiple Planets Greg Mitchell
- Weather and Multiple Planets rayzam
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Lee Sheldon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) rayzam
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matthew Mihaly
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) McQuaid, Brad
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) rayzam
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matthew Mihaly
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Davian
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Dave Rickey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matthew Mihaly
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Dave Rickey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Lee Sheldon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Lee Sheldon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) McQuaid, Brad
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Lee Sheldon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Madrona Tree
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Lee Sheldon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) msew
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Phillip Lenhardt
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Justin Hooper
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Dave Rickey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J C Lawrence
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Ananda Dawnsinger
> From: "John Buehler" <johnbue@msn.com>
>
> why do grief players do what they do and can they be actively
> dissuaded? Sneakily dissuaded? Stopped outright?
Why do grief players do what they do? A few reasons:
1. They are dissatisfied with the environment. Though it seems
possible that this can be solved by creating a "perfect"
environment, this is a fool's errand, especially since many
sources of dissatisfaction lie not in the environment but in the
individual experiencing it. You can minimize this issue by a)
providing as rich and stable an environment as possible [I sense a
followup question] and b) heavy moderation.
2. They have not successfully been integrated into the
environment. Unfortunately, it is impossible to create an
environment that will successfully integrate all who enter it --
the teenager and the adult, the brilliant and the dull, the
fundamentalist and the Satanist. The administration can pressure
the membership into welcoming newcomers, but the eventual solution
is, again, heavy moderation.
3. Their loyalty lies not with the environment but with another
environment (e.g. a cross-game guild). This is a relatively
recent variation on #2 above. One can "seduce" outlying members
into becoming fully engaged with the community, but the
administration will probably eventually have to ban the "gang"
causing the problem.
4. Their connection with the environment has been, or will be,
severed. This is why grief playing increases just before a pwipe
-- players have nothing to lose. If you avoid major transitions
(pwipes, moving servers, changes in fee structure) and swiftly and
cleanly ban those who must be removed from the community, this
issue can be minimized.
5. They are undergoing a life crisis that is affecting their
ability to behave in a socially appropriate manner. Since
compulsive participation in the community ["addiction"] can cause
a life crisis, designing an environment that does not breed
compulsive behavior will be very useful here. Heavy moderation
and intervention will be required to deal with other cases.
6. They suffer from a personality disorder (or, in rare
instances, psychosis) that affects their ability to behave in a
socially appropriate manner. Unfortunately, the most disruptive
personalities -- the histrionic, narcissistic, and borderline --
are the ones most difficult to treat. Not having any real
training in this area, I'm not sure what would be useful beyond
heavy moderation and removal of problem cases.
You might notice that "heavy moderation" is a running theme. IMO
heavy moderation is required to remove disruption by undesirable
elements. Other techniques (light moderation, self-moderation) reach
a more dynamic equilibrium -- there is more disruption, but the
community recovers more quickly.
I think it's a Law, or damn close to it: The less disruption that
occurs in a community, the less able the community is able to deal
with disruption when it does occur.
Next topic of discussion: How does one make heavy moderation scale to
environments with tens [hundreds] of thousands of users?
> Does it take elimination of anonymity?
I think this is a mythical totem infused with far more power than it
actually possesses, simply because it is unachievable. Not that it
wouldn't help -- and I think there is evidence that communities that
use "real names" tend to be more civil than those that rely upon
personae. But I don't think it's a panacea.
First, it's impossible to eliminate anonymity, because anonymity is a
relative thing. Somebody in another country is more anonymous than
somebody in your own. Somebody 3000 miles away is more anonymous than
somebody in your own state. Somebody who lives across town is more
anonymous than your next-door neighbor. The check-out clerk at the
supermarket is more anonymous than your co-worker. A casual
acquaintance is more anonymous than your best friend.
Second, membership in an online group is not mandatory. You can opt
out at any time. If your reputation follows you around cyberspace,
you can sell your modem. If your reputation follows you into real
life, you can change your job and/or move (though this gets rather
painful, true). The more optional one's membership is, the less one
is likely to value the opportunity for continued participation.
Third, identity is fluid -- not just online identity, but identity
IRL. Many states (including California and New York) allow you to
change your name without government intervention.
What it would take is more than mere elimination of anonymity. It
would require the ability to file effective restraining orders and to
effectively press charges against troublemakers. After all, some
griefers attend RL player gatherings, perhaps in the hopes that
somebody will try to punch them out!
> Some clever application of psychology?
I've seen psychology work beautifully against anti-social griefers
(PKers, gang members, etc.) If you apply just the right amount of
mockery and truth-telling at just the right time, you can turn enough
of the popular sentiment against them, and make them feel as though
it's no longer worth their while to stay in the game. Unfortunately,
it's only effective *after* things have reached the crisis point.
Before that point, the mockers and truth-tellers are perceived as
bullies, and the griefers end up in a stronger position than they
were.
One should be able to use psychology to more effectively manage
groups, but honestly this isn't an area I know enough about to
speculate.
> A cultural change?
"From each according to his ability, to each according to his need?"
That'd work...
IMO, anything that depends on a fundamental cultural change (and I
think at this point it's safe to say that the online culture isn't due
to sampling error, but is a reflection of [Western/American] culture
as a whole) is a utopia, and utopianism is a waste of time.
>> If grief playing were a MUD phenomenon, or even a gaming
>> phenomenon, there might well be compelling reason to believe that
>> there's a solution that nobody's found yet. It's not. "Grief
>> players" are a feature of online communities and groups in general.
>> Actually, they're a component of all communities and groups -- it's
>> just that restraining orders don't work too well online.
> Why, and what has to change to address it?
Explain to me how to stop a pack of privileged teenaged boys from
shooting pellet guns at elderly migrant workers, and I might be able
to tell you how to stop grief players online.
-- Sharon - Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Marian Griffith
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Tamzen Cannoy
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Timothy Dang
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) msew
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Ananda Dawnsinger
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Nathan F.Yospe
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Phillip Lenhardt
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Justin Hooper
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Justin Hooper
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Madrona Tree
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jeff Freeman
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) rayzam
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jeff Freeman
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jeff Freeman
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Klyde Beattie
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Hulbert, Leland
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jeff Freeman
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Madrona Tree
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Madrona Tree
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Justin Hooper
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Willowreed@aol.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Willowreed@aol.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J C Lawrence
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) msew
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Dave Rickey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J C Lawrence
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J C Lawrence
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Zak Jarvis
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Hulbert, Leland
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jeff Freeman
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jeff Freeman
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J. Coleman
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) msew
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Chris Lloyd
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) msew
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Chris Lloyd
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Marian Griffith
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) msew
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jon Lambert
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Koster, Raph
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Chris Lloyd
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Dan Shiovitz
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) shren
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Dave Rickey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) shren
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) the_logos@www.achaea.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) twm139@its.to
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Nixon
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Timothy Dang
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Michael Tresca
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Justin Hooper
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Holly Sommer
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Marian Griffith
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) msew
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Travis Casey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Joe Andrieu
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) S. Patrick Gallaty
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Daniel.Harman@barclayscapital.com
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Zak Jarvis
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Vanderbeck
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Matthew Mihaly
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) McQuaid, Brad
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Brian 'Psychochild' Green
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Vincent Archer
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Richard Tew
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Dave Rickey
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) J C Lawrence
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) John Buehler
- Interesting EQ rant (very long quote) Jon Lambert
- Dynamic Timelines Lord Ashon
- Dynamic Timelines |Eric|
- Dynamic Timelines Bruce
- Dynamic Timelines James Thomas
- Dynamic Timelines Travis Casey
- Neopets Matthew Mihaly
- Threads Ben Chambers
- Consistent Characters Jeremy Hovance
- Consistent Characters Travis Casey