November 1999
- Admin: Kanga.Nu has moved again J C Lawrence
- mud history Matthew Mihaly
- Physics Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Language Independence Article. Ben Greear
- Language Independence Article. Chris Turner
- Language Independence Article. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Language Independence Article. Cynbe ru Taren
- ADMIN: Archives are back again J C Lawrence
- Hilbert Curves [was: "[DGD] Rooms with Views" and "Physics"] Christopher Allen
- Hilbert Curves [was: "[DGD] Rooms with Views" J C Lawrence
- Re Hilbert Curves Cynbe ru Taren
- Re Hilbert Curves J C Lawrence
- Hilbert Curves [was: "[DGD] Rooms with Views" and Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Christopher Allen
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) J C Lawrence
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Miroslav Silovic
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Brandon J. Rickman
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- A simple plan for establishing a history. Aaron
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was R e: Hilbert Curves) Lo, Kam
- Server: Momoko J C Lawrence
- META: Successor to FAQ Maintainer Lo, Kam
- ADMIN: Library goof J C Lawrence
- Scripting in java... (was Momoko) Owen
- Majik (Was Hilbert Curves) Owen
- players who "take away from the game" msew
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Holly Sommer
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Holly Sommer
- players who "take away from the game" Balthazaar/BalthMURP
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Holly Sommer
- players who "take away from the game" David Bennett
- players who "take away from the game" Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- players who "take away from the game" Miroslav Silovic
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Koster, Raph
- players who "take away from the game" Koster, Raph
- players who "take away from the game" msew
- players who "take away from the game" Sellers, Michael
- players who "take away from the game" Daniel James
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Greg Miller
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Charles Hughes
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Charles Hughes
- players who "take away from the game" Jon A. Lambert
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Jon A. Lambert
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Marc Bowden
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Charles Hughes
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Charles Hughes
- players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" Miroslav Silovic
- players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" Holly Sommer
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Quzah
- players who "take away from the game" Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- players who "take away from the game" Quzah
- players who "take away from the game" Ronan Farrell
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Jon A. Lambert
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Miroslav Silovic
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Koster, Raph
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- History of Online Gaming, part III Koster, Raph
- [Lib] ADMIN: Library goof J C Lawrence
- Oh dear (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Costikyan's new report on online gaming Koster, Raph
- Costikyan's new report on online gaming Sellers, Michael
- Costikyan's new report on online gaming Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") J C Lawrence
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") Eli Stevens {Grey}
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") J C Lawrence
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") Cynbe ru Taren
- Neverwinter Nights Koster, Raph
- Neverwinter Nights Dundee
- Neverwinter Nights S. Patrick Gallaty
- Neverwinter Nights Trent Oster
- Neverwinter Nights Lee Sheldon
- Neverwinter Nights Sean Kelly
- Neverwinter Nights Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Neverwinter Nights Nathan F. Yospe
- Neverwinter Nights John Buehler
- Neverwinter Nights Travis Casey
- Neverwinter Nights Adam Martin
- associate producer/designer openings, and others: Maxis/EA Sellers, Michael
- MySQL as a MUD. Quzah
- MySQL as a MUD. Holly Sommer
- MySQL as a MUD. J C Lawrence
- MySQL as a MUD. J C Lawrence
- MySQL as a MUD. Ian Macintosh
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Sellers, Michael
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Holly Sommer
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Charles Hughes
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Quzah
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game" ) Sellers, Michael
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game" ) Matthew Mihaly
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Mik Clarke
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Ilya, Game Commandos
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Holly Sommer
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Balthazaar/BalthMURP
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Holly Sommer
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Balthazaar/BalthMURP
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Holly Sommer
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Adam Wiggins
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Jon A. Lambert
- ColdC/ColdCore Zelnar
- ColdC/ColdCore Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Miroslav Silovic
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game" ) Charles Hughes
- GEL -- A New Approach to Online Interactive 3D claw@kanga.nu
- New FAQ moderator Marian Griffith
- New FAQ moderator J C Lawrence
- Mud Dev FAQ Marian Griffith
- Random numbers (was: Physics) Eli Stevens {Grey}
- code base inquiry Ilya, Game Commandos
- code base inquiry Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- code base inquiry Andru Luvisi
- code base inquiry Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- code base inquiry Travis S. Casey
- code base inquiry Ben Greear
- code base inquiry cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- code base inquiry Mik Clarke
- code base inquiry Adam Wiggins
- code base inquiry Matthew D. Fuller
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Ben Greear
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Mik Clarke
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Robert Green
- code base inquiry Travis S. Casey
- code base inquiry Andru Luvisi
- code base inquiry Travis Casey
- code base inquiry Matthew D. Fuller
- code base inquiry Travis Casey
- code base inquiry Ben Greear
- code base inquiry Travis S. Casey
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry Ben Greear
- code base inquiry Travis S. Casey
- code base inquiry Ilya, Game Commandos
- code base inquiry Mik Clarke
- code base inquiry Adam Wiggins
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Lars Duening
- code base inquiry Travis S. Casey
- code base inquiry Ilya, Game Commandos
- code base inquiry cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- code base inquiry Travis Casey
- code base inquiry Lars Duening
- code base inquiry Colin Coghill
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Richard Woolcock
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Richard Woolcock
- code base inquiry Ben Greear
- code base inquiry Richard Woolcock
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Richard Woolcock
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Richard Woolcock
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry MichelleThompson
- code base inquiry Dundee
- code base inquiry Kristen L. Koster
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Bryce Harrington
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- code base inquiry Bryce Harrington
- code base inquiry adam@treyarch.com
- code base inquiry Bruce
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Miroslav Silovic
- code base inquiry Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry David Bennett
- code base inquiry Sellers, Michael
- code base inquiry Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- code base inquiry David Bennett
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry MichelleThompson
- code base inquiry David Bennett
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry David Bennett
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- code base inquiry Ilya, Game Commandos
- code base inquiry Colin Coghill
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Miroslav Silovic
- code base inquiry Joey Hess
- code base inquiry Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Mik Clarke
- code base inquiry Mik Clarke
- code base inquiry Andru Luvisi
- code base inquiry Andru Luvisi
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Ian Macintosh
- code base inquiry cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry Ilya, Game Commandos
- code base inquiry Adam Wiggins
- code base inquiry jerry@cc588591-b.twsn1.md.home.com
- code base inquiry Jeremy Noetzelman
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Laurel Fan
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Justin Rogers
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- MudWords.com J C Lawrence
- Library news J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Laurent Bossavit
- Languages for MUD drivers Joey Hess
- Languages for MUD drivers bruce@puremagic.com
- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers Laurent Bossavit
- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Ian Macintosh
- Languages for MUD drivers Greg Miller
- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Jo Dillon
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Greg Miller
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Laurent Bossavit
- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Laurent Bossavit
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- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers Greg Miller
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Ian Macintosh
- Mud hosting services Dundee
- Mud hosting services AR Schleicher
- Mud hosting services Dundee
- Mud hosting services AR Schleicher
- Mud hosting services Greg Miller
- Mud hosting services Dundee
- Mud hosting services Mik Clarke
- Mud hosting services J C Lawrence
- Mud hosting services Mik Clarke
- Mud hosting services Ian Macintosh
- Mud hosting services J C Lawrence
- Mud hosting services gunderwood@donet.com
- Matrix Laurent Bossavit
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Locke
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Koster, Raph
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Greg Miller
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku rnicoll@respc-jrn.res.st-andrews.ac.uk
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Wendy Winkler
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Admins as Mortals Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Admins as Mortals Holly Sommer
- Admins as Mortals Travis S. Casey
- Admins as Mortals Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Admins as Mortals Sellers, Michael
- Admins as Mortals PartyG2816@aol.com
- Admins as Mortals Mik Clarke
- Admins as Mortals Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Admins as Mortals J C Lawrence
- Admins as Mortals Travis S. Casey
- Admins as Mortals Koster, Raph
- Random numbers (was: Physics) J C Lawrence
- Urban Desire claw@kanga.nu
- Depth of realism Joe Kingry
- Depth of realism Ilya, Game Commandos
- Depth of realism Koster, Raph
- Depth of realism Mik Clarke
- Depth of realism Matthew Mihaly
- Depth of realism Marian Griffith
- Depth of realism Travis S. Casey
- Depth of realism Jo Dillon
- Depth of realism Marian Griffith
- Depth of realism Matthew Mihaly
- Depth of realism Wendy Winkler
- Depth of realism Travis Casey
- Depth of realism J C Lawrence
- Depth of realism J C Lawrence
- Depth of realism J C Lawrence
- Depth of realism Travis S. Casey
- Depth of realism J C Lawrence
- Depth of realism Jon A. Lambert
- Depth of realism Marian Griffith
- Depth of realism Jeremy Music
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Petri Virkkula
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Matthew Mihaly
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Marc Bowden
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) David Bennett
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Adam Wiggins
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) David Bennett
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Adam Wiggins
- Admin: Attribute your quotes J C Lawrence
- Muq V -1.46.0 release (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Petri Virkkula
- MUD client resources (was: Mud hosting services) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- MUD client resources (was: Mud hosting services) Greg Miller
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Ian Macintosh
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Mik Clarke
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD dri vers) Koster, Raph
- about MOO Ilya, Game Commandos
- (no subject) Michael Seifert
- (no subject) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (no subject) Mike Sellers
- (no subject) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (no subject) JC Lawrence
- (no subject) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (no subject) JC Lawrence
- (no subject) JC Lawrence
- (no subject) Marian Griffith
- (no subject) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (no subject) Chris Gray
- (no subject) Jon A. Lambert
- (no subject) Chris Gray
- (no subject) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (no subject) Alex Oren
- (no subject) Ilya, Game Commandos
- (no subject) Jon A. Lambert
- (no subject) Travis Casey
- (no subject) Dan Shiovitz
- (no subject) Travis S. Casey
- (no subject) Marian Griffith
- (no subject) Mik Clarke
- (no subject) J C Lawrence
- (no subject) The Eternal City
- (no subject) Travis Casey
- (no subject) Travis S. Casey
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) Joe Andrieu
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) Bruce
- (no subject) John Buehler
- (no subject) Ben Chambers
- (no subject) Dale Garnier-Wells
- (no subject) shren
- (no subject) Matt Mihaly
- (no subject) Travis Nixon
- Player statistics calculation B. Schulte
- Player statistics calculation Marc Bowden
- Player statistics calculation Adam Wiggins
- Admins as Mortals twist Ryan P.
- Admins as Mortals twist Darren Henderson
- Admins as Mortals twist Matthew Mihaly
- Admins as Mortals twist Darren Henderson
- Admins as Mortals twist Matthew Mihaly
- Admins as Mortals twist Dundee
- Admins as Mortals twist Matthew Mihaly
- Admins as Mortals twist AR Schleicher
- Admins as Mortals twist Jeremy Music
- Admins as Mortals twist J C Lawrence
- Admins as Mortals twist Koster, Raph
- Admins as Mortals twist Sellers, Michael
- Admins as Mortals twist Koster, Raph
- Admins as Mortals twist J C Lawrence
- Admins as Mortals twist Chris Jones
- Admins as Mortals twist msew
- Admins as Mortals twist Matthew Mihaly
- Admins as Mortals twist Greg Miller
- Admins as Mortals twist Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Admins as Mortals twist Marian Griffith
- Admins as Mortals twist Greg Miller
- Admins as Mortals twist Matthew Mihaly
- Admins as Mortals twist J C Lawrence
- Admins as Mortals twist Koster, Raph
- Admins as Mortals twist J C Lawrence
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Ian Macintosh
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Ian Macintosh
- Public Domain Client Ian Macintosh
- Public Domain Client Mik Clarke
- Public Domain Client Jeremy Music
- Public Domain Client Andrew Wilson
- Public Domain Client Mik Clarke
- Public Domain Client Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
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- Public Domain Client Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Public Domain Client Andrew Wilson
- Public Domain Client Laurent Bossavit
- Public Domain Client J C Lawrence
- Public Domain Client J C Lawrence
- Public Domain Client J C Lawrence
- MUD-Dev request rejected Greg Miller
- MUD-Dev request rejected J C Lawrence
- Re[4]: (no subject) Travis Casey
- Re[4]: (no subject) Koster, Raph
- Re[5]: (no subject) Travis Casey
- FAQ for gm-types? Dundee
- FAQ for gm-types? Charles Hughes
- FAQ for gm-types? Mik Clarke
- FAQ for gm-types? Christopher Allen
- FAQ for gm-types? J C Lawrence
- Re[6]: (no subject) Travis Casey
- FW: Re[6]: (no subject) Koster, Raph
- Re[5]: (no subject) Koster, Raph
- Re[5]: (no subject) Travis S. Casey
- Interesting links Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- CODE RELEASE: (client) SMM++ J C Lawrence
- authority and human nature Matthew Mihaly
- authority and human nature Koster, Raph
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Mik Clarke
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Sellers, Michael
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Sellers, Michael
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Sellers, Michael
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Mik Clarke
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Dan Shiovitz
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Joe Andrieu
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) J C Lawrence
On Mon, 6 Dec 1999 16:09:14 -0800
Sellers, Michael <MSellers@maxis.com> wrote:
> JC wrote:
>> ... The idea that the game world (or game designer for that
>> matter) is going to come up to me prior to every "dangerous"
>> section and warn me off (however subtlely), or ensure that I can
>> never trap myself without a means of escape is somehow deeply
>> offensive.
> To you.
Well, yes.
> I think I can safely say that you're in a tiiiiiny minority who
> feel that way.
I suspected as much.
> The idea that (as they say in the theatre) "a pistol placed on the
> mantel in the first act must be used by the third" is seen all
> throughout our culture's fiction. A corollary to that is that you
> don't make a pistol that no one's seen or talked about a central
> piece to the story. Doing that is deeply dissatisfying to most
> people.
Which is of course explicitly stated in things like The Craft of
Adventure or or standard writing/literature texts. The difference
however is that you are viewing a player's interaction with the game
as necessarily possessing some quality of a "story".
I disagree. I see all narrative, and thus story qualities in
MUDding as retrospective and often posthumous.
> So, in terms of the fiction created by our game worlds, it's not
> surprising that most people would find it unfair
> (dissatisfying/frustrating) to have the centerpiece of their story
> turn on an item or monster that they could not possibly have known
> exists. Some, of course, will find such uncertainty thrilling and
> anything else annoying and coddling; but most will not.
Which is also not the point I'm belabouring.
_IF_ the game is responsible for protecting and warning the player
in regard to all possible dangers of magnitude, several things
become interesting:
-- traps
-- ambushes
-- monsters found outside of their normal haunts
-- environmental conditions
-- externally caused state changes to local objects
Consider the example I posited a little later in that post:
So, the wandering Bands of Bubba, nasty headhunting brain bashing
villains that they are, have been magically transported into the
Village of Rue by a wayward wizard, and, just happen to meet up
with their dire enemies, Boffo's Brutes who are enjoying a spot of
pie at the local pub after losing their way due to a
disorientation spell.
Of course a battle royal ensues across the tradionally tranquial
streets and squares of Rue, that utopian dream of bucolic
simplicity, and our young newbie, knowing nothing of this, walks
into the middle of the fray, finds himself lost and both a head
shorter and dead, tho possibly not in that order.
Now this is explicitly a _different_ situation than the simple
instance of a room with three exits, two of which are death traps
(cf Craft of Adventure). Not to belabour the point, the difference
is between pre-designed game instances whicha re dangerous to the
player (the room with three exits), or happenstance occurances which
*might* be dengerous to the player.
Now the game designer has some obvious responsibilities in the
3ExitRoom, but what responsibilities does he have in the
BandsofBubba scenario?
Is the game designer excused from these responsibilities if the
situation is a player contrivance(taking blessful advantage of the
impossibility of catalog and detection) and only responsible when
the situation is pre-designed and/or world-explicit and not
world-implicit?
Shuld, upon the instance of that battle, a surrounding circle of
beggers and grizzledold men uttering warnings of dangers ahead
suddenly spring into existance surrounding the village?
>> "Life isn't always fair. Deal with it." We've all heard the
>> line. How true is that for our players?
> People play games as a diversion, escape, or for fun. Life isn't
> fair, and it often isn't fun. Why should our games follow the
> same restriction?
Using "fun" to cover "diverting, escapist, and fun":
Must a game be fun all the time?
What characterises or defines a "fun action"?
What is the "scope" of fun? Are some things fun only in the
larger view?
Are some actions fun solely in hindsight of prior actions, and are
they therefore of particular value?
If so, what advantage can and should be taken of these?
The Craft of Adventure and "Crimes Against Mimesis" both comment on
this, but not terribly usefully I feel.
Yes, games are enjoyed because they are "fun" in some manner.
That's not the question. The question is the depth of how invasive
the game designer's responsibility is for ensuring an aribitrary
player's "fun". This is in essence the tour-guide difference. Is
the game designer a tour guide, escorting the player in
semi-vicariousness thru the game world Disney-style, or is the game
designer closer to an absentee landlord who can be appealed to via a
static riddled phone line hidden in the basement?
>> At what point does our role as world designers change from
>> hand-holding tour guide to protagonist?
> IMO, the designer is *NEVER* the protagonist. The player is.
Umm, that was a particularly bad choice of words on my part. I'm
nto sure what the correct choice of words would be.
Taking the classical GM model as a base, the game designer holds an
ambiguous role. On the one hand he is bedevilling his players,
causing them strife, pain, and even death, challenging them,
tauntung them, playing games with and about them. On the other hand
he is their greatest ally against the scenaarioes he concocts --
they only survive and even prosper to the extent that he succours
them.
This leaves a duality:
On the one hand it is the player against the GM and game world,
and all the cards are in the GM's hands.
On the other hand it is the player and the GM against the game
world, and the GM is occassionally able to steal cards from the
world's hands.
Both models have aspects of truth. Neither would seem true across
the boards.
> The designer may sometimes supply the antagonist, but only very
> indirectly. If the puppeteer's hand shows, then it's not Punch
> whacking you, but the puppeteer.
Excellent point. The world is a proxy for the game designer, but
must never be seen to be a direct and personal expression of the
game designer as regards a particular player.
>> So, the wandering Bands of Bubba, nasty headhunting brain bashing
>> villains that they are, have been magically transported into the
>> Village of Rue by a wayward wizard, and, just happen to meet up
>> with their dire enemies, Boffo's Brutes who are enjoying a spot
>> of pie at the local pub after losing their way due to a
>> disorientation spell.
>>
>> Of course a battle royal ensues across the tradionally tranquial
>> streets and squares of Rue, that utopian dream of bucolic
>> simplicity, and our young newbie, knowing nothing of this, walks
>> into the middle of the fray, finds himself lost and both a head
>> shorter and dead, tho possibly not in that order.
> Allowing the young newbie into that situation at all is just poor
> writing, IMO. Or the game-design equivalent.
login: newbie
password: ********
You enter the game!
...
(Newbie goes exploring)
...
> l
Main Street: To the east lies the village square.
> e
A wizard is talking to a crowd of people:
"Okay, I'll teleport you all to Rue. Ready? Here goes!"
You have been teleported somewhere else...
> l
The Village of Rue.
Specifically I'm looking at the case of player-derived world events
conspiring (deliberately or not) to place a character in a
particular situation.
> Gameplay involve tension -- not too much or too little. Too much
> and you get dead quick. End of game. Too little and nothing ever
> happens. Yawn. End of game (from boredom). Walking this line of
> having one or more increasingly powerful characters moving through
> the world without either nuking them or making things too easy is
> one reason why this kind of design is so difficult.
CraftOfAdventure demands, "3.To be able to win without experience of
past lives". Given the ambiguity of the term "win" in MUDs, I'm not
clear how appliciable this rule is as a generality.
>> Again, is the game there to provide a carefully guaged and
>> vicarious tour for the player, or is it there to provide a
>> logically consistent reality for the player to deduce and seduce
>> into survivability?
> Neither. That's a false dichotomy.
True, but you weren't supposed to notice that I was trolling for
traffic. The real crux of my question is in the defined position of
the game designer as regards his players.
--
J C Lawrence Internet: claw@kanga.nu
----------(*) Internet: coder@kanga.nu
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