November 1999
- Admin: Kanga.Nu has moved again J C Lawrence
- mud history Matthew Mihaly
- Physics Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Language Independence Article. Ben Greear
- Language Independence Article. Chris Turner
- Language Independence Article. Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Language Independence Article. Cynbe ru Taren
- ADMIN: Archives are back again J C Lawrence
- Hilbert Curves [was: "[DGD] Rooms with Views" and "Physics"] Christopher Allen
- Hilbert Curves [was: "[DGD] Rooms with Views" J C Lawrence
- Re Hilbert Curves Cynbe ru Taren
- Re Hilbert Curves J C Lawrence
- Hilbert Curves [was: "[DGD] Rooms with Views" and Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Christopher Allen
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) J C Lawrence
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Miroslav Silovic
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Brandon J. Rickman
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- A simple plan for establishing a history. Aaron
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was R e: Hilbert Curves) Lo, Kam
- Server: Momoko J C Lawrence
- META: Successor to FAQ Maintainer Lo, Kam
- ADMIN: Library goof J C Lawrence
- Scripting in java... (was Momoko) Owen
- Majik (Was Hilbert Curves) Owen
- players who "take away from the game" msew
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Holly Sommer
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Holly Sommer
- players who "take away from the game" Balthazaar/BalthMURP
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Holly Sommer
- players who "take away from the game" David Bennett
- players who "take away from the game" Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- players who "take away from the game" Miroslav Silovic
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Koster, Raph
- players who "take away from the game" Koster, Raph
- players who "take away from the game" msew
- players who "take away from the game" Sellers, Michael
- players who "take away from the game" Daniel James
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Greg Miller
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Charles Hughes
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Charles Hughes
- players who "take away from the game" Jon A. Lambert
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" Jon A. Lambert
- players who "take away from the game" Matthew Mihaly
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Marc Bowden
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Charles Hughes
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Charles Hughes
On Tuesday, November 09, 1999 9:49 PM, J C Lawrence [SMTP:claw@cp.net]
wrote:
> On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 23:11:25 -0500
> Charles Hughes <charles.hughes@bigfoot.com> wrote:
> > 0) Any player who's intent is to disturb the normal (and proper)
> > functioning of the game.
>
> Who defines "normal" and "proper"? On what metrics are they
> defined?
The admins/gods defined the metrics. Finding a bug was okay, using
it was abuse. PKing as harassment was defined as abuse.
> atrociously high score. I'd changed the goal.
The goal in the mud was to have fun with others NOT to have fun at
the expense of others. (This was not explicitly written down but was
stated by various gods at various times, and could be discerned from
the mud rules.)
> Where does this fit? What about Dr Cat's Stamp Collecting Dillemma?
> The player want's to collect stamps and be generally uninvolved in
> combat. Other players want to PK. Without pre-defining the game as
> being either a stamp collecting game or a PK game, which is
> "proper"?
It's not the same. PKing in this instance was frowned upon - the
abusive players would only appear after spying to make sure there
were few players in the area and no admins online.
> > I have been subjected to two different disruptive player attacks:
> > a) one character who was a newbie went around trying to screw with
> > people's triggers (he managed to screw with mine which really
> > pissed me off when the gods decided that was okay to do). b) one
> > or more characters who PK in a quite obviously non-PK area and
> > again the gods refused to intervene.
>
> Interestingly enough I would considr both the above actions quite
> acceptable. If you decide to isntall automations ofn your
> character, Caveat Emptor,
It seems to me that the same argument can be made of abusing a game
bug. If the admins don't want automations, they should explicitly
state so.
>and I'm generically opposed to artificial
> activity distinctions (such as voice-of-God enforced PK/non-PK
> areas) in game worlds
Doesn't matter if you're opposed to them. The admins in this case
had instituted them.
> Were the game to have support for funny bones, and the same newbie
> ran about striking people on their funny bones causing them to drop
> all they were carrying while chatting in the pub... Would that be
> an abuse?
Beats me, depends on what the admins said. It's a rather absurd
example since it doesn't actually pose any question. If the funny
bone was programmed in, and it is not a game bug, then it would
seem to not be an abuse to hit people on the funny bone.
> > (In both cases above, the incidents which made me mad enough to
> > cheat were caused by the gods not immediately enforcing the
> > rules.)
>
> Who defined and pulicised the rules? You or the admins? How were
> they promulgated?
The admins defined and publicized the rules - they were required
reading before playing, and any changes were placed as notices on
the login screen.
My original point still stands - disconnecting or disciplining an
abusive player immediately prevents more widespread abuse. - players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" Miroslav Silovic
- players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- players who "take away from the game" Adam Wiggins
- players who "take away from the game" Holly Sommer
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Quzah
- players who "take away from the game" Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- players who "take away from the game" Quzah
- players who "take away from the game" Ronan Farrell
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Charles Hughes
- players who "take away from the game" Jon A. Lambert
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Miroslav Silovic
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- players who "take away from the game" Koster, Raph
- players who "take away from the game" J C Lawrence
- History of Online Gaming, part III Koster, Raph
- [Lib] ADMIN: Library goof J C Lawrence
- Oh dear (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Costikyan's new report on online gaming Koster, Raph
- Costikyan's new report on online gaming Sellers, Michael
- Costikyan's new report on online gaming Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- META: System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") J C Lawrence
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") Eli Stevens {Grey}
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") J C Lawrence
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- System Security (was: players who "take away from the game") Cynbe ru Taren
- Neverwinter Nights Koster, Raph
- Neverwinter Nights Dundee
- Neverwinter Nights S. Patrick Gallaty
- Neverwinter Nights Trent Oster
- Neverwinter Nights Lee Sheldon
- Neverwinter Nights Sean Kelly
- Neverwinter Nights Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Neverwinter Nights Nathan F. Yospe
- Neverwinter Nights John Buehler
- Neverwinter Nights Travis Casey
- Neverwinter Nights Adam Martin
- associate producer/designer openings, and others: Maxis/EA Sellers, Michael
- MySQL as a MUD. Quzah
- MySQL as a MUD. Holly Sommer
- MySQL as a MUD. J C Lawrence
- MySQL as a MUD. J C Lawrence
- MySQL as a MUD. Ian Macintosh
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Sellers, Michael
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Holly Sommer
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Charles Hughes
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Quzah
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game" ) Sellers, Michael
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game" ) Matthew Mihaly
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Mik Clarke
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Ilya, Game Commandos
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Holly Sommer
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Balthazaar/BalthMURP
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Holly Sommer
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Balthazaar/BalthMURP
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Holly Sommer
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Adam Wiggins
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game") Jon A. Lambert
- ColdC/ColdCore Zelnar
- ColdC/ColdCore Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Miroslav Silovic
- Spatial datastructures and their application (Was Hilbert Curves) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- bugs (was players who "take away from the game" ) Charles Hughes
- GEL -- A New Approach to Online Interactive 3D claw@kanga.nu
- New FAQ moderator Marian Griffith
- New FAQ moderator J C Lawrence
- Mud Dev FAQ Marian Griffith
- Random numbers (was: Physics) Eli Stevens {Grey}
- code base inquiry Ilya, Game Commandos
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- code base inquiry Andru Luvisi
- code base inquiry Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- code base inquiry Travis S. Casey
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- code base inquiry cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- code base inquiry Mik Clarke
- code base inquiry Adam Wiggins
- code base inquiry Matthew D. Fuller
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Ben Greear
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
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- code base inquiry Robert Green
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- code base inquiry Travis Casey
- code base inquiry Matthew D. Fuller
- code base inquiry Travis Casey
- code base inquiry Ben Greear
- code base inquiry Travis S. Casey
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry Ben Greear
- code base inquiry Travis S. Casey
- code base inquiry Ilya, Game Commandos
- code base inquiry Mik Clarke
- code base inquiry Adam Wiggins
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Lars Duening
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- code base inquiry Ilya, Game Commandos
- code base inquiry cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- code base inquiry Travis Casey
- code base inquiry Lars Duening
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- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
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- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Richard Woolcock
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry MichelleThompson
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- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
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- code base inquiry adam@treyarch.com
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- code base inquiry Sellers, Michael
- code base inquiry Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- code base inquiry David Bennett
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- code base inquiry MichelleThompson
- code base inquiry David Bennett
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry David Bennett
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- code base inquiry Ilya, Game Commandos
- code base inquiry Colin Coghill
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry Caliban Tiresias Darklock
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Miroslav Silovic
- code base inquiry Joey Hess
- code base inquiry Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Mik Clarke
- code base inquiry Mik Clarke
- code base inquiry Andru Luvisi
- code base inquiry Andru Luvisi
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
- code base inquiry Ian Macintosh
- code base inquiry cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- code base inquiry Greg Miller
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- code base inquiry Jeremy Noetzelman
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- code base inquiry J C Lawrence
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- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- code base inquiry Matthew Mihaly
- MudWords.com J C Lawrence
- Library news J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Laurent Bossavit
- Languages for MUD drivers Joey Hess
- Languages for MUD drivers bruce@puremagic.com
- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers Laurent Bossavit
- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Ian Macintosh
- Languages for MUD drivers Greg Miller
- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Jo Dillon
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Greg Miller
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
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- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Laurent Bossavit
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- Languages for MUD drivers Cynbe ru Taren
- Languages for MUD drivers Greg Miller
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers J C Lawrence
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- Mud hosting services Dundee
- Mud hosting services AR Schleicher
- Mud hosting services Dundee
- Mud hosting services AR Schleicher
- Mud hosting services Greg Miller
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- Mud hosting services Mik Clarke
- Mud hosting services J C Lawrence
- Mud hosting services Mik Clarke
- Mud hosting services Ian Macintosh
- Mud hosting services J C Lawrence
- Mud hosting services gunderwood@donet.com
- Matrix Laurent Bossavit
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Locke
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Koster, Raph
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Greg Miller
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku rnicoll@respc-jrn.res.st-andrews.ac.uk
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Wendy Winkler
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Sony's EverQuest Admits Using Diku Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- Admins as Mortals Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Admins as Mortals Holly Sommer
- Admins as Mortals Travis S. Casey
- Admins as Mortals Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Admins as Mortals Sellers, Michael
- Admins as Mortals PartyG2816@aol.com
- Admins as Mortals Mik Clarke
- Admins as Mortals Philip Loguinov -- Draymoor
- Admins as Mortals J C Lawrence
- Admins as Mortals Travis S. Casey
- Admins as Mortals Koster, Raph
- Random numbers (was: Physics) J C Lawrence
- Urban Desire claw@kanga.nu
- Depth of realism Joe Kingry
- Depth of realism Ilya, Game Commandos
- Depth of realism Koster, Raph
- Depth of realism Mik Clarke
- Depth of realism Matthew Mihaly
- Depth of realism Marian Griffith
- Depth of realism Travis S. Casey
- Depth of realism Jo Dillon
- Depth of realism Marian Griffith
- Depth of realism Matthew Mihaly
- Depth of realism Wendy Winkler
- Depth of realism Travis Casey
- Depth of realism J C Lawrence
- Depth of realism J C Lawrence
- Depth of realism J C Lawrence
- Depth of realism Travis S. Casey
- Depth of realism J C Lawrence
- Depth of realism Jon A. Lambert
- Depth of realism Marian Griffith
- Depth of realism Jeremy Music
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Petri Virkkula
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Matthew Mihaly
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Marc Bowden
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) David Bennett
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Adam Wiggins
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) David Bennett
- Player statistics calculation (Was: code base inquiry) Adam Wiggins
- Admin: Attribute your quotes J C Lawrence
- Muq V -1.46.0 release (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Languages for MUD drivers Petri Virkkula
- MUD client resources (was: Mud hosting services) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- MUD client resources (was: Mud hosting services) Greg Miller
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Ian Macintosh
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Mik Clarke
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD drivers) Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- Distribution schemes (was Languages for MUD dri vers) Koster, Raph
- about MOO Ilya, Game Commandos
- (no subject) Michael Seifert
- (no subject) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (no subject) Mike Sellers
- (no subject) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (no subject) JC Lawrence
- (no subject) Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- (no subject) JC Lawrence
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- (no subject) The Eternal City
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- Admins as Mortals twist Ryan P.
- Admins as Mortals twist Darren Henderson
- Admins as Mortals twist Matthew Mihaly
- Admins as Mortals twist Darren Henderson
- Admins as Mortals twist Matthew Mihaly
- Admins as Mortals twist Dundee
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- Admins as Mortals twist J C Lawrence
- Admins as Mortals twist Koster, Raph
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- Admins as Mortals twist Marian Griffith
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- Admins as Mortals twist J C Lawrence
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- Public Domain Client Ian Macintosh
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- Re[4]: (no subject) Travis Casey
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- FAQ for gm-types? Dundee
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- FAQ for gm-types? Christopher Allen
- FAQ for gm-types? J C Lawrence
- Re[6]: (no subject) Travis Casey
- FW: Re[6]: (no subject) Koster, Raph
- Re[5]: (no subject) Koster, Raph
- Re[5]: (no subject) Travis S. Casey
- Interesting links Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- CODE RELEASE: (client) SMM++ J C Lawrence
- authority and human nature Matthew Mihaly
- authority and human nature Koster, Raph
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Mik Clarke
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- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Sellers, Michael
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- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Sellers, Michael
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- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Dan Shiovitz
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- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Chris Turner
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- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Scatter
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Scatter
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Scatter
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Quzah
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Scatter
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Quzah
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Scatter
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Adam Wiggins
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Richard Ross
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- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Dundee
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Raph & Kristen Koster
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Dundee
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Mik Clarke
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Holly Sommer
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Marian Griffith
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Lucas Moten {Krozy}
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Mik Clarke
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Matthew Mihaly
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) Greg Miller
- Fair/Unfair? Scenarios (fwd) J C Lawrence
- volunteerism on muds (fwd) J C Lawrence
- (fwd) Artificial Language for MUD programmers claw@kanga.nu
- The grass is always greener in the other field claw@kanga.nu
- The grass is always greener in the other field Jon A. Lambert
- The grass is always greener in the other field Matthew Mihaly
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field Dundee
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field Greg Miller
- The grass is always greener in the other field Ilya, Game Commandos
- The grass is always greener in the other field Adam Wiggins
- The grass is always greener in the other field Sellers, Michael
- The grass is always greener in the other field Adam Wiggins
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field Sellers, Michael
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field Travis Casey
- The grass is always greener in the other field Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The grass is always greener in the other field Koster, Raph
- The grass is always greener in the other field Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- The grass is always greener in the other field Cynbe ru Taren
- The grass is always greener in the other field Koster, Raph
- The grass is always greener in the other field cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- The grass is always greener in the other field Koster, Raph
- The grass is always greener in the other field Ola Fosheim Grøstad
- The grass is always greener in the other field Bruce Mitchener, Jr.
- The grass is always greener in the other field Charles Hughes
- The grass is always greener in the other field Matthew Mihaly
- The grass is always greener in the other field Cynbe ru Taren
- The grass is always greener in the other field Matthew Mihaly
- The grass is always greener in the other field Ilya, Game Commandos
- The grass is always greener in the other field cg@ami-cg.GraySage.Edmonton.AB.CA
- The grass is always greener in the other field Scatter
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field Matthew Mihaly
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field Matthew Mihaly
- The grass is always greener in the other field Raph & Kristen Koster
- The grass is always greener in the other field Timothy Dang
- The grass is always greener in the other field maddog@best.com
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field Petri Virkkula
- The grass is always greener in the other field Matthew Mihaly
- The grass is always greener in the other field Ian Macintosh
- The grass is always greener in the other field Koster, Raph
- The grass is always greener in the other field Adam Wiggins
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field Travis Casey
- The grass is always greener in the other field Adam Wiggins
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field J C Lawrence
- The grass is always greener in the other field Raph & Kristen Koster
- The grass is always greener in the other field Joe Andrieu
- Re[4]: (no subject) Travis Casey
- Re[4]: (no subject) claw@kanga.nu
- Re[6]: (no subject) Travis Casey