July 2007

• [JOB] Linden Lab Brighton Party 26th July Jim Purbrick
• • [JOB] Linden Lab Brighton Party 26th July Christopher Lloyd
• [BIZ] Forum software? Mike Rozak
• • [BIZ] Forum software? Caliban Darklock
  • • [BIZ] Forum software? Adam Martin
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Chan Yong Wei
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Michael Chui
  • [BIZ] Forum software? David Johansson
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Dana V. Baldwin
  • • [BIZ] Forum software? David Johansson
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Morgan Ramsay
• [DESIGN] Will players pay for public services? Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Will players pay for public services? cruise
• [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Travis Casey
  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Travis Casey
      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
          • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
              • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
                  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Aurel Mihai
                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Michael Chui
                    • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                          • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                              • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                    According to cruise:
                                    > To be fair, he original idea did actually mention this as an issue. It
                                    > is somewhat mitigated that killing a creature counts as one of those
                                    
                                    It is somewhat mitigated because achievements are usually tactical situations.
                                    You get an achievement by showing you're able - or still able - to tackle
                                    a given situation. Kill mob solo - achievement. And that generates as
                                    many achievements as you have soloable mobs in the game.
                                    
                                    That kind of achievement generates its own minigame. Ok, I've got a good
                                    weapon and enough hp to kill a level 25 creature, but I can't kill a higher
                                    one. So? I need to find a creature that level 26 and vulnerable to my
                                    mace. Hitting orcs doesn't work, but the level 26 skeleton is doable. Or
                                    I have high AC, so I need to find out melee-oriented creatures; that
                                    dark necromancer's academy is bad for my health, but a pure warrior
                                    camp is a good place to get my level 26 kill.
                                    
                                    After a while, of course, you can't solo. You've exhausted all the
                                    achievements that can be done solo: killing a single creature, killing two,
                                    killing two out of three AND escaping alive. Killing three.
                                    
                                    Each achievement is a bit more expensive to design than the average LOTRO
                                    quest, but immediately scales.
                                    
                                    As the level increase the diversity of achievements you need to complete
                                    increases as well. In a MMO, hence a social game, most of the higher level
                                    achievements will probably come from group oriented play.
                                    
                                    At any point, you can also have the cop-out of placing a named boss
                                    somewhere, and saying "killing The High Widow is a level N achievement".
                                    
                                    Ultimately, to take again the Bartle model, I've got achievements for
                                    social gaming, achievements for exploration gaming, achievement for
                                    brute force gaming (and, I can imagine, I can add pvp achievements as
                                    well). A relatively balanced model of rewards. But, for the pure
                                    achiever, its hard to swallow: if you want to be the best, you need to
                                    master EVERY facet of the game.
                                    
                                    > area counts, too - most current MMOG's have very substantial worlds that
                                    > would eat into that massive total.
                                    
                                    Earth & Beyond had an entire XP section devoted to exploration. Too bad,
                                    the non-repeatable part did not add to the designated max level, and
                                    the repeatable part was the exclusive purview of a couple classes.
                                    
                                    > ???Every revolutionary idea seems to evoke three stages of reaction. They
                                    > may be summed up by the phrases: 1- It's completely impossible. 2- It's
                                    > possible, but it's not worth doing. 3- I said it was a good idea all
                                    > along.??? - Arthur C. Clarke
                                    
                                    Now, to be honest, I don't think I'm that revolutionary. As I said all
                                    along, this kind of game has potential, but not as a mass market game.
                                    Even in 2004, I knew it was far too elitist to appeal to the masses.
                                    
                                    If you asked me: what would you replace the XP system with, *and*
                                    bring in the masses, I would have "a bit of a problem" getting an answer.
                                    
                                    > How on earth are you "forbidding" players from enjoying the same
                                    > content? It's still just as enjoyable as it was before, unless the only
                                    > "enjoyment" was the reward - in which case your game is pretty damn
                                    > sucky anyway, and you have bigger problems than the advancement model.
                                    
                                    And you can add rewards to repeatitive actions. The original article
                                    even mentioned it: if you want to have people enjoy the grind on
                                    the same mobs, add other rewards. Crafting resources and equipment
                                    come to mind.
                                    
                                    --
                                    Vincent Archer Email: archer@frmug.org
                                    
                                    All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates.
                                    (Woody Allen)
                                  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                                  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                            • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Michael Chui
                            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                        • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
            • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
          • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Arras
          • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Damion Schubert
              • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
              • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Damion Schubert
                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Damion Schubert
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
                      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
              • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Acius
              • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
          • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
        • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
    • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Jarod Reid
    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
    • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Travis Casey
• [DESIGN] Believable NPCs (was Natural Language Generation) Nicholas Koranda
• [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Travis Casey
  • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Jon Leonard
    • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Peter Keeler
    • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Caliban Darklock
      • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Peter Keeler
        • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Michael Chui
          • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Caliban Darklock
            • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency John Buehler
              • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Johnicholas Hines
• [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation Travis Casey
  • [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation cruise
  • • [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation Darryl Woodford