July 2007

• [JOB] Linden Lab Brighton Party 26th July Jim Purbrick
• • [JOB] Linden Lab Brighton Party 26th July Christopher Lloyd
• [BIZ] Forum software? Mike Rozak
• • [BIZ] Forum software? Caliban Darklock
  • • [BIZ] Forum software? Adam Martin
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Chan Yong Wei
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Michael Chui
  • [BIZ] Forum software? David Johansson
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Dana V. Baldwin
  • • [BIZ] Forum software? David Johansson
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Morgan Ramsay
• [DESIGN] Will players pay for public services? Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Will players pay for public services? cruise
• [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Travis Casey
  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
      On 7/26/07, Travis Casey <efindel@gmail.com> wrote:
      > On Jul 26, 2007, at 12:50 PM, Nicholas Koranda wrote:
      > > This is due to a simple problem: XP, as a numerical indicator, is a
      > > form of cash. It's untraceable, and it's exchangeable at will. One
      > > experience point I got from killing The Grand Boss of the Dungeon is
      > > completely equal to one experience point I got from killing
      > > a_weak_mob93. I might have gotten oodles of XP from the Grand Boss,
      > > but these are equal to the oodles of XP I got from killing hordes of
      > > those weak mobs. The only difference between those is the time
      > > spent, which has zero influence on the end result: I have earned X
      > > amount of XP, I can get to the next level.
      >
      > Some games use an automatic level adjustment -- that is, the amount
      > of XP you get from killing a mob of level X varies according to your
      > own level. If they're too low level, you gain no XP at all.
      
      But that doesn't do anything about "bottom-feeding". In Guid Wars, for
      example, killing 2 mobs 3 levels below me gives me almost exactly as
      much XP as killing one mob of my level, but (at the low levels I've
      played GW) is much safer and about as fast. If I recall correctly,
      EQII was similar; so were the Asian games I've played (9Dragons for a
      recent example). Vincent's proposal was more to say "As a level 5
      character, you received level 2 XP for killing a level 2 mob - which
      doesn't do you any good - and level 5 XP for killing a level 5 mob -
      which helps you towards level 6." This means that farming easy targets
      all day gets you nowhere, at least in the XP department.
      
      > IMHO, though, monster level often isn't the best thing to judge by,
      > because there are other factors that can vastly influence how hard it
      > is to kill monsters. Some major ones are monster placement and
      > behavior -- a set of monsters of level X who are placed fairly far
      > apart and don't move around are much easier to handle than a set of
      > the same level (or even the exact same monsters) who are bunched in
      > groups, move around more, have patrols, call for help, run when they
      > get low on hit points, etc.
      
      IIRC, EQII did something for this with taking into account whether
      mobs were solo or in groups, and I thought Vincent alluded to doing
      the same thing in his example of crowd-controlling a group of level X
      mobs.
      
      > A mud I used to play on had "quest points", which one gained by doing
      > quests. To get to a particular level required both a certain number
      > of XP, and a certain number of QP. The quests you'd already done
      > were tracked, so that doing the same quest again would not give any
      > quest points.
      
      As I understand Vincent's model, 10 level 1 quests would never add up
      to be equivalent to 1 level 10 quest, even if the level 1 quests were
      worth 10 QP and the level 10 quest was worth 100 QP.
      
      > > That kind of achievement-based system behaves very differently from
      > > an XP-based levelling system. It rewards real world knowledge and
      > > skill, notably. An experienced player can roll a new character, and
      > > very quickly "level", by simply running to various places he already
      > > knows, and reproducing feats he's already seen by other players he
      > > grouped with.
      >
      > I can see this as being exploitable, though... someone else could set
      > things up to make an achievement easy (e.g., a high-level character
      > clearing the orcs from tower of your example for a newbie). And I've
      > seen plenty of high-levels "run someone around" to help them get to
      > places they couldn't normally get to. Thus, while the intent of the
      > system is to reward real-world knowledge and skill, it's still
      > possible for someone to get a high level without learning much of
      > anything.
      
      In earlier tellings of ATitD, some of this happened, which actually
      had a good effect - as the game wore on, and old-timers got higher and
      higher up the advancement ladder, it was easier and easier for
      newcomers to get up the first few rungs. At the same time, ATitD took
      some steps against this. For instance, the Test of the Obelisk
      required that you build an Obelisk that was taller than that of
      anybody else within a 1km(?)-square region. As time went on and
      technology advanced farther, making the materials for the Obelisk
      easier and easier to mass-produce, the bar advanced to match.
      
      Tom
    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Travis Casey
      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
          • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
              • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
                  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Aurel Mihai
                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Michael Chui
                    • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                          • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                              • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                                  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                            • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Michael Chui
                            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                        • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
            • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
          • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Arras
          • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Damion Schubert
              • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
              • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Damion Schubert
                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Damion Schubert
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
                      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
              • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Acius
              • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
          • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
        • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
    • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Jarod Reid
    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
    • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Travis Casey
• [DESIGN] Believable NPCs (was Natural Language Generation) Nicholas Koranda
• [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Travis Casey
  • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Jon Leonard
    • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Peter Keeler
    • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Caliban Darklock
      • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Peter Keeler
        • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Michael Chui
          • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Caliban Darklock
            • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency John Buehler
              • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Johnicholas Hines
• [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation Travis Casey
  • [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation cruise
  • • [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation Darryl Woodford