July 2007

• [JOB] Linden Lab Brighton Party 26th July Jim Purbrick
• • [JOB] Linden Lab Brighton Party 26th July Christopher Lloyd
• [BIZ] Forum software? Mike Rozak
• • [BIZ] Forum software? Caliban Darklock
  • • [BIZ] Forum software? Adam Martin
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Chan Yong Wei
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Michael Chui
  • [BIZ] Forum software? David Johansson
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Dana V. Baldwin
  • • [BIZ] Forum software? David Johansson
  • [BIZ] Forum software? Morgan Ramsay
• [DESIGN] Will players pay for public services? Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Will players pay for public services? cruise
• [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Travis Casey
  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Travis Casey
      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
          • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
              • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
                  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Aurel Mihai
                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Michael Chui
                    • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                      According to Caliban Darklock:
                      > On 8/23/07, Vincent Archer <archer@frmug.org> wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Every level-based MMO has a point where a given task, be it a quest or
                      > > killing a mob yields zero xp.
                      >
                      > But that point is not "the next level". If a particular quest is worth
                      > 100% of its potential XP at level A, it is not worth zero XP at level
                      > A+1. My complaint is not that the point exists, but that it is too
                      > soon.
                      
                      No problem. Make it so that killing a level A mob is a level A+5
                      achievement, reduce the visual level of all mobs by 5, and, at level6,
                      killing a level 2 mob gives you an achievement, while killing a
                      level 1 mob won't.
                      
                      It doesn't change the mechanism in any way and shape, it's just that the
                      perception change. That's the problem of "too soon". You seem to have
                      the perception of a classic "accumulate small chunks of XP to raise
                      your power" MMO, where, at level N, you should be doing level N-X to N
                      content, and level N+1 content is "above your level".
                      
                      Your goal at level N is to unlock level N+1, which you're not
                      supposed to do yet.
                      
                      > > That's how it works already in all level-based MMOs. They all have
                      > > a point where the designers say "killing level 1 mob give you zero xp".
                      >
                      > But that point is not level 2, and I fail to see any legitimate reason
                      > to say it SHOULD be level 2. I don't believe anyone else will, either.
                      
                      The question is: why? Why do you NEED to kill a level 1 mob *and* be
                      rewarded for it, at level 2.
                      
                      That's a perception problem. I am supposed to do content below my level
                      to unlock the next level. When you inverse this, you do content above
                      your level to prove you're capable of raising to that level. If I kill a
                      level 3 mob, then I prove I'm capable of raising at least to level 3.
                      
                      Content below your level is trivial... which, when you say this, sounds
                      like a tautology, in fact. But not in the mind set of most players, I'm
                      afraid. For most players, their level represents the ceiling of their
                      abilities, instead of the base from which they can improve themselves.
                      A level 50 character is a "level 50 max" character, instead of a "level
                      50 min" character.
                      
                      > > By aiming high, you don't speed up getting thru level 5. You speed up
                      > > getting thru level 6, 7, 8 and 9 instead.
                      >
                      > I've already covered this: "It's a whole new kind of power leveling.
                      > The kind that not
                      > only allows you to bypass content ... but actively punishes you for
                      > trying to experience it anyway."
                      
                      It doesn't. It's a problem of perception. You perceive content "below
                      your level" to be worthy, and "just below your level" to be good, and
                      content "above your level" to have to wait until you're ready.
                      
                      There is no real difference between the two propositions for a level 10
                      character:
                      
                      - A level 10 mob is worth 1 advancement, a level 14 mob is
                      worth 5 successive advancements overall, and a level 9 mob gives nothing.
                      and
                      - A level 6 mob is worth 5xp points, a level 10 mob is worth 25xp, and
                      a level 5 mob is grey and worth nothing.
                      
                      All that differs is your perception of the content and level.
                      
                      --
                      Vincent Archer Email: archer@frmug.org
                      
                      All men are mortal. Socrates was mortal. Therefore, all men are Socrates.
                      (Woody Allen)
                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                          • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                              • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                                  • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
                            • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Michael Chui
                            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                        • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
            • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
          • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Arras
          • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
            • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Damion Schubert
              • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
              • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Damion Schubert
                  • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
                    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Damion Schubert
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... John Buehler
                      • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
                      • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
                        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
              • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Acius
              • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
          • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
        • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Tom Hudson
        • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Caliban Darklock
    • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Jarod Reid
    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Vincent Archer
    • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... cruise
    • • [DESIGN] Removing the almighty experience point... Travis Casey
• [DESIGN] Believable NPCs (was Natural Language Generation) Nicholas Koranda
• [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Travis Casey
  • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Jon Leonard
    • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Peter Keeler
    • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Caliban Darklock
      • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Peter Keeler
        • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Michael Chui
          • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Caliban Darklock
            • • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency John Buehler
              • [DESIGN] Active and Inactive Currency Johnicholas Hines
• [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation Nicholas Koranda
• • [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation Travis Casey
  • [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation cruise
  • • [DESIGN] Expected value and standard deviation Darryl Woodford