May 2007

• [DESIGN] Developing and balancing a roleplaying system Calvin
• [ADMIN] Bounced Posts? Nick Koranda
• [Offtopic] Lend your ears to science! Mike Rozak
• [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Lachek Butalek
• • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Jacob Cord
  • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Steve "Bloo" Daniels
    • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Damion Schubert
      • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? John Buehler
        • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Damion Schubert
          • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? John Buehler
            • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Tess Snider
              • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Raph Koster
                  • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                    • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Raph Koster
                      • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                        • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
                          • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                            • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
                              • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                                • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
                                  • [DESIGN} Who to design for? cruise
                                  • [DESIGN} Who to design for? John MacQueen
                              • "The Next Big Thing" (was [DESIGN} Who to design for?) Mike Sellers
                              • • "The Next Big Thing" (was [DESIGN} Who to design for?) Sean Howard
                                • • "The Next Big Thing" (was [DESIGN} Who to design for?) Peter Keeler
                          • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Michael Chui
                          • [DESIGN] Who to design for? Michael Hartman
                      • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Damion Schubert
                      • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
                  • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Tess Snider
                  • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
            • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
            • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? cruise
              • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
                  • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                      "Caliban Darklock" <cdarklock@gmail.com> wrote:
                      > Many Star Trek viewers are effectively translating the conversation into
                      > Pakled. They see Geordi come out and say something like this:
                      >
                      > "Captain, the dilithium matrix is destabilised, and we can't use warp
                      > drive for several hours. We're limited to impulse engines while I
                      > climb through the jeffreys tube and reinitialise the system."
                      >
                      > And the filters kick in:
                      >
                      > "Captain, IT IS BROKEN, and we can't GO FAST for several hours. We're
                      > limited to GOING SLOW while I climb through THAT and FIX IT."
                      
                      Your geek is showing :)
                      
                      That's exactly my point. Context clues allow people to understand dialogue
                      which contain vocabulary they don't understand. Something like an Aaron
                      Sorkin show tends to use a really large vocabulary, but fails to put it in
                      a manner in which intent is obvious. That's why Studio 60 will never find
                      a large fanbase. But Star Trek is something which places ideals ahead of
                      vocabulary. Everything that Star Trek is and means is obvious, even if
                      things like phasers and warp drives seem like gibberish to you.
                      
                      > But in a game context, you can't make that translation, because you're
                      > expected to give the command to fix it. So when someone in the game
                      > says "the dilithium matrix is destabilised" you're sitting there lost
                      > in this quagmire of jargon and unable to make a rational decision.
                      
                      Hmm... I think that if your intent were to design a game which closely
                      modeled the Star Trek gibberish, then yeah, you'd be very much confined by
                      it - as are most hardcore Western fantasy games, which take their lore far
                      too seriously. However, compare that to World of Warcraft. Each quest has
                      about a page of text, almost always optional, and yields a concise summary
                      at the end. You know you need to kill 4 wolves, then talk to a guy in town
                      X. That's all you need to know for pretty much the entirety of WoW. And
                      that's why WoW works. Because the gibberish isn't functional. That's why
                      every MMORPG has a quest tracker now.
                      
                      A good example of this is the Super Robot Taisen series. It is a very
                      popular tactical game series in Japan which uses licensed robots from
                      stuff like Mazinger Z, Macross, Evangelion, Dangaioh, Full Metal Panic,
                      and so on. These games are completely playable to someone who does not
                      read Japanese and does not know the difference between Getter Robo and
                      Gundam (now my geek is showing :). The real test is when they released a
                      game without any of the licensed robots and it was still playable.
                      
                      You don't need all that flash. In fact, I think if you got rid of the
                      flash, you'd be able to deliver MORE complex gameplay mechanics to a wider
                      range of players. For instance, in my current project, I've created a
                      theoretical gameplay mechanic for managing complex point and click
                      movement for a platforming game
                      (http://www.squidi.net/three/entry.php?id=6). The idea itself is fairly
                      complex, both visually and conceptually - and yet by illustrating it with
                      silhouettes, it seems simple and obvious.
                      
                      You are talking about dilithium crystals, when I think the worst offender
                      has been graphics. I think extremely complicated gameplay can be presented
                      in an obvious and clean way and even the most casual observer will be able
                      to understand it. Gameplay is absolutely universal. The thing which
                      separates the casuals from the hardcores is the wrappings.
                      
                      > I think there's a big fat part of a game's life cycle where you've
                      > already locked in your core player base, and until they move far
                      > enough along that they're a fringe element, the mainstream won't touch
                      > the game. The game has three important stages - one at the beginning
                      > where everyone who joins will be a "playa" simply because competition
                      > is minimal, one in the middle where only the elite get to succeed
                      > because competition is massive, and then one at the end where
                      > competition is reasonable because the elite have either moved on or
                      > are now playing a whole different type of game. Only "regular folk"
                      > are signing on and playing the main game, and most of them are
                      > comparable. That's where the game needs to be sustainable, in the end.
                      
                      I think you are close, but I think games become more hardcore over time.
                      WoW is a good example of it. The casual players have long since left that
                      game, and the hardcore gamers have been begging for more hardcore cookies,
                      so WoW has slowly over time become a hardcore game. The newbie areas are
                      empty. You can't find groups in most areas. What few other people you do
                      see are usually alts, twinked to perfection and intolerant of players
                      unfamiliar with the minutae of the game. In my experience, the only time
                      you can truly start a MMORPG as a casual gamer is on day one.
                      
                      > But the learning curve - while admittedly long - is shallow. Starcraft
                      > builds, mission after mission, so that you initially work with limited
                      > units and limited ideas. Over time, you become accustomed to the
                      > gameplay. Diablo has early levels where stats are largely irrelevant,
                      > and it's only as you get much deeper into the game that you need to
                      > track stats.
                      
                      I don't think the learning curve is nearly as important as people think it
                      is. I think by the time a casual player sees the number of units in
                      StarCraft or the stat system in Diablo, they've already decided whether or
                      not it is something they feel comfortable tackling. Obviously, you can
                      have a learning curve that is too steep and frustrating, but that's the
                      only time the curve matters - making it long, shallow, short, quick, tall,
                      whatever isn't going to make or break the game.
                      
                      > Agreed. There is something fundamentally different in the mindset; I'm
                      > playing Dead Rising over and over this week, not because I'm having so
                      > much fun with it, but because I'm convinced that I can accomplish a
                      > particular goal within 24 hours of game time. Every time I hit that 24
                      > hour mark and haven't accomplished it, no matter how close I am, I
                      > start over. That's hardcore gaming behavior.
                      
                      More like obessive compulsive disorder :)
                      
                      I think all players get that kind of thing, depending on their goals and
                      situation. I don't think having goals is what makes you a hardcore gamer.
                      I think it's an edge of competitiveness, a bit of perfectionism, mixed
                      with detailed knowledge of a game's minutae as if it mattered, and of
                      course, min maxing everything from your character's name to how many steps
                      they walk.
                      
                      I think your goal qualifies you as hardcore because it seems to
                      incorporate all those things. But without knowing the goal, I'm just
                      assuming.
                      
                      --
                      Sean Howard
                    • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
                      • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                        • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
                          • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                            • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Dana V. Baldwin
                              • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
                              • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                                • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
                                  • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
                                    • • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
              • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Mike Sellers
            • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Tess Snider
            • • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Mike Sellers
              • • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Sean Howard
                • • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Mike Sellers
                  • • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Sean Howard
                    • • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Michael Chui
                  • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Peter Keeler
                  • • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Ammon Lauritzen
                    • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Sean Howard
                    • • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Lachek Butalek
                      • [Design] 4Cs (was Who to design for?) Dana V. Baldwin
          • [DESIGN} Who to design for? cruise
          • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Sean Howard
          • [DESIGN} Who to design for? Caliban Darklock
        • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Steve "Bloo" Daniels
        • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Caliban Darklock
          • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs cruise
            • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Steve "Bloo" Daniels
  • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Tess Snider
  • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Lachek Butalek
    • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Michael Chui
      • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Ian Hess
      • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Ian Hess
      • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Tess Snider
      • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Lachek Butalek
        • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Michael Hartman
          • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Kiztent
            • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Jean, Yannick
            • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Michael Hartman
              • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Vincent Archer
                • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Dave Scheffer
          • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Tess Snider
          • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Michael Chui
  • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs John Buehler
  • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Morris Cox
  • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Dana V. Baldwin
    • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Matt Chatterley
      • • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Dana V. Baldwin
        • [Design] [REPOST] Food in MMOs Michael Chui
        • • [Design] Obstacles and Hindrances [was: Food in MMOs & Perma-death] cruise
• [DESIGN] Perma-death cruise
• • [DESIGN] Perma-death Dana V. Baldwin
  • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Steve "Bloo" Daniels
  • [DESIGN] Perma-death Nick Koranda
  • • [DESIGN] Perma-death cruise
  • [DESIGN] Perma-death Damion Schubert
  • • [DESIGN] Perma-death cruise
    • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Dana V. Baldwin
      • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Steve "Bloo" Daniels
        • • [DESIGN] Perma-death cruise
          • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Steve "Bloo" Daniels
            • [DESIGN] Perma-death Jeffrey Kesselman
  • [DESIGN] Perma-death Tess Snider
  • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Cory Cohen
    • [DESIGN] Perma-death Matt Chatterley
    • [DESIGN] Perma-death Craig Huber
    • • [JOBS] Areae hiring Raph Koster
    • [DESIGN] Perma-death Phillip Lenhardt
    • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Jeffrey Kesselman
      • [DESIGN] Perma-death Jeffrey Kesselman
      • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Tess Snider
        • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Jeffrey Kesselman
          • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Tess Snider
            • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Jeffrey Kesselman
              • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Dave Scheffer
                • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Dana V. Baldwin
                  • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Dave Scheffer
          • [DESIGN] Perma-death Matt Chatterley
          • [DESIGN] Perma-death cruise
          • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Caliban Darklock
            • • [DESIGN] Perma-death cruise
              • [DESIGN] Perma-death Dana V. Baldwin
              • • [DESIGN] Perma-death cruise
        • [DESIGN] Perma-death Caliban Darklock
        • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Dana V. Baldwin
          • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Peter Keeler
            • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Dana V. Baldwin
              • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Peter Keeler
                • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Jeffrey Kesselman
                  • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Peter Keeler
                    • [DESIGN] Perma-death Michael Chui
      • [DESIGN] Perma-death Soy weiser
      • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Ammon Lauritzen
        • [DESIGN] Perma-death Jeffrey Kesselman
  • [DESIGN] Perma-death Ammon Lauritzen
  • • [DESIGN] Perma-death Dana V. Baldwin
  • [DESIGN] Perma-death John Buehler
  • [DESIGN] Perma-death Hans Häggström
  • • [DESIGN] Perma-death cruise
• [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employee interview Adam Martin
• • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employeeinterview Morgan Ramsay
  • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employee interview Sean Howard
  • • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employee interview Adam Martin
    • • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employee interview Sean Howard
      • • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employee interview Mike Sellers
        • • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employee interview Michael Zenke
          • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employee interview Sean Howard
          • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employeeinterview Mike Rozak
          • • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employeeinterview Mike Sellers
    • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employee interview Caliban Darklock
  • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employeeinterview Mike Rozak
  • • [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employeeinterview Sean Howard
• Fwd: [NEWS] Sigil / Vanguard fallout ... the ex-employeeinterview Adam Martin
• [DESIGN] Mechanical support for socializer playstyles Ian Hess
• • [DESIGN] Mechanical support for socializer playstyles Michael Chui
  • • [DESIGN] Mechanical support for socializer playstyles Ian Hess
  • [DESIGN] Mechanical support for socializer playstyles Michael Chui
  • • [DESIGN] Mechanical support for socializer playstyles cruise
• [TECH] Creating games with Worldforge Roger D Vargas
• • [TECH] Creating games with Worldforge Alistair Riddoch
  • • [TECH] Creating games with Worldforge Roger D Vargas
  • [TECH] Creating games with Worldforge Tess Snider
  • • [TECH] Creating games with Worldforge Roger D Vargas
    • • [TECH] Creating games with Worldforge Lachek Butalek
      • [TECH] Creating games with Worldforge Tess Snider
      • • [TECH] Creating games with Worldforge Roger D Vargas
        • • [TECH] Creating games with Worldforge Tess Snider
• The Merits of Text Chat (Was: Importance of emoting) Michael Hartman
• • The Merits of Text Chat (Was: Importance of emoting) Matt Chatterley
• [Design] Alternatives To Advancement Systems (was Food in MMOs) Caliban Darklock
• [DESIGN] Essence of a MMO (was 4Cs) Dana V. Baldwin
• • [DESIGN] Essence of a MMO (was 4Cs) Caliban Darklock
  • [DESIGN] Essence of a MMO (was 4Cs) Sean Howard
  • • [DESIGN] Essence of a MMO (was 4Cs) Dana V. Baldwin
• [TECH] Server Side Scripting Roger D Vargas
• • [TECH] Server Side Scripting Caliban Darklock
  • [TECH] Server Side Scripting Richard Tew
  • [TECH] Server Side Scripting Ammon Lauritzen
  • [TECH] Server Side Scripting Jeffrey Kesselman