June 2005
- Development and Live Team Dynamics Chris Richards
- Development and Live Team Dynamics Koster, Raph
- (no subject) Unknown
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? cruise
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from -Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? John Buehler
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? HRose
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? cruise@casual-tempest.net
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? Damien Neil
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? Michael Hartman
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] cruise
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] John Buehler
cruise writes:
> So why do people play these type of games?
> a) Advancement and character power.
> b) Strategic challenge of in-game profession (ie. combat, mostly).
> c) Escapism.
> d) Socialising.
> e) Anything else I've forgotten...
> None of those are exclusive, obviously - personally I'm c,b,a,d
> (in order of importance).
> It seems the general attitude on this list, and from the various
> respective boards for each game, is that 'a' is becoming the
> dominant, if not exclusive, reason.
> Can this be down entirely to game design? It seems that xp has
> become like money - intended as a representation of something
> (ability or work done, respectively), but has become the ultimate
> goal.
Remember that these games self-select. It is an environment limited
to those who have computers, have an inclination to spend time in a
virtual environment, and so on. Present it differently and you get
different types of people interested in different things. Add voice
and you attract a different group. Create an arcade setting where
you can physically go to play with friends (e.g. internet cafe) and
you target a different group.
I believe that advancement and character power are becoming the
winners in the venue as it currently exists. Take all people who
are content to sit in front of a computer for hours at a stretch,
typing to converse, hearing canned sound effects, watching canned
animations in fancy 3D environments and you may find that one thing
that appeals to a sizeable chunk of them is character power and
advancement.
The other types of entertainment that you describe haven't been
tackled well in MMOs.
1. Strategy
A simple example here is lack of real world physics. No
collision detection removes a whole world of strategies that are
taken from the real world. How can I stop a charging enemy if
he can run right through me? What strategy can exist when I
cannot inventively use my character's abilities and the
environment around it? All strategies have been laid out by the
game designers in advance - in an effort to ensure 'balance'.
That throttles creativity right from the get-go. This is why
MMOs are mind-numbingly boring for those who have a desire for
creativity.
2. Escapism
This is extraordinarily difficult to do. I believe that
escapism is handled by immersion, and there is far too little
coming from these games to even get us wet, let alone immerse us
in anything. The best sense of immersion that I ever had was in
the early days of my first MMO - EverQuest. I joined a little
group in a run from Freeport to Qeynos. It was just one zone
after another, rapid fire. I had no idea what I was doing, and
I was completely overwhelmed. It was immersive. When my
character arrived at Qeynos, I wanted to kiss the walls of the
city for the safety they afforded. It's difficult to retain
that sort of immersion when everything is so canned and
repetitive. The players quickly get on top of the game and
begin to 'game' it.
3. Socialization
Lack of voice is the killer here. MMOs MUST include voice as a
standard feature and not leave it to TeamSpeak and other such
products. Beyond that is a need for physical gestures. The
"Buehler Socialization Test" for MMOs is to be able to
successfully permit player one to use their character to
indicate an object in the game and say something about it, with
player two easily noticing and understanding. AND player one
knows that player two understands as a result of observing
player two's character. That is when socialization will be
'implemented'.
4. Anything else
Novelty is one such 'else'. This probably falls under
exploration. This is the reason that I played these games.
Just for the sheer novelty of experiencing something new. You
might imagine how I abhor any repetition, let alone a grind.
> Do we need to perhaps think about re-educating players somehow,
> rather than forcibly removing or hiding the xp/levelling? Current
> game-fashion seems to be favouring sandbox-style games, yet might
> it be necessary in some situations to enforce certain gameplay on
> players? It's well known that players make bad game designers -
> but can we say players make bad game /players/ in that they don't
> always know what they'd enjoy when given the option?
If you sell a Ferrari, you'll attract Ferrari consumers. If you
sell a Toyota Hybrid, you'll attract Hybrid consumers. If you sell
an M-1 Abrams Main Battle Tank, you'll attrack Abrams customers.
The point is not to educate players, but to create a certain
experience and accept the players that are drawn to it. If people
believe that they will experience something that they are after by
playing your game, those are the people that will become your
players.
Never try to tell customers what they should do with your game.
THEY tell YOU such things.
JB - DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Yggdrasil
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Damien Neil
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Sean Howard
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Damien Neil
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Sean Howard
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Damien Neil
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Paolo Piselli
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Damien Neil
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Paolo Piselli
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Richard A. Bartle
- SOC: Yee vs. Bartle II Jaycen Rigger
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Richard A. Bartle
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Paolo Piselli
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviorsspawnedfrom...] Richard A. Bartle
- DGN: Reasons for play cruise
- DGN: Reasons for play Paolo Piselli
- DGN: Reasons for play cruise
- DGN: Reasons for play Russ Whiteman
- DGN: Reasons for play Sean Howard
- DGN: Reasons for play lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DGN: Reasons for play Sean Howard
- SOC: Yee vs. Bartle Jaycen Rigger
- SOC: Yee vs. Bartle Ren Reynolds
- SOC: Yee vs. Bartle Amanda Walker
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Michael Hartman
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Sean Howard
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Sean Howard
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Michael Hartman
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Michael Hartman
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Max Battcher
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Damien Neil
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] Oliver Smith
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviorsspawned from...] Mike Rozak
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] cruise
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Michael Sellers
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] cruise
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Damien Neil
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Sean Howard
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Michael Hartman
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Jeff Bachtel
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Sean Howard
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Michael Hartman
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Damion Schubert
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Michael Hartman
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Jaycen Rigger
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Michael Hartman
- SOC/DGN: Enforcing Socially Acceptable Behavior Jaycen Rigger
- SOC/DGN: Enforcing Socially Acceptable Behavior Sean Howard
- SOC/DGN: Enforcing Socially Acceptable Behavior Damion Schubert
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] Damien Neil
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawned from...] P J
- DGN: Reasons for play [was: Emergent Behaviors spawnedfrom...] John Buehler
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? Jaycen Rigger
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? Michael Hartman
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? Amanda Walker
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? cruise
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? Michael Hartman
- SOC: Will company sanctioned cheating hurt the MMO community? Darkwolf
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? Michael Hartman
- DGN: Emergent Behaviors spawned from - Re: [MUD-Dev]SOC:Willcompany sanctioned cheating hurt theMMOcommunity? Vincent Archer
- (no subject) Unknown
- Re: Morris Cox
- BIZ: Customer Acquisition Costs in MMOs Vladimir Cole
- Castle Marrach Comic released under Creative Commons Christopher Allen
- Hosting questions Mike Rozak
- Hosting questions James Turner
- Hosting questions Mike Rozak
- Hosting questions Scott Jennings
- Hosting questions Mike Rozak
- Hosting questions ceo
- Hosting questions Kwon J. Ekstrom
- Hosting questions ceo
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) erik
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) Michael Chui
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) Richard A. Bartle
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) William Leader
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) Erik Bethke
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) William Leader
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) Jaycen Rigger
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) Eli Stevens (WG.c)
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) Akiba Liebskind
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) Matt Chatterley
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) David Love
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) Damien Neil
- Looking for a Magic System (inspired by Bartle's book) Hulbert, Leland
- Attack System Dhiego Ramos
- Attack System Tiago Carita
- Attack System Damion Schubert
- Attack System Tess Snider
- Attack System Tony Hoyt
- Attack System Dhiego Ramos
- Attack System Matt Chatterley
- Hosting questions Frederick Nacino
- Hosting questions ceo