March 2005
- MUD-Dev dinner at GDC: 10 March 2005 J C Lawrence
- Time travel, borrowing from LegenMUD olag@ifi.uio.no
- Time travel, borrowing from LegenMUD Tiago Carita
- Is content on demand bad? olag@ifi.uio.no
- Is content on demand bad? John Buehler
- Is content on demand bad? Jaycen Rigger
- Efficient AI? olag@ifi.uio.no
- Efficient AI? Brian Lindahl
- Efficient AI? olag@ifi.uio.no
- Efficient AI? Brian Lindahl
- Efficient AI? Miroslav Silovic
- Efficient AI? Douglas Goodall
- Efficient AI? Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- Efficient AI? Robert Zubek
- Efficient AI? olag@ifi.uio.no
- Efficient AI? Brett Bibby
- Wish revisited olag@ifi.uio.no
- Wish revisited Peter Harkins
- Wish revisited olag@ifi.uio.no
- Wish revisited Zach Collins (Siege)
- Wish revisited olag@ifi.uio.no
- secured mud connections Ammon Lauritzen
- secured mud connections Ammon Lauritzen
- secured mud connections Zach Collins (Siege)
- secured mud connections William Leader
- Encounter Crafting (was Wish Revisited) Allan Hill
- Encounter Crafting (was Wish Revisited) Zach Collins (Siege)
- list of open source engines/games sszretter
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Mike Rozak
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Vladimir Cole
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Dana V. Baldwin
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Travis Nixon
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Mike Rozak
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Vincent Archer
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Exar Kun
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Shelkey, Doneld
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Amanda Walker
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Michael Hartman
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Sean Kelly
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005, Michael Hartman wrote:
> Amanda Walker wrote:
>> One of the things I have been greatly enjoying about WoW (and to
>> a lesser extent, SWG), is that it's not so prone to "the rest of
>> my guild got 10 levels ahead of me while I was away on business,
>> and now I'll never have a chance to catch up ever again." SWG
>> and WoW have the most cohesive guilds I've experienced yet,
>> mainly because the members can continue to play together even at
>> different levels. Now, sometimes it's with alternate
>> characters--the low barrier to "leveling up" makes it a lot
>> easier to go try different approaches for variety--but I don't
>> think that ease of play necessarily translates to lower group
>> cohesion.
> Um........ what?
> WoW is the LEAST conducive to varied level grouping of any MMO I
> have ever played.
I think Amanda's main point was that the ease of leveling and the
ability to solo reduce the likelihood that mixed-level groups will
be necessary for friends who like to play together. I do also
believe that mixed-level grouping is more feasible than you suggest
(more below).
> In a group, everyone earns xp based on how the mob "cons" to the
> highest level person. You cannot help a friend who is a few
> levels lower than you level up, because he won't be catching
> up. He'll actually fall behind.
In my experience, progress has seemed to be pretty even between low
and high level members in a group situation. And scaling things
more towards allowing low level players to "catch up" would be an
invitation for powerleveling, which is something Blizzard has tried
very carefully to avoid.
> Even if you are only a few levels apart, the heavy quest emphasis
> will often result in the two characters not being able to do the
> same quests at the same time because of the minimum level
> requirement.
It helps that a quest will give experience until you're 7-9 levels
beyond it (I forget the exact number offhand). I've spent various
chunks of my play time 3-5 levels behind the people I play with and
quest levels have never been a problem for us for this reason.
> Also, if a mob is 3 or 4 levels higher than you, you'll miss like
> crazy and FORGET about landing a spell. Thus, the lower level
> person is almost useless.
The lower level person can still act in a support role in most
cases. And not all classes are equal in this regard. The warlocks
my friends play can take down orange and red mobs fairly easily,
though my Paladin hass far more trouble in this regard. Still, in
those situations I've been able to contribute by healing, stunning,
etc. It's also worth noting that the mobs in instances are a
substantially lower level than the quests given for that instance.
I've grouped with players almost 10 levels below me for instance
runs, and while the aggro management can be some work, it's a viable
play option.
> With the way the aggro range works, bringing someone a few levels
> lower than you is often a huge liability as they cause mobs to
> aggro from all over the place.
I do agree with this (see above). It's really amazing what a
difference just a level or two makes in WoW. Not with stats or
abilities so much as the ability to avoid aggro and to damage a mob.
It makes every level feel significant, even though they are fairly
easy to attain.
> And no, creating "alts" to play with your friends is not a game
> that is conducive to varied level grouping. The hyper fast
> advancement system just allows for a kludge workaround.
Again, I don't think Amanda's point was that varied level grouping
was encouraged by the game so much as that the ease of level gain
reduced the chance that this would be a necessity. I started
playing WoW a week or so after my friends did, and I was able to
catch up to them in the course of a single day off. Granted, they
hadn't been obsessively powerleveling, but most people don't.
On a semi-unrelated note, I've found the character progress system
in WoW to be far preferable to any other level-bassed MMO system
I've played. Talent choice (talents are bought by points granted on
level gain) is far less critical to the effectiveness of a character
than it has seemed in other games. And for a fairly minimal cost,
talents can un un-learned, which eliminates the need to start a new
char just to fix a bad decision. The result is both that
level-based decisions are not critical to the success of characters
and that time is never wasted on dead-end characters. Because of
this, I haven't become discouraged by mistakes and the resulting
level grind like I have with other games (Diablo 2 being a notable
example--you can't say Blizzard doesn't learn from their mistakes).
Sean - Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Vincent Archer
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Michael Hartman
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Paolo Piselli
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Vincent Archer
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Sean Kelly
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Michael Hartman
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Mike Shaver
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Michael Hartman
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Koster, Raph
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Michael Hartman
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Koster, Raph
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population John Buehler
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Koster, Raph
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population John Buehler
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Jaycen Rigger
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population ghovs
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Jaycen Rigger
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Barry Kearns
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- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population John Buehler
- Food (was Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population) John Buehler
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- Dgn: Currency free game [was: Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population] cruise
- Dgn: Currency free game [was: Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population] Michael Hartman
- Dgn: Currency free game [was: Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population] Michael Chui
- Dgn: Currency free game [was: Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population] jbarry
- Dgn: Currency free game [was: Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population] Pandora
- Dgn: Currency free game Tony Hoyt
- Dgn: Currency free game Kirinyaga
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Kyle Leithoff
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population John Buehler
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Damion Schubert
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Vincent Archer
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- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Paul Schwanz
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population John Buehler
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Allan Hill
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population John Buehler
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Amanda Walker
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Tony Hoyt
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Craig Huber
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population John Buehler
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Craig Huber
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population John Buehler
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Amanda Walker
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Ken Snider
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Amanda Walker
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Michael Hartman
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Sean Howard
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Morris Cox
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Sean Howard
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Morris Cox
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Paul Schwanz
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Amanda Walker
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Tony Hoyt
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Amanda Walker
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Lydia Leong
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Amanda Walker
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Koster, Raph
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Michael Hartman
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population John Buehler
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Damien Neil
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Amanda Walker
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Sean Howard
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Dana V. Baldwin
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Michael Hartman
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population J C Lawrence
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Sean Kelly
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Sean Kelly
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Sean Kelly
- Convenient Community Tools (Was: Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population) Paul Schwanz
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Jaycen Rigger
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population ghovs
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population Max Battcher
- Blog about GDC implies changes to MMORPG population cruise
- Swedish Developers Shailejron
- Burning House Challenge Bloo
- DESIGN : informations about mud design Lethal Thanatos
- DESIGN: Source for free audio clips Mike Rozak
- Dynamic Descriptions Bernard Graham
- Dynamic Descriptions William Leader
- Dynamic Descriptions Christopher Allen
- Dynamic Descriptions Douglas Goodall
- Dynamic Descriptions Tess Snider
- Dynamic Descriptions Bernard Graham
- Dynamic Descriptions Peter Keeler
- Dynamic Descriptions Eric
- Dynamic Descriptions Alex Chacha
- Dynamic Descriptions Mike Rozak
- Dynamic Descriptions Bernard Graham
- Dynamic Descriptions Peter Keeler
- Dynamic Descriptions Bernard Graham
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Alistair Milne
- Dynamic Descriptions Nathan Yospe
- Dynamic Descriptions Paul Schwanz
- Dynamic Descriptions Max Battcher
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) Eli Stevens (WG.c)
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) Richard A. Bartle
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) Eli Stevens (WG.c)
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) John Buehler
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) Eli Stevens (WG.c)
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) John Buehler
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) Eli Stevens (WG.c)
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) John Buehler
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) Max Battcher
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) J C Lawrence
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) William Leader
- XP as gift (was: Attractive Grouping) Eli Stevens (WG.c)
- SOC: Use of MUDs as teaching/organizational tools for schools and businesses Chris Yeh
- DESIGN: Why do MUD players prefer MUDs over MMORPGs Mike Rozak
- Suggestions on Books and Articles Chris
- Suggestions on Books and Articles Sean Marshall
- ANNOUNCE TECH CODE Robert W. Fuller
- Procedural content (was [Sweng-gamedev] Patent 4, 734, 690) (fwd) J C Lawrence
- Procedural content (was [Sweng-gamedev] Patent 4, 734, 690) (fwd) Eric Random
- Procedural content (was [Sweng-gamedev] Patent 4, 734, 690) (fwd) Hans-Henrik Staerfeldt
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Kiztent Hatepriest
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Travis Casey
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces John Buehler
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces John Buehler
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Bloo
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Jaycen Rigger
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Koster, Raph
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Koster, Raph
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Louis d'Ambra
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Jaycen Rigger
- DESIGN: The game with a thousand faces Michael Sellers
- Procedural content (was [Sweng-gamedev] Patent 4, 734, 690) (fwd) Hulbert, Leland