October 2005
- DESIGN: Role playing Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: Role playing Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: Role playing Arnau Josep Rosselló Castelló
- DESIGN: Role playing Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: Role playing Arnau Josep Rosselló Castelló
- [SPAM] DESIGN: Role playing Dana V. Baldwin
- DESIGN: Role playing Mark Whittington
- DESIGN: Role playing Tess Snider
- DESIGN: Role playing ghovs
- DESIGN: Role playing Michael Hartman
- DESIGN: Role playing Amanda Walker
- DESIGN: Role playing Mike Rozak
- DESIGN: My current grand unified theory of avatar games Mike Rozak
- Reward system for social gaming? Martin Gundtoft
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
- Reward system for social gaming? Alex McGivern
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
- Reward system for social gaming? Arnau Josep Rosselló Castelló
- Reward system for social gaming? Kiztent
- Reward system for social gaming? Scott Jennings
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
- Reward system for social gaming? Scott Jennings
- Reward system for social gaming? Lachek Butalek
- Reward system for social gaming? Alex McGivern
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
"Alex McGivern" <alex@aeonofdiscord.co.uk> wrote:
> It's a game. Participation is voluntary, players can drop out at
> any time, and the things that happen to your avatar aren't
> happening to you. I can't quite fathom what you mean by "the
> results are dangerous".
Ah, the classic catch all excuse - and it is an excuse. If you do
any reading on this subject, you'll find that it is frequently
described as a community, virtual world, or even second life. "My
Tiny Life" is a good example of when people stop playing games and
start being real.
Social connections are not and can not be games. Even if the world
is fictional, those interpersonal relationships are very much
real. I even think that it's a mistake to think of them as online
games, as I believe the community aspect trumps everything else.
> If all participants were made fully aware of the server contract,
> how would you feel about the idea then?
I'm okay with it. When you enter a new community with the rules up
front, it is far easier to assimilate yourself without feeling
personally slighted at every turn. It's still not a perfect
situation, as there is no way to completely control interaction, so
even on a PvP server, there are still behaviors which are implicitly
considered bad. But it's certainly a lot better.
>> Did you read that article about EVE Online? The one where a group
>> of assassins spent nearly a year infiltrating a rival guild,
>> earning their trust, and then backstabbing them and stealing all
>> the guild assets?
> That's really cool, in theory - I'd love to play in a game that
> fully supported that style of play.
You'd be okay with having the wealth amassed over years of dedicated
playing to be taken away in a heartbeat because your trusted friends
turned on you? Either you are okay with a virtual community based on
mistrust, betrayal, and paranoia, or you just think the idea is
nifty "in theory". I think it's cool that it happened, but I also
think that virtual property shouldn't be considered throwaway. It
has value, and as that guy in Korea demonstrated, it can be worth
killing over to some people.
> which makes a successful coup like the one you describe rather
> hollow.
Just out of curiosity, what would you suggest would be a less hollow
coup?
> Bleurgh. This is the kind of nonsense that puts me off Warcraft,
> not because it's oppressive (I like playing the underdog), but
> because it's metagaming (which I believe is allowed under
> Blizzard's definition of PvP).
I've got a drawer filled with ideas about how to ruin a mmorpg's
community through such metagaming. Things like manipulating
economies, ruining other player's gaming experiences, controlling
social spheres, dismantling developer credibility, and stuff like
that. I could never bring myself to engage in such manipulative
behavior, but the fact that I could come up with these things (just
by observing the SWG forums, ironically) has taught me to never
underestimate players and never, ever overestimate the gaming
restrictions.
> Tangentially, it sounds like the tactic only works because the
> Alliance can prevent enemy PCs gaining XP: I'm generally of the
> opinion that PvP (and roleplaying) don't coexist well with
> treadmill-oriented games.
PvP, in general, can be controlled quite easily as long as one side
is willing to coordinate their side towards a specific goal. Most
games have specific criteria for what it means to "win" and "lose"
and much of the gameplay devices are centered around these
concepts. If you throw them out and define your own version of
victory, it turns out that there isn't a whole lot the game can do
to influence or stop you.
For instance, in the original Unreal Tournament, we once did an
internet game where all my friends played as the war cow and we kept
running around screaming MOO. Even though it was free for all
deathmatch, we ganged up on whomever took that last available slot
(easily spotted - not a warcow). We timed how long it took before
they'd leave the server in disgust. Not the game that the developers
had in mind, I'm sure.
- Sean - Reward system for social gaming? Damien Neil
- Reward system for social gaming? David Love
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
- Reward system for social gaming? cruise
- Reward system for social gaming? Damien Neil
- Reward system for social gaming? Adam Miller
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
- Reward system for social gaming? Arnau Josep Rosselló Castelló
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
- Reward system for social gaming? Damion Schubert
- Reward system for social gaming? lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- Reward system for social gaming? Tom Hunter
- Reward system for social gaming? Christopher Allen
- Reward system for social gaming? Arnau Josep Rosselló Castelló
- Reward system for social gaming? lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- Reward system for social gaming? Matt Chatterley
- Reward system for social gaming? cruise
- Reward system for social gaming? Arnau Josep Rosselló Castelló
- Reward system for social gaming? John Buehler
- Reward system for social gaming? Christopher Allen
- Reward system for social gaming? Freeman, Jeff
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
- Reward system for social gaming? Sasha Hart
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
- Reward system for social gaming? Sasha Hart
- Reward system for social gaming? Sean Howard
- NPR - 'Virtual' Virus Sheds Light on Real-World Behavior Zach Collins (Siege)
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Michael Hartman
- [SPAM] DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Dana V. Baldwin
- [SPAM] DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Michael Hartman
- [SPAM] [SPAM] DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Dana V. Baldwin
- [SPAM] DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Lachek Butalek
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Damion Schubert
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Tess Snider
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat John Buehler
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Tess Snider
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat John Buehler
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Ted L. Chen
- Newbie in-flow Mike Rozak
- EmlenMUD II - Can it be found? jason
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat Lachek Butalek
- DESIGN: Role playing and Voice Chat lwl@black-knight.org (Lydia Leong)
- DESIGN: Analysis of Fable Mike Rozak
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Christopher D. Chapman
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies William Leader
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies rayzam
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Tom Hunter
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Jaycen Rigger
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies John Buehler
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies William Leader
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies John Buehler
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Christopher D. Chapman
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies William Leader
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Jaycen Rigger
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Paolo Piselli
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies William Leader
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Vincent Archer
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Damion Schubert
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Jaycen Rigger
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Christopher D. Chapman
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Jaycen Rigger
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Artur Biesiadowski
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies William Leader
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Kirinyaga
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Adam Spivey
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Jaycen Rigger
- DGN: MMOG Game Economies Christopher D. Chapman